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Article: MIN 7, KC 6: Twins Come Back From 3-Run Deficit

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#61 Mike Sixel

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Posted 04 April 2019 - 10:23 AM

 

Reading a lot of posts that seem to draw some conclusions over a 3 or 5 game span.I agree they should give him more consideration to be a regular based on last year, his winter league season and Spring Training as I stated in the last sentence of first paragraph.They only got him last year, he hit .276 in AAA and then they played him pretty much every game in September. When would the smart team have promoted him?

 

I think being excited about the possibilities is very different than drawing conclusions.......what I read is that people want him to get a chance to show if he is, or is not, a player. All the evidence points to him being a player, and that teams haven't given him a shot because of pre-conceived bias about his body and his pedigree (which is only human nature).

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It's been a fun year so far, GO Twins. Oh, and I have at least one blog post now......The table on my first blog post is now fixed. Sigh.


#62 nicksaviking

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Posted 04 April 2019 - 11:13 AM

 

They promoted him earlier, and didn't have him catch. It was a lost season much earlier than September, no one not planned to be on the roster this year should have played much at all......He also could have played 3B when Sano got hurt.

 

Last year stunk. I'm guessing even though he was under contract, Molitor knew his job was on the line and no matter what Astudillo did, Molitor was going to have a hard time entrusting his future to a guy who's abilities compared to his physique seemed to defy the laws of physics.

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#63 nicksaviking

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Posted 04 April 2019 - 11:15 AM

 

I think being excited about the possibilities is very different than drawing conclusions.......what I read is that people want him to get a chance to show if he is, or is not, a player. All the evidence points to him being a player, and that teams haven't given him a shot because of pre-conceived bias about his body and his pedigree (which is only human nature).

 

Yeah, there will be a point where the hits stop falling, but his track record suggests he'll always be an extreme outlier when it comes to not striking out; that's really valuable from my perspective.

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#64 ashbury

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Posted 04 April 2019 - 12:25 PM

teams haven't given him a shot because of pre-conceived bias about his body and his pedigree (which is only human nature).

It could be that the lack of chances goes deeper than that. For example, as I've said before, the one game I saw of him in person, at AAA last year, I believe I've never witnessed a player make his way out to left field to start an inning slooooower than he did. He didn't happen to get tested there in any meaningful way during the game, so I had only that one small impression to stick with me, and an assumption we'd be dealing with a Josh Willingham-level of skill out there*. There could be other things like that with Willians, I have no idea.

 

Scouts have a deeper repository of views of a player, than my one little observation time, but still little things could stick with a player if seen at the wrong time. Maybe a scout has been burned by players who chose to turn on the effort only at certain times. Vague observations lumped together with a lethal comment like "questions about makeup" could stall a guy's chances in an organization.

 

I don't give much credit to charley hustle types, but I really was perplexed when I saw him, considering what I had heard. The reality, after seeing him several more times on teevee, seems to be a ballplayer with a nose for the ball on defense. I would actually love to see him faced with a challenging play in LF.

 

He may just have had terrible luck in when the people who matter saw him.

 

 

* I always rush to add, Josh's spine was badly damaged by the time we got him, and I don't hold his lack of an all-out effort against him in the slightest. He just was who he was, by that point, and is my benchmark for substandard left field performance that you choose to live with anyway.

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#65 Dantes929

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Posted 04 April 2019 - 01:25 PM

 

Before we punted the season? There were opportunities quite early, when Castro got hurt and then Sano was sent down with Polanco still out. He had power to go with that .276 AVG at AAA too. I would have liked to see him get some regular MLB reps no later than June, when the team could have used a spark.

 

They promoted him earlier, and didn't have him catch. It was a lost season much earlier than September, no one not planned to be on the roster this year should have played much at all......He also could have played 3B when Sano got hurt.

You guys might be right and my memory flawed. When Castro got hurt they wanted to give Garver a shot at full time catcher to see what they had in him. Escobar was our 3rd baseman for 97 games.I I don;t remember the timing of all the injuries and who played when but I also don't really remember the name Willians Astudillo until he came up for a short while in July.I don't think I saw him on any top 30 Twins prospects lists.To me he had a nice minor league career but the Phillies were fine with letting him go. Twins picked him up, he had a pretty nice season in the minors and was promoted where he got 100 major league at bats in the Fall and did really well. Continued with winter ball and ST and is now getting some opportunity and is making the most of it.I think the progression as far as the Twins are concerned has been quite reasonable. I just don't remember anyone calling for his promotion before it happened.Timing is everything. Maybe he gets promoted earlier and a lot of at bats but things don't turn out that great and he is written off. We agree he's not a .382 hitter but that is what he did last September and that is why he is at the top of the radar now. I think things have worked out pretty well so far andhope it continues to work well.  

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#66 jorgenswest

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Posted 04 April 2019 - 01:42 PM

The Twins are the team that gave Astudillo a shot. The Phillies, Braves and DBacks all let him go as a minor league free agent.

Credit to the Twins staff that saw in this journeyman minor leaguer a talent that helps the major league club.
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#67 Riverbrian

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Posted 04 April 2019 - 01:43 PM

 

I saw the getaway day lineup more as a result of the stupid early season schedule than any fixed plan going forward. I’ll be really disappointed if we see that on a regular basis with a roster that includes the flexibility of both Astudillo and Gonzalez.

 

I also made that assumption so I'm not going to officially complain about it. Season just under way and multiple days off mixed in will make it hard for anyone to start with a roll so I can see the reasoning of keeping the lineup consistent.  

 

However... I do reserve the right to complain later if a getaway day lineup becomes a consistent practice. There is normally no justification (in my opinion) for a getaway day lineup. 

 

And... Yeah... we won... so I really can't complain at the moment.:)

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#68 Mike Sixel

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Posted 04 April 2019 - 01:53 PM

 

You guys might be right and my memory flawed. When Castro got hurt they wanted to give Garver a shot at full time catcher to see what they had in him. Escobar was our 3rd baseman for 97 games.I I don;t remember the timing of all the injuries and who played when but I also don't really remember the name Willians Astudillo until he came up for a short while in July.I don't think I saw him on any top 30 Twins prospects lists.To me he had a nice minor league career but the Phillies were fine with letting him go. Twins picked him up, he had a pretty nice season in the minors and was promoted where he got 100 major league at bats in the Fall and did really well. Continued with winter ball and ST and is now getting some opportunity and is making the most of it.I think the progression as far as the Twins are concerned has been quite reasonable. I just don't remember anyone calling for his promotion before it happened.Timing is everything. Maybe he gets promoted earlier and a lot of at bats but things don't turn out that great and he is written off. We agree he's not a .382 hitter but that is what he did last September and that is why he is at the top of the radar now. I think things have worked out pretty well so far andhope it continues to work well.  

 

They are supposed to be smarter than a bunch of random people on a fan site.....

 

I too think things are working out well now. (IIRC, lots of us questioned him not catching in the first call up, LOTS).

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#69 Riverbrian

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Posted 04 April 2019 - 02:20 PM

 

At this point I wouldn't lump Astudillo as part of the get away lineup, if he's not starting somewhere most days I think the fans are going to be frustrated.

 

Schoop hasn't done much yet, it kind of seemed like the right time to give Adrianza a start. Austin was probably due for a start as well. The optics might have been better had he started for Kepler instead of Cron as Cron has been hitting well, but I'm not sure if Austin is going to play OF this year and even if he is Kepler in CF might be the default option all year for when Buxton is out.

 

Anyway, it might have been a getaway lineup, but the bench is solid and I'll be in favor of any rationale that keeps the superior bats of Garver and Astudillo in the lineup over the "starter" Castro.

 

As of this moment.: 5 games into the season. Astudillo was rotated into the lineup as a catcher... Third catcher to get a start... it was game 3. Despite ripping two double in game 3... he was placed on the bench for game 4 and appeared as a pinch hitter... and then appeared in the getaway day lineup for game 5 as a 3B. In my opinion... until Astudillo makes back to back starts... I'm comfortable with him being classified as part of the getaway day crew. However... when you consider how he is hitting right now. He shouldn't be part of that crew. He is out hitting everybody on the roster at this moment. Don't know how long that will last but he is hitting right now so get him in the lineup... it's a no brainer. And this is coming from someone who was OK stashing him in AAA to start the season for depth. He's here now... Play him... he's earning it. 

 

As for Austin... It's a tough call... CJ Cron is playing well right now and I'd want to roll with him in the lineup because he is producing. What we don't know is if Austin would have been producing as well or even producing better. I continue to hope that Baldelli will allow for open competition once the schedule settles down.

 

Austin in the OF? It was a dream of mine but he didn't play a single inning in the OF during spring training so I believe that dream is dead. Austin playing time will have to come at the expense of Cron or Cruz. 

 

As for Adrianaza and throw Cave into the same getaway day crew...I'm all for any of them getting a chance to out perform others to earn more playing time.

 

However... I will never come to grips with any plan that starts your entire bench on the same day. Mix them in with skill and touch according to hot/cold streaks, matchups , basically any data that suggests that you should put them in the lineup. 

 

Let's look at this way... Game Three: The Twins jump out to an 8-0 lead. Lead is considered safe in the 7th inning and then Baldelli inserts, Adrianaza, Austin and Cave into the lineup to get some AB's. This mass substitution didn't happen in Games One, Two or Four when the outcome was in doubt... This leads to the assumption that Baldelli felt that it was SAFE to put the subs in for some reps with a big lead. 

 

Game Five... The Subs all start... It's 0-0 when the game starts... the lead isn't safe... So... Does this mean that Baldelli was willing to sacrifice the win (Game 5) to play all the subs at once? After All, he didn't utilize them until we built up an 8 run lead prior. I'm not saying this is the intention or case but I am asking loudly... what's the justification of a getaway day lineup? You would be better served to mix guys into the lineup instead of jamming them all in on a single day. This is coming from a guy (Me) who wants everybody to play and compete for playing time. 

 

I'm also going to ask this: If you are trying to establish a little rhythm for your "regulars" with multiple off-days... OK... Fine... but then why would you take them out in game three... if your objective is to establish a rhythm for your "regulars". Those AB's they gave up in game three will enhance the purpose of helping them get into a rhythm. 

 

Anyway... I'm making too much noise about this... We are 4-1... Baldelli is getting the job done. I'd just like him to strongly consider the virtue of a "Getaway Day Lineup" and never do it again. We didn't have to jam them all into the 5th game... they could have played one of them Game Two... another one Game Three and Another One Game four and Another one Game five. Spread it out... mix them in. 

 

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#70 Riverbrian

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Posted 04 April 2019 - 02:31 PM

 

You guys might be right and my memory flawed. When Castro got hurt they wanted to give Garver a shot at full time catcher to see what they had in him. Escobar was our 3rd baseman for 97 games.I I don;t remember the timing of all the injuries and who played when but I also don't really remember the name Willians Astudillo until he came up for a short while in July.I don't think I saw him on any top 30 Twins prospects lists.To me he had a nice minor league career but the Phillies were fine with letting him go. Twins picked him up, he had a pretty nice season in the minors and was promoted where he got 100 major league at bats in the Fall and did really well. Continued with winter ball and ST and is now getting some opportunity and is making the most of it.I think the progression as far as the Twins are concerned has been quite reasonable. I just don't remember anyone calling for his promotion before it happened.Timing is everything. Maybe he gets promoted earlier and a lot of at bats but things don't turn out that great and he is written off. We agree he's not a .382 hitter but that is what he did last September and that is why he is at the top of the radar now. I think things have worked out pretty well so far andhope it continues to work well.  

 

Bobby Wilson was our primary catcher for a couple of months after Castro got hurt. 

 

Astudillo was a complete organizational ball drop. When Wilson is your primary catcher... that is the moment that you try anybody else. You can't lock into Wilson and say... that's good enough. An organization can never say that. 

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I'm not a starting 9 guy!!!


#71 Original Whizzinator

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Posted 04 April 2019 - 04:22 PM

I think being excited about the possibilities is very different than drawing conclusions.......what I read is that people want him to get a chance to show if he is, or is not, a player. All the evidence points to him being a player, and that teams haven't given him a shot because of pre-conceived bias about his body and his pedigree (which is only human nature).

I think being excited about the possibilities is very different than drawing conclusions.......what I read is that people want him to get a chance to show if he is, or is not, a player. All the evidence points to him being a player, and that teams haven't given him a shot because of pre-conceived bias about his body and his pedigree (which is only human nature).


Things are very encouraging for me so far. Just seeing three different guys play catcher the first three games and Kepler over Cave in center. There is some flexibility among our players and it is apparent because of not only reputation but usage. Keeping talented guys like Mejia for other roles instead of the usual disappointing suspects. I had a feeling this year would be fun and so far!
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