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Non-Twins 2019 season news

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#41 Vanimal46

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Posted 12 April 2019 - 11:41 AM

Shame on the Braves for taking advantage of Albies and Acuna both. Arbitration was an avenue for the players to fight back against the system. We were on track for $20-30 million arb salaries. The owners prove they still have all of the leverage and taking away that avenue.
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#42 markos

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Posted 12 April 2019 - 12:09 PM

 

Or Acuna won Rookie of the Year, is widely viewed as a generational talent and had a second half last year that would be fitting on the 2017 Twins.

 

Ozzie hit a bunch of home runs in the first half last year and got on the All-Star team in large part because of those home runs (as he had a rough OBP and was walking just 4% of the time. He then followed that with a .226/.282/.342 second half, along with going 3/15 in the postseason series. While Ozzie is a dynamic young player with explosive energy, he's also a guy who shattered his elbow just swinging the bat in 2015.

 

They're best friends, from a similar part of the world, but they aren't equal players, and to pretend like they are is disingenuous at best.

I never meant to imply that they are equal players, which is why I explicitly worded my comment to say "paying in proportion to expected future performance". I do think Acuna is better, but Albies isn't that far off. To put it in the context of Twins players: if Acuna is Joe Mauer, then I think Albies is Morneau in this comparison - clearly the lesser player but also clearly well above average. This contract values Albies like Nick Punto in comparison. Do you really think that Albies is a slightly below-average player going forward?

 

Anyway, I don't think Albies deserves the same contract as Acuna. But I think 70% is way closer to his future value relative to Acuna than the 30% that they implied with their offer.

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#43 Han Joelo

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Posted 12 April 2019 - 12:19 PM

If I was Bryce Harper or Manny Machado or Giancarlo Stanton or any other hundredmillionaire in this league, I would have Gofunded Albies in the short term in return for a potential cut of whatever he might have made in the long term.

 

What I'm thinking is maybe like a form a life insurance or something...basically accept the risk of Albies flaming out by with the hope that in the long run the owners have to shell out a hell of a lot more.


#44 spycake

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Posted 12 April 2019 - 12:42 PM

 

Sal Perez's extension only gave him a minimal pay bump over the existing option years, it mostly just added a few more years.
And he also was already 5 years into the deal.

No one said they're going to give him a massive pay raise during this deal. But a small bump, plus more years, would change the terms.

 

Off the top of my head, Tulowitzki, Longoria, and Braun all signed similar extensions, while they were still under their first big deal.


#45 KirbyDome89

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Posted 12 April 2019 - 02:14 PM

 

They're best friends, from a similar part of the world, but they aren't equal players, and to pretend like they are is disingenuous at best.

The criticism isn't about them being similar players. It's about a FO taking advantage of a broken pay scale, a looming strike, and precarious family situations to leverage each of them into contracts well below their value. There's nothing disingenuous about calling that out. 

 

This is an ownership group and FO that essentially mocked fans after failing to make good on their pledge to spend following the construction of a tax payer funded stadium. If, as you suggest, the Braves are fine with bumping Albies salary down the road then why not just write it in to begin with? The notion that Albies wouldn't desire that, or was totally fine with trusting this organization to make it up to him down the road is ridiculous. 

 

I'm not sure why you continue to carry water for this group on this site....

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#46 ashbury

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Posted 12 April 2019 - 02:30 PM

If I was Bryce Harper or Manny Machado or Giancarlo Stanton or any other hundredmillionaire in this league, I would have Gofunded Albies in the short term in return for a potential cut of whatever he might have made in the long term.

 

What I'm thinking is maybe like a form a life insurance or something...basically accept the risk of Albies flaming out by with the hope that in the long run the owners have to shell out a hell of a lot more.

Assuming this is a bit tongue in cheek, it still represents exactly what ownership is doing. The highest paid players thus are in a position to play in the same financial waters - except of course that league/union rules probably rule out player relationships of that nature, for various good reasons.

It is amazing how many eggs one can break without making a decent omelet.


#47 Han Joelo

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Posted 12 April 2019 - 04:46 PM

 

Assuming this is a bit tongue in cheek, it still represents exactly what ownership is doing. The highest paid players thus are in a position to play in the same financial waters - except of course that league/union rules probably rule out player relationships of that nature, for various good reasons.

It is a bit tongue in cheek, but if this guy really left as much (potential) money on the table as everybody is saying, it seems like some cheeky smart financial types (forget baseball wonks, I'm talking Goldman Sachs interns) would figurate out a way to create a financial investment vehicle a la sub-prime mortgages or some other arcane deal that could somehow benefit both the investor and the player.  But not the owner.

 

Oh, who am I kidding.  The rich get rich, the poor stay poor, that's how it goes.  Everybody knows.

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#48 ashbury

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Posted 12 April 2019 - 05:01 PM

It is a bit tongue in cheek, but if this guy really left as much (potential) money on the table as everybody is saying, it seems like some cheeky smart financial types (forget baseball wonks, I'm talking Goldman Sachs interns) would figurate out a way to create a financial investment vehicle a la sub-prime mortgages or some other arcane deal that could somehow benefit both the investor and the player. But not the owner.


It's all fun and games until someone hits .215 one year and gets both kneecaps broken as a consequence. :)
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It is amazing how many eggs one can break without making a decent omelet.


#49 biggentleben

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Posted 12 April 2019 - 10:48 PM

The criticism isn't about them being similar players. It's about a FO taking advantage of a broken pay scale, a looming strike, and precarious family situations to leverage each of them into contracts well below their value. There's nothing disingenuous about calling that out.

This is an ownership group and FO that essentially mocked fans after failing to make good on their pledge to spend following the construction of a tax payer funded stadium. If, as you suggest, the Braves are fine with bumping Albies salary down the road then why not just write it in to begin with? The notion that Albies wouldn't desire that, or was totally fine with trusting this organization to make it up to him down the road is ridiculous.

I'm not sure why you continue to carry water for this group on this site....


I’m a Braves fan. I live in the area of the Twins. Therefore, I have been chatting baseball (and other topics) with many around here for ~20 years online. I’ll continue to be a Braves fan, though I’ve put myself in the position of writing for multiple outlets that gave me great connections within the game, but also required my allegiance not be a focus in my writing.

With those connections, I can tell you flat out that Liberty has been reinvesting heavily in the club. The scouting, training, and analytics departments have all been significantly beefed up since Anthopoulos cane on board. He also had the green light to be very aggressive in the trade market, and they were, including a monster offer with the Twins, but none of their targets would work in their price range, something both Anthopoulos and AJ Preller lamented this winter. Essentially, no club should ever seriously be talking a trade of player for prospects with both the Braves and the Cubs. If they are, I’ll guarantee the ask is significantly more in player value from the Braves just because “they could afford to lose it”. Even though deals weren’t made, I have on very good authority that lines are still open on a pair of their moves since the season began (not the Twins deal, which is off the table - for now). The Braves are certainly going to be aggressive in trading.

Braves Twitter is well-known throughout the game and has been quite critical of not signing particular free agents, but that was never AA’s modus operandi in previous positions. He’s always pursued trades and locking up top players in house for the long term. The team, through a rebuild, has set team-record Opening Day and record End of Year payrolls 7 times combined since beginning the rebuild after 2014, so the team is spending as much or more on payroll as ever as well as dumping big money into other areas of the team.

I’d love to see them dump big money into minor leaguers as well, but one thing I’m working on right now is something leaked to me by a FO financial person that said the way the bills have been set up in Congress, teams based in the USA would be violating the law their own league lobbied into existence. It’s why the one team who’s gone above and beyond standard practices is the one MLB team based in Canada.

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#50 biggentleben

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Posted 12 April 2019 - 10:52 PM

No one said they're going to give him a massive pay raise during this deal. But a small bump, plus more years, would change the terms.

Off the top of my head, Tulowitzki, Longoria, and Braun all signed similar extensions, while they were still under their first big deal.


Trout’s deal was a year before he hit. Altuve’s big deal was before he finished his first deal (which paid him much less though he’d accomplished more than Albies when signing his first deal). It happens quite a bit. Heck, on the Braves currently, Freddie Freeman was in the midst of a multi-year deal when they signed his current extension.

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#51 biggentleben

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Posted 12 April 2019 - 11:07 PM

Shame on the Braves for taking advantage of Albies and Acuna both. Arbitration was an avenue for the players to fight back against the system. We were on track for $20-30 million arb salaries. The owners prove they still have all of the leverage and taking away that avenue.


Less than 10 years ago, all the smart baseball minds were ripping teams for not keeping their own. Teams added a few things in the most recent CBA that make extensions a very wise financial choice, and now they’re coming left and right (David Bote got a long-term extension...David freaking Bote!), ad ownership is the devil for ever accepting a guy’s deal.

Andrew Jones walked into John Schuerholz’s office and outlined the contract he wanted. JS called in team reps to draw up what Andrew was saying, and he signed it. His agent was not involved, and he actually sought different representation soon after due to being threatened of being dropped as a client by his old agency. Jones was already a 3-time Gold Glover and had just hit .300 for what would be the only time in his career. He would have easily garnered 10 years and $200 million at that time as a free agent, hitting free agency as young or younger than Bryce and Manny just did. Not one soul ripped him for the deal or the team for taking advantage of him. He signed with Scott Boras after leaving his previous agency and was able to get a very nice deal in free agency still.

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#52 Mr. Brooks

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Posted 13 April 2019 - 04:20 AM

There isn't a business that's ever existed that would voluntarily pay an employee more than they thought they had to in order to retain his/her services.

I don't know why we are specifically ripping the Braves for doing what a business is supposed to do. If we don't like it, we should be ripping the players union for allowing teams such significant leverage.

#53 biggentleben

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Posted 13 April 2019 - 08:06 AM

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#54 Vanimal46

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Posted 14 April 2019 - 10:20 AM

Chris Davis got a hit yesterday! Snapping an 0-54 hitless streak.
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#55 spycake

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Posted 14 April 2019 - 10:57 AM

Chris Davis got a hit yesterday! Snapping an 0-54 hitless streak.


3 hits, no less. When it rains, it pours!

#56 jkcarew

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Posted 14 April 2019 - 10:58 AM

 

Chris Davis got a hit yesterday! Snapping an 0-54 hitless streak.

I'm genuinely happy for him. Never fun to watch someone fail at that scale.

And Orioles fans can cheer up. There's only a little over 3.9 years left on that contract.


#57 Danchat

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Posted 14 April 2019 - 03:48 PM

I can't resist putting up former Twins statlines, and here's a couple relievers who are off to great starts.

 

The Marlins have both Nick Anderson and Tyler Kinley (Yes, THAT Kinley!) in their bullpen, and in a very small sample size:

 

Kinley 7.2 IP, 1.17 ERA, 9.4 K/9, 0.78 WHIP, 3.93 FIP

Anderson 6.2 IP, 1.35 ERA, 18.9 K/9 (!!), 1.05 WHIP, -0.16 FIP

 

Yes, Anderson has so many strikeouts that his FIP is in the negatives! I didn't even know that was possible! Obviously these two are unlikely to continue these numbers, but I'm surprised that Kinley is already in the majors and looking far, far better in his first few outings than he did with us last year.

 

Meanwhile, let's see how a couple more former Twin relievers, Randy Rosario and JT Chargois are doing:

 

Rosario: 5 IP, 7.20 ERA, 12.6 K/9, 2.0 WHIP, 4.75 FIP

Chargois gave up 2 runs in 1.2 IP and was demoted to Dodgers' AAA. I thought he was out of options, but apparently he had another year. Despite his troubles, I wish we'd save a roster spot for him instead of holding onto Duffey for far too long.

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#58 KirbyDome89

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Posted 14 April 2019 - 11:04 PM

 

I’m a Braves fan. I live in the area of the Twins. Therefore, I have been chatting baseball (and other topics) with many around here for ~20 years online. I’ll continue to be a Braves fan, though I’ve put myself in the position of writing for multiple outlets that gave me great connections within the game, but also required my allegiance not be a focus in my writing.

With those connections, I can tell you flat out that Liberty has been reinvesting heavily in the club. The scouting, training, and analytics departments have all been significantly beefed up since Anthopoulos cane on board. He also had the green light to be very aggressive in the trade market, and they were, including a monster offer with the Twins, but none of their targets would work in their price range, something both Anthopoulos and AJ Preller lamented this winter. Essentially, no club should ever seriously be talking a trade of player for prospects with both the Braves and the Cubs. If they are, I’ll guarantee the ask is significantly more in player value from the Braves just because “they could afford to lose it”. Even though deals weren’t made, I have on very good authority that lines are still open on a pair of their moves since the season began (not the Twins deal, which is off the table - for now). The Braves are certainly going to be aggressive in trading.

Braves Twitter is well-known throughout the game and has been quite critical of not signing particular free agents, but that was never AA’s modus operandi in previous positions. He’s always pursued trades and locking up top players in house for the long term. The team, through a rebuild, has set team-record Opening Day and record End of Year payrolls 7 times combined since beginning the rebuild after 2014, so the team is spending as much or more on payroll as ever as well as dumping big money into other areas of the team.

I’d love to see them dump big money into minor leaguers as well, but one thing I’m working on right now is something leaked to me by a FO financial person that said the way the bills have been set up in Congress, teams based in the USA would be violating the law their own league lobbied into existence. It’s why the one team who’s gone above and beyond standard practices is the one MLB team based in Canada.

I'm not questioning why you frequent TD. I'm questioning why you consistently shill for an ownership group that seemingly has little interest in financially supporting the on field product, after securing a new stadium via a backroom deal, promising spending last offseason, failing to deliver on that promise, and then openly mocking their fanbase that's on the hook for 2/3 of said stadium. If it's an issue of access and public presence then we can agree to disagree and leave it at that. 

 

They're investing heavily in real estate development surrounding their tax payer funded stadium. That's completely separate from baseball operations. The Brave's payroll has more or less stayed the same for the last few seasons, but their revenue has jumped from $262M in 16' to $442M in 18'. That's nearly double. Are we really supposed to believe hundreds of millions are being poured into this team behind the scenes? C'mon...They're using baseball revenue to pay down real estate debt/interest in order to take on future debt for the next phase of development. 

 

The bottom line is Anthopoulos didn't get any trades done, and whether or not it's his m.o. he didn't do much in FA to bolster a team that won their division the previous year. Their FO shouldn't get credit for making inquiries or being involved in talks. The record payroll thing is as hollow for Atlanta as it was for MN last year. Waiving the "record payroll," flag while spending actually decreases relative to revenue is the ultimate straw man. Is it any surprise either that without a kickback from the BAMTech sale their payroll fell this year?  

 

Owners lobbied it into existence so they wouldn't be forced to pay down the road. That doesn't somehow absolve them in the present, in fact it's an even worse look. 

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#59 Mike Sixel

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Posted 15 April 2019 - 09:05 AM

I'm very happy for Mr Davis. Phew.

It's been a fun year so far, GO Twins. Oh, and I have at least one blog post now......The table on my first blog post is now fixed. Sigh.


#60 biggentleben

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Posted 15 April 2019 - 10:18 PM

 

I'm not questioning why you frequent TD. I'm questioning why you consistently shill for an ownership group that seemingly has little interest in financially supporting the on field product, after securing a new stadium via a backroom deal, promising spending last offseason, failing to deliver on that promise, and then openly mocking their fanbase that's on the hook for 2/3 of said stadium. If it's an issue of access and public presence then we can agree to disagree and leave it at that. 

 

They're investing heavily in real estate development surrounding their tax payer funded stadium. That's completely separate from baseball operations. The Brave's payroll has more or less stayed the same for the last few seasons, but their revenue has jumped from $262M in 16' to $442M in 18'. That's nearly double. Are we really supposed to believe hundreds of millions are being poured into this team behind the scenes? C'mon...They're using baseball revenue to pay down real estate debt/interest in order to take on future debt for the next phase of development. 

 

The bottom line is Anthopoulos didn't get any trades done, and whether or not it's his m.o. he didn't do much in FA to bolster a team that won their division the previous year. Their FO shouldn't get credit for making inquiries or being involved in talks. The record payroll thing is as hollow for Atlanta as it was for MN last year. Waiving the "record payroll," flag while spending actually decreases relative to revenue is the ultimate straw man. Is it any surprise either that without a kickback from the BAMTech sale their payroll fell this year?  

 

Owners lobbied it into existence so they wouldn't be forced to pay down the road. That doesn't somehow absolve them in the present, in fact it's an even worse look. 

 

And this is the crux of Braves Twitter. Do you read Deadspin, Mark Bowman, or have your own sources? Because there is a varying opinion depending on each group. I fall into the latter. They signed the largest single-year contract value in team history this winter and looked to add plenty more. It didn't work for multiple reasons, but I also know that they're still actively pursuing deals in April. The pure revenue is not parsed out, simply reported as a big number to engage comments just like this.

 

It's really not worth the argument.

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