Jump to content

Providing independent coverage of the Minnesota Twins.
Subscribe to Twins Daily Email
Photo

Eloy Jimenez Near 6-Year, $43 million deal

  • Please log in to reply
20 replies to this topic

#1 Seth Stohs

Seth Stohs

    Owner

  • Administrators
  • 16,945 posts

Posted 20 March 2019 - 01:09 PM

According to many reports, including Ken Rosenthal, the White Sox are nearing a deal that would pay top prospect Eloy Jimenez $43 million over the next six years with two options that could bring the deal to about $75-77 million.

 

Jimenez has not played in the big leagues yet. He is a Top 3 prospect in any national ranking. 

 

But the team is taking on a large majority of the risk here.

 

He could be paid about $2 million through his first three years of service by going year to year. That means he'll be making approximately $41 million over his three arbitration seasons. That's not team-friendly.

 

Where I think the team gets the value is with the team option years that could be worth another $30 million. If he''s so good that they pick them up,, it likely means he''s probably worth more than the $15 million he would get those two years.

 

Definitely interesting, and definitely something to monitor for Twins fans.

 

The Twins have two Top 10 national prospects in Royce Lewis and Alex Kirilloff. While Scott Boras is the agent for both and likely wouldn't want to do that deal, it is interesting to think about.

 

Or, from another angle when the Twins had a couple of Top 10 prospects a few years ago, Byron Buxton and Miguel Sano, what if they would have signed a similar deal?

 

 

  • dbminn likes this

#2 Vanimal46

Vanimal46

    Opener Poster

  • Members
  • 11,585 posts
  • LocationAustin, TX

Posted 20 March 2019 - 02:08 PM

Worked out pretty well for them last time with Tim Anderson.
  • blindeke and tarheeltwinsfan like this

#3 darin617

darin617

    Senior Member

  • Members
  • 1,304 posts

Posted 20 March 2019 - 02:10 PM

Horrible idea giving players extensions before they have even made it to the majors.

 

Houston gave Jon Singleton $10M for 5 years and he was a top prospect and failed badly. It's not my money but they will look bad if he either can't hit at the major league level or his fielding and throwing are bad.


#4 nicksaviking

nicksaviking

    Billy G.O.A.T

  • Twins Mods
  • 13,548 posts

Posted 20 March 2019 - 02:15 PM

Come on White Sox, now you're trying to make me cheer against a young man before even makes the majors? That just makes me feel bad; dirty move.

 

  • ScrapTheNickname, Oldgoat_MN and Taildragger8791 like this

#5 markos

markos

    Senior Member

  • Members
  • 1,358 posts

Posted 20 March 2019 - 02:46 PM

Seth, I think you are overstating the risk and understating the potential team-friendliness of this deal. While the exact terms haven't been released yet, I think it is likely that $42M will be spread over the 6 years much more evenly than you suggested. Also, Jimenez would likely end up being super-2 eligible, so he would have 4 arbitration years rather than the 3 that you suggested. Anyway, my guess is that Jimenez gets a decent signing bonus as part of this deal, and that his salaries during what would have been his arbitration seasons average less than $10M / year. From a team standpoint, that is certainly preferable to what the Indians, Red Sox, Cubs, et al are dealing with as their young superstar players are getting $15M+ in arbitration. The White Sox have a ton of payroll space available right now - shifting future spending to the present makes a lot of sense for them.

  • spycake, Dman, blindeke and 2 others like this

#6 nicksaviking

nicksaviking

    Billy G.O.A.T

  • Twins Mods
  • 13,548 posts

Posted 20 March 2019 - 03:13 PM

The White Sox may be banking against some rough arbitration numbers down the road, but Jimenez already got demoted, so unless he's called ASAP, they're only buying out one free agent year.

 

Buying one free agent year doesn't usually get me excited, I'd want two or more. The White Sox must really be banking on him becoming a star. 

 

Based on their recent track record with their prospects, they should probably get an outside consultant to make this call for them.

  • markos likes this

#7 spycake

spycake

    Senior Member

  • Members
  • 15,057 posts

Posted 20 March 2019 - 04:39 PM

 

Horrible idea giving players extensions before they have even made it to the majors.

 

Houston gave Jon Singleton $10M for 5 years and he was a top prospect and failed badly.

...and the Singleton deal didn't harm the Astros at all.

  • Danchat likes this

#8 spycake

spycake

    Senior Member

  • Members
  • 15,057 posts

Posted 20 March 2019 - 04:49 PM

 

Jimenez already got demoted, so unless he's called ASAP, they're only buying out one free agent year.

 

Buying one free agent year doesn't usually get me excited, I'd want two or more.

This is all true, but buying out a FA year -- with a team option, no less -- is still a pretty good outcome after playing service time games.

  • Vanimal46 likes this

#9 Mr. Brooks

Mr. Brooks

    Senior Member

  • Members
  • 6,725 posts

Posted 20 March 2019 - 05:49 PM

Horrible idea giving players extensions before they have even made it to the majors.

Houston gave Jon Singleton $10M for 5 years and he was a top prospect and failed badly. It's not my money but they will look bad if he either can't hit at the major league level or his fielding and throwing are bad.


Or it could work out great for the team, as it did with the Rays and Evan Longoria.
  • Mike Sixel likes this

#10 dbminn

dbminn

    Pensacola Blue Wahoos

  • Members
  • 637 posts
  • LocationSaint Paul, MN

Posted 20 March 2019 - 05:59 PM

 

From a team standpoint, that is certainly preferable to what the Indians, Red Sox, Cubs, et al are dealing with as their young superstar players are getting $15M+ in arbitration. The White Sox have a ton of payroll space available right now - shifting future spending to the present makes a lot of sense for them.

 

I'm not sure I would sign a player before he's played a day in the majors, but Markos makes a really good point: The Sox have the space to pay him more now than later on.

 

The Sox may also be using this contract as insurance against the next bargaining agreement. There's a chance that the agreement will reduce their years of control.

 

Finally, they no longer have any reason to keep him in the minors to start the 2019 season.

  • Mike Sixel, Oldgoat_MN, Vanimal46 and 1 other like this

#11 Mike Sixel

Mike Sixel

    Now living in Oregon

  • Members
  • 28,752 posts

Posted 20 March 2019 - 06:08 PM

I'm not sure I would sign a player before he's played a day in the majors, but Markos makes a really good point: The Sox have the space to pay him more now than later on.

The Sox may also be using this contract as insurance against the next bargaining agreement. There's a chance that the agreement will reduce their years of control.

Finally, they no longer have any reason to keep him in the minors to start the 2019 season.


That middle paragraph is prophetic, I'd guess.
  • dbminn likes this

It's IL now, btw, not DL.....


#12 tarheeltwinsfan

tarheeltwinsfan

    Senior Member

  • Members
  • 970 posts

Posted 20 March 2019 - 06:36 PM

 

Horrible idea giving players extensions before they have even made it to the majors.

 

Houston gave Jon Singleton $10M for 5 years and he was a top prospect and failed badly. It's not my money but they will look bad if he either can't hit at the major league level or his fielding and throwing are bad.

Or if he loses his incentive and just doesn't give it his best efforts.


#13 darin617

darin617

    Senior Member

  • Members
  • 1,304 posts

Posted 21 March 2019 - 12:28 PM

Just think how this would look if the Twins did this for Buxton & Sano before they made it to the majors.


#14 Mike Sixel

Mike Sixel

    Now living in Oregon

  • Members
  • 28,752 posts

Posted 21 March 2019 - 12:31 PM

 

Just think how this would look if the Twins did this for Buxton & Sano before they made it to the majors.

 

think how it would look if the Sox did it when Betts was in this position?

 

We can play this game all day.

  • Twins33, Dantes929, Danchat and 1 other like this

It's IL now, btw, not DL.....


#15 markos

markos

    Senior Member

  • Members
  • 1,358 posts

Posted 25 March 2019 - 07:00 AM

I'm sure I'm the only person who cares at this point, but the White Sox released the terms of Jimenez's deal:

 

The deal is now official. The South Siders revealed all the terms. Jimenez gets a $5MM signing bonus and salaries of $1MM (2019), $1.5MM (2020), $3.5MM (2021), $6.5MM (2022), $9.5MM (2023), and $13MM (2024). There’s a $3MM buyout that applies to either of the options, which are priced at $16.5MM and $18.5MM, respectively.

https://www.mlbtrade...oy-jimenez.html

 

Large signing bonus and very reasonable arbitration costs, which is more or less what I expected the structure to look like. Some risk for the White Sox - certainly more than most early long-term deals - but it should have minimal financial impact should Jimenez fail to produce.

  • Dman and Vanimal46 like this

#16 Dantes929

Dantes929

    Senior Member

  • Members
  • 2,243 posts

Posted 25 March 2019 - 07:53 AM

 

think how it would look if the Sox did it when Betts was in this position?

 

We can play this game all day.

We could have offered Nick Punto a 7 year deal when he joined our team at league minimum and he probably would have taken it and it would have saved us $10 mil and 1 trillion posts complaining about him. I guess we can do this all day..

 If you build a man a fire, he'll be warm for a day.

If you set a man on fire, he'll be warm for the rest of his life.


#17 Vanimal46

Vanimal46

    Opener Poster

  • Members
  • 11,585 posts
  • LocationAustin, TX

Posted 25 March 2019 - 08:25 AM

I'm sure I'm the only person who cares at this point, but the White Sox released the terms of Jimenez's deal:
https://www.mlbtrade...oy-jimenez.html

Large signing bonus and very reasonable arbitration costs, which is more or less what I expected the structure to look like. Some risk for the White Sox - certainly more than most early long-term deals - but it should have minimal financial impact should Jimenez fail to produce.


Makes a ton of sense for Chicago to have cost certainty. They wouldn't make a deal like this if they weren't confident in his ability.

#18 spycake

spycake

    Senior Member

  • Members
  • 15,057 posts

Posted 25 March 2019 - 08:33 AM

 

We could have offered Nick Punto a 7 year deal when he joined our team at league minimum and he probably would have taken it and it would have saved us $10 mil and 1 trillion posts complaining about him. I guess we can do this all day..

I realize this is a joke, but I thought it was an interesting idea...

 

I don't think Punto would have taken that deal -- he had already banked a little money and service time with the Phillies, and was likely almost out of options, which means the Twins couldn't really keep him off the 25-man roster much longer. I think he was reasonably confident he was going to play in MLB the next couple seasons, somewhere.

 

Franky, I don't think you could get anyone to take such a deal, unless they were pretty thoroughly a non-prospect, and/or rather old. (Or really young, like a guy who is at least 3-4 years away from MLB anyway, in which case it likely wouldn't affect their potential arbitration seasons. But then it would put them on the 40-man roster immediately, and MLB clubs wouldn't want to do that either.)


#19 Dantes929

Dantes929

    Senior Member

  • Members
  • 2,243 posts

Posted 25 March 2019 - 09:00 AM

 

I realize this is a joke, but I thought it was an interesting idea...

 

I don't think Punto would have taken that deal -- he had already banked a little money and service time with the Phillies, and was likely almost out of options, which means the Twins couldn't really keep him off the 25-man roster much longer. I think he was reasonably confident he was going to play in MLB the next couple seasons, somewhere.

 

Franky, I don't think you could get anyone to take such a deal, unless they were pretty thoroughly a non-prospect, and/or rather old. (Or really young, like a guy who is at least 3-4 years away from MLB anyway, in which case it likely wouldn't affect their potential arbitration seasons. But then it would put them on the 40-man roster immediately, and MLB clubs wouldn't want to do that either.)

I don't know. His ceiling was never considered that high and he wouldn't have got those two nice contracts if they didn't coincide with his two best years offensively which only happenstance even allowed him the opportunity to have. Guarantee of 3 mil over 7 years would have to have been tempting since he must have seen plenty of similar players get a taste and then never heard from again. I know in a similar situation I would have been tempted. 3 mil is still an awful lot of money to most people and even more so 15 years ago. The odds of him making over 10 mil at that point couldn't have been better than 1 in 10.

 If you build a man a fire, he'll be warm for a day.

If you set a man on fire, he'll be warm for the rest of his life.


#20 spycake

spycake

    Senior Member

  • Members
  • 15,057 posts

Posted 25 March 2019 - 01:45 PM

 

I don't know. His ceiling was never considered that high and he wouldn't have got those two nice contracts if they didn't coincide with his two best years offensively which only happenstance even allowed him the opportunity to have. Guarantee of 3 mil over 7 years would have to have been tempting since he must have seen plenty of similar players get a taste and then never heard from again. I know in a similar situation I would have been tempted. 3 mil is still an awful lot of money to most people and even more so 15 years ago. The odds of him making over 10 mil at that point couldn't have been better than 1 in 10.

By the time the Twins acquired Punto, he apparently already had 1 season plus 51 days service time, per B-Ref (he spent most of 2003 on the Phillies roster, plus cups of coffee in 2001 and 2002). So he had already made about $400k, was vested in the pension, and had lifetime healthcare -- he could afford to bet on himself a little bit.

 

With Hocking and Gomez gone, he probably figured he'd spend most of his first season in Minnesota too, so he could expect another $300k too. Another half season of service time on top of that and he'd get a raise through arbitration. And he had just turned 26 years old, so he probably didn't see himself near the end of the line -- if the Twins didn't want him, he'd probably get more MLB chances as a utility guy to collect more minimum salaries elsewhere.

 

The Phillies may have had a better chance at such a deal, a couple years earlier -- but a team even offering such a deal would be a strong clue to the player that he's valued enough to spend a few years in MLB even without signing the deal. I just can't see this working.