No one thought he was that good.
He was the third best Twin's prospect at the beginning of last year.
Top 7 or so in 2016.
Somebody must have thought that, or the Twins prospects have been WAY over rated the last few year?
Posted 07 February 2019 - 11:12 AM
No one thought he was that good.
He was the third best Twin's prospect at the beginning of last year.
Top 7 or so in 2016.
Somebody must have thought that, or the Twins prospects have been WAY over rated the last few year?
Posted 07 February 2019 - 11:17 AM
Our rankings:
Seth (6), Nick (8), Tom (13), Cody (7).
Curious what he has changed or gotten better in the Twins organization that he wasn't that highly rated in Arizona but is here?
Hoping it is more than he was traded for Escobar or the 7 inning no hitter he threw.
Posted 07 February 2019 - 11:46 AM
He was the third best Twin's prospect at the beginning of last year.
Top 7 or so in 2016.
Somebody must have thought that, or the Twins prospects have been WAY over rated the last few year?
He was a BA top 100 prospect in 2017 and 2018... so if he was overrated, it was by all... but I also think that leads to the point that we need to be a bit patient with him. Not every prospect hits the ground running (see Berrios, Jose). There's still time for him to put it together.
Posted 07 February 2019 - 12:45 PM
It's especially interesting to peek at these rankings against Keith Law's recent list; there's a pretty significant divergence all over the place (except for the top 2). Law is calling Duran a one pitch guy and definitely sees him as a reliever.
I wonder how much of the differences are based in proximity (TD guys might have more granular detail) and how much in preference (everyone may value things differently in prospects). But KLaw definitely agrees more with Tom on Duran...
Posted 07 February 2019 - 12:56 PM
He was the third best Twin's prospect at the beginning of last year.
Top 7 or so in 2016.
Somebody must have thought that, or the Twins prospects have been WAY over rated the last few year?
Nope, no expert has ever thought Gonsalves was a front end guy. Maybe a few fans did.
When Gonzo was 3rd in TD's rankings, the system was at best a top 10 system. This year, it's a top 5ish system. In retrospect, his #3 ranking was probably generous.
He fell for two main reasons: one, because a whole slew of prospects have surged for legitimate reasons, Graterol being a prime case in point, and two, he's probably lost some luster because of his rough start in MLB and the things his debut illuminated to reinforce the expert views that he probably settles in as a back end guy if he fixes his remaining skill deficiencies.
I think you'd be reaching for something that's not there to conclude what you're suggesting.
Posted 07 February 2019 - 01:52 PM
He is hungry like the wolf
Posted 07 February 2019 - 02:00 PM
He was a BA top 100 prospect in 2017 and 2018... so if he was overrated, it was by all... but I also think that leads to the point that we need to be a bit patient with him. Not every prospect hits the ground running (see Berrios, Jose). There's still time for him to put it together.
I think his stuff would play just fine.In 2017 he was sitting at 2.4 BB/9. In 2018 it was 4.8 in the minors and 8.00 in the majors.Sandy Koufax couldn't succeed at 8 walks per 9.I thought his arm was live with decent stuff (granted I was just judging by the TV screen) but he was all over the place. I still have hopes that he will be better than just back of rotation but that walk rate has to get below 3.
Posted 07 February 2019 - 02:01 PM
It's especially interesting to peek at these rankings against Keith Law's recent list; there's a pretty significant divergence all over the place (except for the top 2). Law is calling Duran a one pitch guy and definitely sees him as a reliever.
I wonder how much of the differences are based in proximity (TD guys might have more granular detail) and how much in preference (everyone may value things differently in prospects). But KLaw definitely agrees more with Tom on Duran...
Sometimes I hate how Law stunts my optimism on certain prospects but I have learned he is right more often than wrong.Duran is young and has a good fastball but like most young pitchers his secondaries are suspect.So I can see where Law is coming from.Also it isn't often that we are treated to a minor league no hitter for seven innings by one of our pitchers so I think seeing what we saw makes us more optimistic than most.
We will just have to wait and see what happens.Law did not see Berrios being a top of the rotation starter this early either.It took a lot of development before Law came around on him.Duran has the fastball so a little development and he can be a top of the rotation piece as well.Just have to hope he can figure things out.
Posted 07 February 2019 - 02:19 PM
Nope, no expert has ever thought Gonsalves was a front end guy. Maybe a few fans did.
When Gonzo was 3rd in TD's rankings, the system was at best a top 10 system. This year, it's a top 5ish system. In retrospect, his #3 ranking was probably generous.
He fell for two main reasons: one, because a whole slew of prospects have surged for legitimate reasons, Graterol being a prime case in point, and two, he's probably lost some luster because of his rough start in MLB and the things his debut illuminated to reinforce the expert views that he probably settles in as a back end guy if he fixes his remaining skill deficiencies.
I think you'd be reaching for something that's not there to conclude what you're suggesting.
So I was replying to the following:
"Problem is that not so long ago Gonsalves was thought of as a for sure #3 and possibly a #2."
Not sure when #3 and possibly #2 is considered front end guy?
My only real point is there is no way a prospect should ever be rated as a teams third overall prospect or a top 100 list if his ceiling is a 4 or 5 starter.
Posted 07 February 2019 - 02:47 PM
Clear over-ranking I think.
If you ain't got no haters, you ain't poppin'.
Posted 07 February 2019 - 03:35 PM
So I was replying to the following:
"Problem is that not so long ago Gonsalves was thought of as a for sure #3 and possibly a #2."
Not sure when #3 and possibly #2 is considered front end guy?
My only real point is there is no way a prospect should ever be rated as a teams third overall prospect or a top 100 list if his ceiling is a 4 or 5 starter.
I think it's a bit too soon to say his ceiling is a 4/5... In Gonsalves case, his floor is looking like a reliver or a AAAA type, so yeah, I think if he can make the right changes, he can certainly end up as a better than average SP... that's not necessarily a 1 or 2, but still a pretty good pitcher.
Back to Duran, yeah, he's a bit high. I'd have Thorpe rated higher, that's for sure. But the stuff is good enough that you have to pay attention. He will definitely be on the must watch list this year.
Posted 07 February 2019 - 04:20 PM
Posted 07 February 2019 - 06:13 PM
Posted 07 February 2019 - 08:56 PM
Posted 07 February 2019 - 09:59 PM
--Lou Brown
Posted 07 February 2019 - 11:24 PM
Is there some way, Seth, that you all can factor in the probability of player X reaching his ceiling.Kind of like going to Vegas and throwing the dice, knowing there is a 20% probability of X happening and a 30% probability of Y happening.
Not all potential front of the rotation starters are the same.You may think that Graterol, for example, has a 30% chance of reaching his ceiling.Whereas, you may think that Duran has a 10% chance of reaching his ceiling with both having ceilings of an ACE.
Has anyone attempted to do something like this?
Baseball HQs Minor League Analyst does something like that. They give a Grade for ceiling. something like 10 = Hall of Famer, 9 = regular All Star, 1 = AA... something like that. But then they give an Grade related to likelihood of reaching that potential.
Posted 07 February 2019 - 11:28 PM
Curious what he has changed or gotten better in the Twins organization that he wasn't that highly rated in Arizona but is here?
Hoping it is more than he was traded for Escobar or the 7 inning no hitter he threw.
For me, it's the 6-5 and 220. It's the 94-98 mph fastball. Potentially four pitches. Young. Video of his stuff. and more. Also, I saw him on a mid-season Top 10 guy for Arizona from a couple of places I went to. Not that that meant anything in my personal ranking or evaluation, but it was there.
Posted 07 February 2019 - 11:31 PM
He was the third best Twin's prospect at the beginning of last year.
Top 7 or so in 2016.
Somebody must have thought that, or the Twins prospects have been WAY over rated the last few year?
Or the system is stronger.
It's also reality that as players move up the ladder, there are a lot more data points to evaluate.
I fully admit... I had his ceiling as a number 3 starter who had the potential to have a couple of seasons that might qualify as a #2 type season.
His 2018 debut didn't convince me that he can't still be that,though the likelihood is maybe more that he's a #4 with an upside as a #3.
Posted 07 February 2019 - 11:34 PM
It's especially interesting to peek at these rankings against Keith Law's recent list; there's a pretty significant divergence all over the place (except for the top 2). Law is calling Duran a one pitch guy and definitely sees him as a reliever.
I wonder how much of the differences are based in proximity (TD guys might have more granular detail) and how much in preference (everyone may value things differently in prospects). But KLaw definitely agrees more with Tom on Duran...
1.) I don't look at any other rankings before doing my list. It's my list. I don't want to be swayed by others.
2.) Keith Law ranked Jordan Balazovic as the #3 Twins prospect.
Posted 08 February 2019 - 03:22 AM
I understand your argument, but at some point there has to be a balance between stuff and statistics. I was disappointed to see that Gonsalves tops out at 91, doesn't have pitches that can strike out MLB hitters, and also has poor command. It's not that I've totally given up on him, but he looks to be a 5th starter or a decent reliever if things go right in my eyes. He's done a great job in the minors, but unlike Berrios I don't know if his stuff will let him be more than a AAAA pitcher.
Conversely, if Duran can put things together, he has the stuff to be a great starter. I could see him being a #2 starter if everything goes right, though mostly throughout his career, it hasn't gone right.
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