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Article: Who's the Fourth Outfielder?

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#61 snepp

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Posted 06 February 2019 - 11:19 PM

 

I wish we had a right-handed Jake Cave.

 

Dustan Mohr is only 42-years-young.

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#62 USAFChief

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Posted 07 February 2019 - 06:49 AM

 

Probably because it isn't uncommon for a power spike to occur in a player's late 20s. And that is basically all Granite needs to be a productive big leaguer. 

Granite's career MiLB OPS is .708. He's never going to be a "productive big leaguer."

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#63 spycake

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Posted 07 February 2019 - 08:14 AM

Despite having Buxton, Rosario, Kepler, Cave, Wade, Reed, Kirilloff, Lanarch, Badoo, and more, and OF always being available in FA....

The team needs to be taking chances on pitchers. Imo. They literally have Berrios and, um, no one else proven, under control past this year. And the RP corps isn't in much better shape.


But that also means there is still plenty of chaff to cut on the pitching side too -- why single out Granite? It's not like Granite, or Duffey, or whomever is holding the FO back on external upgrades anyway.

#64 spycake

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Posted 07 February 2019 - 08:23 AM

Granite's career MiLB OPS is .708. He's never going to be a "productive big leaguer."


Span's was .718, and that includes his breakout repeating AAA.

#65 markos

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Posted 07 February 2019 - 01:18 PM

 

Despite having Buxton, Rosario, Kepler, Cave, Wade, Reed, Kirilloff, Lanarch, Badoo, and more, and OF always being available in FA....

The team needs to be taking chances on pitchers. Imo. They literally have Berrios and, um, no one else proven, under control past this year. And the RP corps isn't in much better shape.

I don't disagree with your point about pitching, and I'm not going to go to the ramparts in order to keep Granite on the roster at all costs. If they claim a pitcher with some decent upside, or if they sign a veteran, I'm not going to throw a fuss if they waive Granite to make space. He isn't my personal #40 guy on the roster, but he is probably #37 or so. Anyway, at some level they made the right choice in waiving De Jong since he passed through unclaimed. 

 

Regardless, my point was more about providing explanation as to why his is still on the roster. I think there is upside there. Granite has a fairly obvious piece (hitting for any kind of power) missing from his current skill set that's preventing him from being a decent big league player. But, fortunately for him, it is a skill that players pick up (especially in their late 20s) all the time. (Contrast that with Tyler Austin, where the conversation is that he needs to cut his K% by 20%. How many players - at 27yo - make drastic cuts to their strikeout rate?) And if it is obvious to me, it should be obvious to the Twins development staff. Hopefully, they sat down with him at the end of the season and basically said, "Look Zack, your current game won't work in the big leagues. You need to change your swing and approach to generate more power, and we will help you figure this out." And hopefully that is what he has been working on all offseason, and will continue through spring training. And if it doesn't happen, he is gone next November. Or sooner if they need the roster space. But the path, though unlikely, is there.


#66 bighat

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Posted 07 February 2019 - 01:49 PM

Cave in a landslide.

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#67 yarnivek1972

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Posted 07 February 2019 - 03:00 PM

I don't disagree with your point about pitching, and I'm not going to go to the ramparts in order to keep Granite on the roster at all costs. If they claim a pitcher with some decent upside, or if they sign a veteran, I'm not going to throw a fuss if they waive Granite to make space. He isn't my personal #40 guy on the roster, but he is probably #37 or so. Anyway, at some level they made the right choice in waiving De Jong since he passed through unclaimed.

Regardless, my point was more about providing explanation as to why his is still on the roster. I think there is upside there. Granite has a fairly obvious piece (hitting for any kind of power) missing from his current skill set that's preventing him from being a decent big league player. But, fortunately for him, it is a skill that players pick up (especially in their late 20s) all the time. (Contrast that with Tyler Austin, where the conversation is that he needs to cut his K% by 20%. How many players - at 27yo - make drastic cuts to their strikeout rate?) And if it is obvious to me, it should be obvious to the Twins development staff. Hopefully, they sat down with him at the end of the season and basically said, "Look Zack, your current game won't work in the big leagues. You need to change your swing and approach to generate more power, and we will help you figure this out." And hopefully that is what he has been working on all offseason, and will continue through spring training. And if it doesn't happen, he is gone next November. Or sooner if they need the roster space. But the path, though unlikely, is there.



Here’s a related set of facts that is somewhat disquieting.

Miguel Sano turns 26 in May.

Miguel Sano has a nearly identical career K rate as Tyler Austin at the MLB level.

Austin posted a career best K rate of 30.9% in 2018.
Sano posted a career worst K rate of 38.5% in 2018.
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#68 Sconnie

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Posted 07 February 2019 - 08:38 PM

concur. Granite has never been s real prospect. Zero power. Why are they still wasting a roster spot?

backup plan for injury?

#69 Sconnie

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Posted 07 February 2019 - 08:44 PM

Here’s a related set of facts that is somewhat disquieting.

Miguel Sano turns 26 in May.

Miguel Sano has a nearly identical career K rate as Tyler Austin at the MLB level.

Austin posted a career best K rate of 30.9% in 2018.
Sano posted a career worst K rate of 38.5% in 2018.

they have similar iso as well, but there’s one important stat that is very different.

Sano’s Walk rate is significantly higher career 11.9% to Austin’s 7.4%.

#70 yarnivek1972

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Posted 07 February 2019 - 09:13 PM

they have similar iso as well, but there’s one important stat that is very different.

Sano’s Walk rate is significantly higher career 11.9% to Austin’s 7.4%.


I suspect that the difference in their walk rates has more to do with the lineups they have been in for most of their careers than their respective selectivity. Just a hunch that Austin rarely - if ever - hit higher than 7th with the Yankees. Sano has rarely hit lower than 5th. To which one are you going to pitch more carefully?

#71 Sconnie

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Posted 08 February 2019 - 05:48 AM

I suspect that the difference in their walk rates has more to do with the lineups they have been in for most of their careers than their respective selectivity. Just a hunch that Austin rarely - if ever - hit higher than 7th with the Yankees. Sano has rarely hit lower than 5th. To which one are you going to pitch more carefully?

you’re more likely to have runners on batting 7th in the Yankees lineup than 5th in the Twins, no? Yankees had 5 players around 500 plate appearances with a .330 OBP. Twins had 1. Had to go down to 300 plate appearances for the Twins to hit 5... that’s 800 additional Yankee plate appearances with a respectable .330 OBP in 2018.

I guess I’d be more careful with Austin in NY he’d be more likely to come to the plate with runners on.

#72 Doomtints

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Posted 08 February 2019 - 02:26 PM

We need a term like "microeconomics" for baseball stats for situations like this. We are comparing two completely different players by pulling out two stats instead of looking at even half of the full picture.

 

We may as well talk about how Nick Punto and Miguel Sano have the same batting average.

Edited by Doomtints, 08 February 2019 - 02:27 PM.

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#73 Doomtints

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Posted 08 February 2019 - 02:33 PM

 

 

I suspect that the difference in their walk rates has more to do with the lineups they have been in for most of their careers than their respective selectivity. Just a hunch that Austin rarely - if ever - hit higher than 7th with the Yankees. Sano has rarely hit lower than 5th. To which one are you going to pitch more carefully?

 

I would think it's more likely a small sample size issue.

 

But to address your point, I think every team would take a player who hit 17 HR in 1/3 of a season very seriously. The Yankees thought they were selling high on him, we will hopefully find out if that's true or not.

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#74 AlwaysinModeration

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Posted 11 February 2019 - 05:32 AM

Span's was .718, and that includes his breakout repeating AAA.


Well that does it, get Granite to the Lasic guy stat!

Edited by AlwaysinModeration, 11 February 2019 - 05:32 AM.

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