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Article: There’s Hope for a Martin Perez Bounce Back

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#41 howieramone2

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Posted 04 February 2019 - 12:37 PM

 

The Twins are the only team I know of that perpetually signs nothing but #5s. It's not just that they won't sign aces, they won't even sign #3s (apart from Ervin Santana, who worked out very well and played as a #1/#2 for most of his time in MN).

 

For every #5 that turns into a 1-year wonder (Pavano, Hughes), there are half a dozen complete flops, and those 1-year wonders end up causing headaches when the Twins lock them up for more years before they crash back down to earth.......

 

Have to give it to the fans who stay optimistic about this stuff, but come on. If the Twins are good this year it won't be because of Martin Perez.

No team ever has a good year, merely because of their #5 starter. It's not Perez's fault he's not Kershaw. Take this move for what it is. 


#42 KirbyDome89

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Posted 04 February 2019 - 05:10 PM

 

How so?

 

An indictment of the state of things? Or an indictment of the decision to add an option?

 

I personally don't have an opinion about the signing, other than that I find it perplexing on the surface.

A little bit of both, though I'd add the qualifier this option rather than an option.

 

IMO adding a question mark to a group rife with them doesn't make much sense, at least not if the goal is to improve. 

 

 

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#43 birdwatcher

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Posted 04 February 2019 - 05:13 PM

 

A little bit of both, though I'd add the qualifier this option rather than an option.

 

IMO adding a question mark to a group rife with them doesn't make much sense, at least not if the goal is to improve. 

 

 

Good qualifier for sure.

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#44 howieramone2

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Posted 04 February 2019 - 05:21 PM

 

A little bit of both, though I'd add the qualifier this option rather than an option.

 

IMO adding a question mark to a group rife with them doesn't make much sense, at least not if the goal is to improve. 

How many free agents are not question marks? Remember, probably 80% of their previous employers gave up on them. I'm amazed at how many members still view free agency as Christmas time. That's been over for close to 10 years.


#45 Doomtints

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Posted 04 February 2019 - 05:25 PM

 

No team ever has a good year, merely because of their #5 starter. It's not Perez's fault he's not Kershaw. Take this move for what it is. 

 

I am "taking the move for what it is." I just finished saying he's a #5 in a long string of franchise #5s. Clearly I am under no illusion that he is an ace.

Edited by Doomtints, 04 February 2019 - 05:26 PM.

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#46 howieramone2

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Posted 04 February 2019 - 05:48 PM

 

I am "taking the move for what it is." I just finished saying he's a #5 in a long string of franchise #5s. Clearly I am under no illusion that he is an ace.

I stand corrected. I'm tired of this board judging players on what they wanted, and not being at all realistic. Also, Pavano and Hughes were no where close to being #5s when they were signed. 


#47 ashbury

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Posted 04 February 2019 - 06:00 PM

 I'm tired of this board judging players on what they wanted, and not being at all realistic.

It isn't realistic to want the front office to sign someone with a better track record than what they already have? That's a pretty easy grading curve.

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#48 howieramone2

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Posted 04 February 2019 - 06:16 PM

 

It isn't realistic to want the front office to sign someone with a better track record than what they already have? That's a pretty easy grading curve.

I've been screaming to trade for a youngish 2/3 for several years now. IMHO there are 10-12 #1s, probably 25-30 1s and 2s combined. Virtually every team is looking for the same thing. 

 

In 2020, Berrios, Gibson, Romero, Thorpe, free agent. Graterol in 2021. I don't know if I'm safe saying this, but 4 of the 5 are TR's guys.


#49 Mike Sixel

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Posted 04 February 2019 - 06:16 PM

 

How many free agents are not question marks? Remember, probably 80% of their previous employers gave up on them. I'm amazed at how many members still view free agency as Christmas time. That's been over for close to 10 years.

 

How many minor league prospects aren't question marks? Every player acquired in a trade was "given up on" by their former team (in return for players, or cash, or just roster space). Who is more likely to be good, a player that has already shown to be good in the majors, or a prospect who has never played in the majors?

 

And who thinks there are no question marks, or that it is a free gift? Anyone?

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It's been a fun year so far, GO Twins. 


#50 howieramone2

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Posted 04 February 2019 - 06:25 PM

 

How many minor league prospects aren't question marks? Every player acquired in a trade was "given up on" by their former team (in return for players, or cash, or just roster space). Who is more likely to be good, a player that has already shown to be good in the majors, or a prospect who has never played in the majors?

 

And who thinks there are no question marks, or that it is a free gift? Anyone?

If you think every player traded was given up on, you need to pay more attention.


#51 Thrylos

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Posted 04 February 2019 - 06:34 PM

 

It isn't realistic to want the front office to sign someone with a better track record than what they already have? That's a pretty easy grading curve.

 

Sure.Give me a name ofa free agent (because "sign" is the operational word) better than Perez that would have agreed to an one year deal with an option.

 

Should they have traded for a better pitcher?For sure.But that's a different ask

 

 

Edited by Thrylos, 04 February 2019 - 06:34 PM.

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#52 Mike Sixel

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Posted 04 February 2019 - 06:40 PM

If you think every player traded was given up on, you need to pay more attention.


I don't. Any more than every free agent was.

It's been a fun year so far, GO Twins. 


#53 Mike Sixel

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Posted 04 February 2019 - 06:41 PM

Sure. Give me a name of a free agent (because "sign" is the operational word) better than Perez that would have agreed to an one year deal with an option.

Should they have traded for a better pitcher? For sure. But that's a different ask


Wait? They can only sign one year deals? And, I'm pretty sure this post isn't only about this year, or only about pitchers.
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It's been a fun year so far, GO Twins. 


#54 Linus

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Posted 04 February 2019 - 06:56 PM

Liriano signed a minor league deal for around $1.3 million. This is the deal we should have pursued instead of Perez
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#55 ewen21

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Posted 04 February 2019 - 07:17 PM

 

To put things into perspective:

 

a. Perez is 27 years old.Here are Jake Arrieta's numbers up to his age 27 season in Baltimore: 5.46 ERA, 4.72 FIP, 1.472 WHIP, 7.0 K/9, 

Ok.There is a positive slant, but understand for every Arrieta there are dozens of others with these numbers who are out of baseball before they turn 30

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#56 ewen21

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Posted 04 February 2019 - 07:18 PM

 

Liriano signed a minor league deal for around $1.3 million. This is the deal we should have pursued instead of Perez

Maybe it was pursued and he wanted nothing to do with the Twins.We did not have the best relationship with him (even though that was with the old guard, not sure if he would feel like coming back)


#57 Otwins

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Posted 04 February 2019 - 10:46 PM

 

I like the signing. Mid market teams need to sign and win on some of these guys.

They also need to be willing to take on a few big contracts. I expected them to couple the Cruz signing with another signing. My disappointment is with that lack of second signing and not with Perez.

This is exactly how I feel. I do not mind the Parker or Perez acquisitions but I thought there would be a closer and another starter acquired. I think exploring trading Rosario for a good pitcher makes sense. With Kiriloff and Larnach coming soon and Cave able to fill in this year I think this is the closest thing to a surplus that we have to trade from. It may take Rosario and some prospects but we have a surplus there also.

Edited by Otwins, 04 February 2019 - 10:47 PM.


#58 KirbyDome89

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Posted 04 February 2019 - 11:42 PM

 

How many free agents are not question marks? Remember, probably 80% of their previous employers gave up on them. I'm amazed at how many members still view free agency as Christmas time. That's been over for close to 10 years.

Not all question marks are equal. Do you believe the Perez signing has the same odds of going belly up as signing Soria or Ottavino and slotting Romero into the rotation? 

Edited by KirbyDome89, 04 February 2019 - 11:43 PM.

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#59 Brock Beauchamp

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Posted 05 February 2019 - 10:18 AM

Sure, Perez can bounce back. Great, sure, whatever. The problem is that even if he bounces back, his past ceiling has been "eh, whatever, he won't kill you out there in the fourth or fifth spot".

 

This team has a $100m payroll.

 

So forgive me if I don't get excited about a pitcher "bouncing back" to mediocrity when the team should have literally forty million dollars to go buy some real pitchers.

 

"Working within the margins" only matters if you're working at 100% payroll capacity... not if you have a Tampa Bay Rays-sized hole in your payroll.

 

That's not working within the margins. That's called "being cheap".

 

Again, super-thrilled that my Minneapolis tax dollars have supported this ever-underwhelming attempt at contention.

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#60 Battle ur tail off

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Posted 06 February 2019 - 02:47 PM

 

Not all question marks are equal. Do you believe the Perez signing has the same odds of going belly up as signing Soria or Ottavino and slotting Romero into the rotation? 

 

And this was probably the right play. Put Romero in there if you aren't going to sign the best FA pitcher out there. 

Put Romero in and buy or trade for the best bullpen piece you can get your hands on. 

 

Even using the large lefthanded kid in the rotation would have been preferable IMO. At the very worst, the guy shows he has a little something to the league and you can flip him packaged up for something decent. The league by now knows Perez isn't worth much. 

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