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Article: Get To Know: Twins Infield Prospect Daniel Ozoria

daniel ozoria engelb vielma john curtiss blake parker
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#21 mlhouse

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Posted 17 January 2019 - 07:51 PM

For those saying this is a lottery ticket:LOTTERY TICKETS ARE FOR SUCKERS.   

 

John Curtiss is just another in a line of players the Twins have never given a proper shot.They only gave him 15 total innings spread over 2 season.

 

I get that the Twins goal is to sign every declining free agent above tha age of 33 to one year deals, and I am not claiming that John Curtiss is the next coming of Lee Smith, nor that Daniel Ozoria has zero percent chance at becoming a servicable player (it is about 1.23%), just that the Twins front office is not doing much to prepare this team to be a competitive team in the future.  

 

TO become a competitive team, we need a guy like John Curtiss to step up and become a viable piece of the bullpen.Maybe Curtiss wasn't the guy, but Parker isn't either even if he has a good year this year and if Curtiss wasn't the guy then we needed to plug in the other minor league relievers and see if they pan out. 

 

 

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#22 Mr. Brooks

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Posted 17 January 2019 - 08:45 PM

For those saying this is a lottery ticket: LOTTERY TICKETS ARE FOR SUCKERS.

John Curtiss is just another in a line of players the Twins have never given a proper shot. They only gave him 15 total innings spread over 2 season.

I get that the Twins goal is to sign every declining free agent above tha age of 33 to one year deals, and I am not claiming that John Curtiss is the next coming of Lee Smith, nor that Daniel Ozoria has zero percent chance at becoming a servicable player (it is about 1.23%), just that the Twins front office is not doing much to prepare this team to be a competitive team in the future.

TO become a competitive team, we need a guy like John Curtiss to step up and become a viable piece of the bullpen. Maybe Curtiss wasn't the guy, but Parker isn't either even if he has a good year this year and if Curtiss wasn't the guy then we needed to plug in the other minor league relievers and see if they pan out.


Hypothetically, what should they have done with Curtiss if they are already convinced he's not an MLB caliber player?
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#23 MN_ExPat

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Posted 18 January 2019 - 07:46 AM

 

For those saying this is a lottery ticket:LOTTERY TICKETS ARE FOR SUCKERS.   

 

I get that the Twins goal is to sign every declining free agent above tha age of 33 to one year deals, and I am not claiming that John Curtiss is the next coming of Lee Smith, nor that Daniel Ozoria has zero percent chance at becoming a servicable player (it is about 1.23%)

  • It's baseball, in a sense every single professional player is a lottery ticket (yes, some more so than others)
  • 1.23% - So you're saying that there's a chance?

:)

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#24 goulik

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Posted 18 January 2019 - 12:03 PM

The tough thing about projecting in Baseball is the uncertainty Rounds 1-40. In other sports you have more knowledge of what you're getting.

 

In comparison, in the NFL, you know a first round guy should be a super star or a QB... QB's are the biggest question marks. 2nd-4th rounders will probably be decent players to stars, and 5-7 rounders will probably be around the next 3 years but there are no guarantees they will contribute much. They are your NFL lotto tickets. 

 

Comparing that to baseball, a first round pick in baseball is more like a 5th to 7th rounder in football. They will probably make it to AAA and you will hear about them for the next several years but there is no guarantee they will really ever contribute. Everyone after the first round is an even bigger question mark.

 

In the NBA, you pretty much know what you're getting from the outset. Unless your the Spurs, the second half of the first round through the second round are gonna be role players.

 

MiLB and MLB baseball is such a crap shoot in comparison...


#25 mlhouse

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Posted 18 January 2019 - 12:42 PM

 

Hypothetically, what should they have done with Curtiss if they are already convinced he's not an MLB caliber player?

 

1. Not sure how they are convinced that Curtiss isn't a MLB caliber player in just 15 innings stretched over 2 seasons. I get that they have a good idea, but to be convinced that is stretching it. 

 

2. This is the same front office that had some idea that 38 year old Matt Belisle is a MLB caliber player and gave him the ball in 25 games (15% of their total games, much more because he was picked up mid-seaason) to a stellar 9.13 ERA.  

 

Again, why not give the ball to a young guy like Curtiss and Andrew Vasquez and see what they can do.YOu already know what Belisle will do.THen, if you give each of them 25+ appearances you can be convinced.

 

The other thing, why do they have such patience with a guy like Matt Belisle, a 38 year old journeyman who will not impact the future of this franchise, and such little patience with John Curtiss, and no patience with players like Luke Bard??? It is baffling to me.

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#26 Old Twins Cap

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Posted 18 January 2019 - 12:53 PM

Never bought a lottery ticket myself, but, I suppose if I were a MLB Chief, and given the sheer numbers of players coursing through the league, and the remote likelihood of success for any given one of them, I would collect a fair number of lottery tickets.

 

Just because you never know who the next Mariano Rivera or Tony Gwynn or Trevor Hoffman is going to be.


#27 mlhouse

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Posted 18 January 2019 - 01:07 PM

 

The tough thing about projecting in Baseball is the uncertainty Rounds 1-40. In other sports you have more knowledge of what you're getting.

 

In comparison, in the NFL, you know a first round guy should be a super star or a QB... QB's are the biggest question marks. 2nd-4th rounders will probably be decent players to stars, and 5-7 rounders will probably be around the next 3 years but there are no guarantees they will contribute much. They are your NFL lotto tickets. 

 

Comparing that to baseball, a first round pick in baseball is more like a 5th to 7th rounder in football. They will probably make it to AAA and you will hear about them for the next several years but there is no guarantee they will really ever contribute. Everyone after the first round is an even bigger question mark.

 

In the NBA, you pretty much know what you're getting from the outset. Unless your the Spurs, the second half of the first round through the second round are gonna be role players.

 

MiLB and MLB baseball is such a crap shoot in comparison...

 

The main problem with the baseball draft is that the level of competition is varied. A guy like B.J. Garbe might look like a future major league all-star because he is playing against high schoolers in the state of Washington and it is virtually impossible to extrapolate from that performance.

 

When I watched Garbe in rookie league ball (Elizabethton vs. the Danville Braves) I could tell he was limited in four at bats.Now, instead of inept high school pitchers he was facing drafted players only and you could see he did not have the bat speed. At the same time, you could see that Tim Spooneybarger had a future because he not only had a draftable fastball, but could change speeds with control.

 

Spooneybarger was a 29th round draft pick.BJ Garbe the 6th overall.But it was Tim that was in the major leagues 2 years later and Garbe never got above AA.

 

What I think major league baseball should do is draft from the Rookie leagues.Instead of drafting in June, once a player is eligible for the draft they would be assigned to a rookie league team.THe major leagues would pay them to play from a common fund.Then, at the conclusion of the short leagues, the teams would draft based on the scouting a league were the players are all of a "draftable" quality.  

 

I get there are some things that would have to be worked out.For example, most of the top level players would refuse to play and I have actually talked to a couple of former major league executives and htey hate the idea. Their position is that they have their own draft secrets and don't want them exposed.For example,the Twins drafted Justin MOurneau in the 3rd round the year they drafted BJ Garbe.  

 

But, in the end, what would have happened is that instead of drafting Garbe 6th overall and giving him $1.5 million, they would (or could have) selected Mourneau there and given him the bonus and Garbe would have been a later round.


#28 mlhouse

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Posted 18 January 2019 - 04:57 PM

 

 

  • 1.23% - So you're saying that there's a chance?

:)

 

 

Yes, I am a hopeless optimist with my prediction.

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#29 sweetmusicviola16

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Posted 18 January 2019 - 05:55 PM

The issue isn't with Ozoria at all. He may well turn into something. The issue is cutting loose Curtiss to get him. We know what Duffey and Magill are and likely Parker as well. I wouldn't be surprised that Parker is the second coming of Belisle. Belisle getting reps over Curtiss or any other Twins farmhand should upset the fans.

 

My predictiom is that if Ozoria becomes ML close in 4 years that he will receive the same fate as Curtiss.


#30 theBOMisthebomb

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Posted 18 January 2019 - 06:39 PM

1. Not sure how they are convinced that Curtiss isn't a MLB caliber player in just 15 innings stretched over 2 seasons. I get that they have a good idea, but to be convinced that is stretching it. 
 
2. This is the same front office that had some idea that 38 year old Matt Belisle is a MLB caliber player and gave him the ball in 25 games (15% of their total games, much more because he was picked up mid-seaason) to a stellar 9.13 ERA.  
 
Again, why not give the ball to a young guy like Curtiss and Andrew Vasquez and see what they can do.YOu already know what Belisle will do.THen, if you give each of them 25+ appearances you can be convinced.
 
The other thing, why do they have such patience with a guy like Matt Belisle, a 38 year old journeyman who will not impact the future of this franchise, and such little patience with John Curtiss, and no patience with players like Luke Bard??? It is baffling to me.

Yes. This FO has an odd affinity for older guys with no upside (see Gimenez, Chris). While they seem eager to cut the cord on young pitchers with (the apparently dreaded) potential and high ceiling. So far, I have given them the benefit of the doubt. The proof will be in the pudding.

#31 HrbieFan

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Posted 18 January 2019 - 08:38 PM

Sure hope he hits a growth spurt really soon!

#32 Mr. Brooks

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Posted 18 January 2019 - 09:34 PM

1. Not sure how they are convinced that Curtiss isn't a MLB caliber player in just 15 innings stretched over 2 seasons. I get that they have a good idea, but to be convinced that is stretching it.

2. This is the same front office that had some idea that 38 year old Matt Belisle is a MLB caliber player and gave him the ball in 25 games (15% of their total games, much more because he was picked up mid-seaason) to a stellar 9.13 ERA.

Again, why not give the ball to a young guy like Curtiss and Andrew Vasquez and see what they can do. YOu already know what Belisle will do. THen, if you give each of them 25+ appearances you can be convinced.

The other thing, why do they have such patience with a guy like Matt Belisle, a 38 year old journeyman who will not impact the future of this franchise, and such little patience with John Curtiss, and no patience with players like Luke Bard??? It is baffling to me.


Well, two posts after this one you claimed you were convinced on BJ Garbe after 4 at bats. So, you're contradicting yourself a bit when you say the FO can't be convinced after 15 innings.

#33 mlhouse

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Posted 19 January 2019 - 12:57 PM

 

Well, two posts after this one you claimed you were convinced on BJ Garbe after 4 at bats. So, you're contradicting yourself a bit when you say the FO can't be convinced after 15 innings.

 

It isn't a contradiction at all.I was convinced that Garbe did not have the bat speed to play in the majors within 4 at bats.

 

But, I wasn't going to cut him after 4 at bats either.I wasn't going to not give him a chance at higher levels of the minors by putting some 30+ year old has been in the Quad Cities outfield so our A minor league team could win a few additional minor league games.  

 

I am going to understand what the objectives of the team should be, and trying to develop and evaluate Garbe was really important.I think the Twins did the proper course with Garbe. They moved him each year from A, to A+ for two years, and a final season in AA.They gave him 2,500 of minor league plate appearances, let him reach his level of complete ineptitude and gave him a substantial amount of opportunities at that level.

 

In that game, a Twins prospect I thought had way more potential than Garbe was Kevin West.West was our 16th round draft pick in that same1999 draft. A huge guy at 6-2, 225 West developed into his power potential as a minor league player.Moving slowly through the minors, by 2004 he had a season mostly in AA were he hit 29 home runs with a ,899 OPS.He followed that season up by hitting 20 home runs in 425 at bats in AAA Rochester with a .832 OPS.  

 

I would think that a guy that developed that level of power with a .350 OPB would have at least got a look at the end of the 2005 season on a team that was 16 games out? Fifteen at bats or so.WHat does that hurt?Would the team have lost 81 games instead of 79 if they brought West up and at least gave him a cup of coffee.  

 

West was injured the next year.Left the organization and never played as well as he did in 2004 or 2005, never got a chance at thebig leagues.


#34 howieramone2

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Posted 19 January 2019 - 01:04 PM

 

Wish we could re-do the trade and keep Curtiss. Chances are good that the Twins regret this move.

Members usually say that, but it seldom happens. 

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#35 IndianaTwin

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Posted 19 January 2019 - 01:07 PM

 

Well, they have a good track record with reclaiming hard-throwing but wild pitchers from the Twins.See: Alex Meyer.

 

We're just a bunch of old farmers sitting around the coffee shop in the cold of winter, arguing about the price of combine parts.The Lukewarm Folgers League.

 

We got six inches of snow so far. You? And can you believe those idiots on (name your channel of choice)?

 


#36 IndianaTwin

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Posted 19 January 2019 - 01:14 PM

 

...

 

When I watched Garbe in rookie league ball (Elizabethton vs. the Danville Braves) I could tell he was limited in four at bats.Now, instead of inept high school pitchers he was facing drafted players only and you could see he did not have the bat speed. At the same time, you could see that Tim Spooneybarger had a future because he not only had a draftable fastball, but could change speeds with control.

 

 

 

I was high on Spooneybarger when he came up. Wouldn't it have been awesome if he was five years younger or Saltalamacchia was five years older? 

 


#37 howieramone2

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Posted 19 January 2019 - 01:22 PM

 

1. Not sure how they are convinced that Curtiss isn't a MLB caliber player in just 15 innings stretched over 2 seasons. I get that they have a good idea, but to be convinced that is stretching it. 

 

2. This is the same front office that had some idea that 38 year old Matt Belisle is a MLB caliber player and gave him the ball in 25 games (15% of their total games, much more because he was picked up mid-seaason) to a stellar 9.13 ERA.  

 

Again, why not give the ball to a young guy like Curtiss and Andrew Vasquez and see what they can do.YOu already know what Belisle will do.THen, if you give each of them 25+ appearances you can be convinced.

 

The other thing, why do they have such patience with a guy like Matt Belisle, a 38 year old journeyman who will not impact the future of this franchise, and such little patience with John Curtiss, and no patience with players like Luke Bard??? It is baffling to me.

Belisle had the best ERA on the team in 2017 after June 15th. I believe the Indians thought he was a major league pitcher early in 2018 also. 


#38 mlhouse

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Posted 19 January 2019 - 01:32 PM

 

Belisle had the best ERA on the team in 2017 after June 15th. I believe the Indians thought he was a major league pitcher early in 2018 also. 

 

 

And the Indians had a team that could compete. So having a veteran pitcher on their staff actually made sense. 

 

When the Twins picked Belisle off waiversin 2018, they were not a competing team and having a 38 year old pitcher made Zero sense.   

 

When Belisle pitched terribly, it made even less than zero sense to keep him on the staff.

 

And when he continued to pitch beyond terrible, how does it occur to the manager and front office to continue to bring him into the game?????

 

Seriously, how can I have respect for a front office that does this? If I pitch John Curtiss in those right handed relief appearances instead of Matt Belisle I actually GAIN something for the organization even if Curtiss is as bad as Belisle.And since he probably wasn't going to be as bad (a 9+ ERA) we probably come out statistically better anyways.  

 

Again, why does the organization have patience with a 38 year old guy who has zero future with the team, giving him 25 appearances he, to use a phrase others use, "did not earn" while they appear the be beyond anxious to kick prospects WHO HAVE EARNED THEIR WAY TO A CHANCE AT THE MAJOR LEAGUES, out the door????? Between that and not giving other prospects even a chance, I have to wonder what these people are trying to do? 

 

WE are not going to build a competitive team signing 30+ year old players on the abject downside of their careers to one year deals.  


#39 7r4de me

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Posted 19 January 2019 - 11:27 PM

Dumb. I agree with others who say granite should’ve been DFA’d. Arms are better than......uh.....Mendoza liners. I guess that’s the upside of this guy and granite?
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