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Twins Trade Curtiss to Angels for Daniel Ozoria

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#81 h2oface

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Posted 17 January 2019 - 06:28 PM

 

As far as the Minnesota Twins (the MLB club) go, any player who did not make it to the majors and/or resulted to a major leaguer in a trade, is irrelevant, since he did not contribute to the potential success of the club in the major leagues. 

 

The goal of an organization is to develop players and prospect in order to win major league games.Not development for development's sake.

 

Amen! This ain't high school!

Edited by h2oface, 17 January 2019 - 06:28 PM.


#82 Nick Nelson

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Posted 17 January 2019 - 06:39 PM

 

Do you think Curtiss is better than Magill or do you just like Curtiss more because of the options?

Magill was pretty solid for us the first half, and was maybe a bit overused...leading to his 2nd half decline.

(not saying I'm crazy about Magill-but he is an okay back of the bullpen guy)

The options. And the fact that he's 4 years younger.

 

For Magill, I think regression to the mean is about as likely as him being overused. He's a 29-year-old minor-league journeyman.

 

 

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#83 ashbury

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Posted 17 January 2019 - 06:52 PM

The options. And the fact that he's 4 years younger.

 

For Magill, I think regression to the mean is about as likely as him being overused. He's a 29-year-old minor-league journeyman.

His OPS-against was .809, on a pretty routine .303 BABIP. Magill doesn't even need to regress.

 

Curtiss's AAA OPS was just above .600. Even accounting for the difference in opponent level (I tend to add .100 just as a rule of thumb), and a slightly favorable BABIP, that's a better season.

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So, in conclusion, what was your question again?


#84 Nick Nelson

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Posted 17 January 2019 - 07:07 PM

 

His OPS-against was .809, on a pretty routine .303 BABIP. Magill doesn't even need to regress.

 

Curtiss's AAA OPS was just above .600. Even accounting for the difference in opponent level (I tend to add .100 just as a rule of thumb), and a slightly favorable BABIP, that's a better season.

Oh yea, Magill's season as a whole was not good by any measure other than ERA (5.08 FIP, eek).

 

I just meant he regressed to the mean after his strong start with the Twins.

 

Magill in 12 appearances through 5/31: 1.53 ERA, .619 OPS

Magill in 28 appearances after 6/1: 4.85 ERA, .886 OPS

 

Based on his history and, ya know, just the eye test, I think we can safely conclude which version's closer to the real Magill. It's hard for me to conceive that they actually view him as a viable candidate for the Opening Day roster, which means they're gonna need to pass him through waivers one way or another. Why not just do it now and hang on to Curtiss?

 

This is what makes me think another MLB reliever signing has gotta be coming.

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#85 Mr. Brooks

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Posted 17 January 2019 - 07:21 PM

I just think that if the expectation for every player that is signed or acquired by an organization is the big leagues or it's a failure by the organization, that's just not true. It can't' be.


Why does it have to be a success or a failure though?
I don't think anyone said it's a failure if every prospect doesn't make it to MLB. I think some take issue calling AAA a success though.
I just don't see how it can be called a success for the team, unless said player is traded for an MLB asset.
As Thrylos said, every dollar and every hour the team spends on development is with the goal of helping the MLB team, not as a community service.
In the case of a 16 year old signee, or later draft pick topping out at AAA, I'd say it's in a gray area. Not a failure, because they weren't expected to make it, but not a success for the team either.

#86 Seth Stohs

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Posted 17 January 2019 - 07:57 PM

 

Why does it have to be a success or a failure though?
I don't think anyone said it's a failure if every prospect doesn't make it to MLB. I think some take issue calling AAA a success though.
I just don't see how it can be called a success for the team, unless said player is traded for an MLB asset.
As Thrylos said, every dollar and every hour the team spends on development is with the goal of helping the MLB team, not as a community service.
In the case of a 16 year old signee, or later draft pick topping out at AAA, I'd say it's in a gray area. Not a failure, because they weren't expected to make it, but not a success for the team either.

 

This is a weird topic for argument.

 

But, if a player is deemed to have a High-A ceiling and he gets to AAA, does the team not deserve at least some credit (along with the player) for maximizing his potential?


#87 Brock Beauchamp

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Posted 17 January 2019 - 08:32 PM

Do you think Curtiss is better than Magill or do you just like Curtiss more because of the options?
Magill was pretty solid for us the first half, and was maybe a bit overused...leading to his 2nd half decline.
(not saying I'm crazy about Magill-but he is an okay back of the bullpen guy)

I’m higher on Curtiss but it’s relatively close. I don’t really love either of them. At least Curtiss has age and untapped potential on his side.

#88 Brock Beauchamp

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Posted 17 January 2019 - 08:37 PM

This is a weird topic for argument.

But, if a player is deemed to have a High-A ceiling and he gets to AAA, does the team not deserve at least some credit (along with the player) for maximizing his potential?

Yes, but it’s irrelevant to the spectating crowd. If a team is good at development, those A players will become AAA players but no one cares except the player, his family, and the coaches involved.

But a good development team will also see AA players become backup MLB players and AAA players become MLB contributors.

I guess the only difference is if you look up- or down-stream.

#89 Mr. Brooks

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Posted 17 January 2019 - 08:51 PM

This is a weird topic for argument.

But, if a player is deemed to have a High-A ceiling and he gets to AAA, does the team not deserve at least some credit (along with the player) for maximizing his potential?


Sure, they deserve some credit, but I still don't see how it can be considered a success if never ends up impacting the MLB team.
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#90 USAFChief

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Posted 18 January 2019 - 06:45 AM

 

This is a weird topic for argument.

 

But, if a player is deemed to have a High-A ceiling and he gets to AAA, does the team not deserve at least some credit (along with the player) for maximizing his potential?

If they're bringing in players deemed to have a High-A ceiling, they need new people responsible for bringing in players.

 

 

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#91 big dog

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Posted 18 January 2019 - 07:24 AM

 

2017 has nothing to do with 2018.

We ran with Belisle last year in a lost season instead of Curtiss or anybody else who could possibly increase in value. Belisle is then predictably not resigned and the return on the investment is zero and Curtiss is Taken off the 40 man leading to a trade of questionable return. No value from Belisle and Minimum value from Curtiss and back into the pile you go with absolutely no ground gained.

It was a lost season with selling at the trade deadline. Curtiss is the one who could increase in value. Belisle would not increase in value. They gave MLB work to the wrong guy.

Multiply Belisle times all the other players who we’ve let go with exhausted value for a decade or longer and the hindsight kinda hits you right between the eyes.

I certainly hope that replacing Molitor with Baldelli results in a major change in this approach.

 

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#92 Seth Stohs

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Posted 18 January 2019 - 08:29 AM

 

If they're bringing in players deemed to have a High-A ceiling, they need new people responsible for bringing in players.

 

I guess thats' just not the reality. The reality is that they have to fill a bunch of minor league rosters too. I'm sure the goal and hope for every player is to get them to the big leagues... that's just not realistic. It's just not. 


#93 cmoss84

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Posted 18 January 2019 - 10:33 AM

 

This is a weird topic for argument.

 

But, if a player is deemed to have a High-A ceiling and he gets to AAA, does the team not deserve at least some credit (along with the player) for maximizing his potential?

It would be an interesting study to find out the average level a player gets to in each organization...I guess would be another way of grading organizational depth and development. Do "they" have something like this already?

I'd rather have a bottle in front of me than a frontal lobotomy.


#94 ashbury

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Posted 18 January 2019 - 10:42 AM

It would be an interesting study to find out the average level a player gets to in each organization...I guess would be another way of grading organizational depth and development. Do "they" have something like this already?

If this ever became a thing, and front offices knew they were being sized up according to this metric, they would fall all over themselves to bring each and every prospect (and suspect) up to AAA for a demitasse of thin, watery decaf before releasing him. :)

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So, in conclusion, what was your question again?


#95 yarnivek1972

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Posted 21 January 2019 - 02:39 PM

Twins sure like to DFA young pitchers brought on board by the previous regime. Melotakis, Chargois, Rosario, Curtiss, Slegers, Jorge... Also, Burdi and Bard left exposed to the Rule 5.

Has the current front office DFA'd a young position player off the 40 yet? There must be someone I'm forgetting.

Which probably speaks more to the lack of depth of MLB caliber position players in the organization.

Edited by yarnivek1972, 21 January 2019 - 02:39 PM.


#96 nicksaviking

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Posted 21 January 2019 - 03:03 PM

 

If this ever became a thing, and front offices knew they were being sized up according to this metric, they would fall all over themselves to bring each and every prospect (and suspect) up to AAA for a demitasse of thin, watery decaf before releasing him. :)

 

Kind of like how Harlod Baines happened to get into the HOF the same year that two of his former GMs were voting?

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