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Is the FO "blowing it" in regard to the bench?

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#21 diehardtwinsfan

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Posted 09 January 2019 - 10:09 AM

 

Here's the thing...am i the only one who got the impression that the explanation for last years fire sale was to free up payroll so that we could "keep our options open" during the 2019 FA signing period?

 

With the exception of Pressley, every contract traded was on it's last year. The trades had nothing to do with keeping options open. They were to acquire additional assets in a lost season. Pressley was the only exception to this, and largely (I think) because they got an offer they felt they couldn't refuse. 

 

I'm not sure I'd call that a grand plan to win the WS, but the best way to position yourself for a WS is to have guys that can contribute and guys you can trade to fill holes when the time is right. 

 

And yes, in my opinion, Marwin Gonzalez was a no brainer. I'd have loved to upgrade Adrianza with him... Unfortunately, he's signed, so that ship has sailed.... oh, and yes, I agree with you that we should get another RP... not sure the starting market makes a ton of sense given our situation, but having another option in high leverage situations would be wise. 

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#22 Number3

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Posted 09 January 2019 - 10:15 AM

I know I am the least qualified from an expertise standpoint. However, it is a given that depth is key on any roster in any sport so I am not sure what the point here is. When a team starts a season with 2 penciled in starters in the "unknown" category, that speaks for itself. The only certainty in the Twins' 2019 season is Joe Mauer day. 2019 is a transitional, if not outright rebuilding, year for the Twins and they won't even know what kind of team they have until this year is over. I do think they will be competitive and fun to follow on a game to game basis with no expectations whatsoever. I am glad they have a new manager and I am glad the Joe Mauer era is over. Time to move on.

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#23 jkcarew

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Posted 09 January 2019 - 10:39 AM

 

Someday major league rosters will expand to 27 or 28 and you roster 25 for a game, so you can have the situational runner and an extra bench bat.

I would be all for this, if I thought what you state would happen. Instead, I believe the new spots would simply be used to move even more pitchers around (more easily...back and forth between active and inactive) with the result being even more arms being available for each game. That would make things worse, not better. Roster expansion is right at the top of the 'be careful what you wish for' list, IMO.


#24 USNMCPO

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Posted 09 January 2019 - 12:08 PM

 

I would be all for this, if I thought what you state would happen. Instead, I believe the new spots would simply be used to move even more pitchers around (more easily...back and forth between active and inactive) with the result being even more arms being available for each game. That would make things worse, not better. Roster expansion is right at the top of the 'be careful what you wish for' list, IMO.

Perhaps the answer should be from MLB: We are expanding the roster to 27 (or 28) but limiting the number of pitchers on the active roster to no more than 13.

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#25 Channing1964

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Posted 10 January 2019 - 07:49 PM

With the exception of Pressley, every contract traded was on it's last year. The trades had nothing to do with keeping options open. They were to acquire additional assets in a lost season. Pressley was the only exception to this, and largely (I think) because they got an offer they felt they couldn't refuse.

I'm not sure I'd call that a grand plan to win the WS, but the best way to position yourself for a WS is to have guys that can contribute and guys you can trade to fill holes when the time is right.

And yes, in my opinion, Marwin Gonzalez was a no brainer. I'd have loved to upgrade Adrianza with him... Unfortunately, he's signed, so that ship has sailed.... oh, and yes, I agree with you that we should get another RP... not sure the starting market makes a ton of sense given our situation, but having another option in high leverage situations would be wise.


#26 Channing1964

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Posted 10 January 2019 - 07:56 PM

With the exception of Pressley, every contract traded was on it's last year. The trades had nothing to do with keeping options open. They were to acquire additional assets in a lost season. Pressley was the only exception to this, and largely (I think) because they got an offer they felt they couldn't refuse.

I'm not sure I'd call that a grand plan to win the WS, but the best way to position yourself for a WS is to have guys that can contribute and guys you can trade to fill holes when the time is right.

And yes, in my opinion, Marwin Gonzalez was a no brainer. I'd have loved to upgrade Adrianza with him... Unfortunately, he's signed, so that ship has sailed.... oh, and yes, I agree with you that we should get another RP... not sure the starting market makes a ton of sense given our situation, but having another option in high leverage situations would be wise.

So there and es the question freed up payroll means more money in the owner's pocket and in Falvine's christmas bonus checks. Now Jed Lowrie is gone too....if you believe Duran, Smetzer, Celestino, Raley, Dejong, Tyler Austin, or whoever they got for Rodney straight up was improving the team or putting the organization in the right direction then id like to see how. I am sure i heard a commment from the FO after these trades suggesting how the transactions free up enormous amounts of payroll to upgrade the team via free agency in 2019

#27 h2oface

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Posted 10 January 2019 - 08:16 PM

 

And yes, in my opinion, Marwin Gonzalez was a no brainer. I'd have loved to upgrade Adrianza with him... Unfortunately, he's signed, so that ship has sailed.... oh, and yes, I agree with you that we should get another RP... not sure the starting market makes a ton of sense given our situation, but having another option in high leverage situations would be wise. 

 

Marwin Gonzalez signed?

That's news to me. What did I miss. I can't find news he has signed, but I can find that he is still a free agent. For the braintrust to not sign him..... is simply irresponsible as far as I am concerned. 

 

https://www.mlb.com/...ors/c-302316766

Edited by h2oface, 10 January 2019 - 08:22 PM.

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#28 lecroy24fan

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Posted 10 January 2019 - 08:42 PM

I think he meant Adrianza has signed.


#29 h2oface

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Posted 10 January 2019 - 08:52 PM

 

I think he meant Adrianza has signed.

 

Hmmmm. Maybe. I can't read minds, or suppose for someone else, but maybe. Still, even if that is so, absolutely no reason not to upgrade with Marvin. The only reason the ship will have sailed is if Gonzalez is no longer available. I am sure Adrianza could be traded, as the whole league must think he is just as ultra valuable as the Twins seem to, right? :wacko:

 

Teams that win consistently, upgrade, regardless of whether they have someone in the position in place, and deal with the excess after.

Edited by h2oface, 10 January 2019 - 09:01 PM.


#30 DocBauer

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Posted 22 January 2019 - 08:07 PM

Cabrera signed by the Rangers for 1yr at $3.5M. He is expected to start at 3B or be the Rangers primary utility man.

I would offered him at least $5M to be the Twins primary utility guy!

Ridiculous Adrianza is our only infield bench piece with any sort of experience!

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#31 Mr. Brooks

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Posted 22 January 2019 - 09:41 PM

Cabrera signed by the Rangers for 1yr at $3.5M. He is expected to start at 3B or be the Rangers primary utility man.

I would offered him at least $5M to be the Twins primary utility guy!

Ridiculous Adrianza is our only infield bench piece with any sort of experience!


Adrianza has a similar bWAR the last 2 years as Cabrera, in half the games. I'd rather have Adrianza. Cabrera is a brutal fielder.
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#32 DocBauer

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Posted 23 January 2019 - 07:42 PM

Adrianza has a similar bWAR the last 2 years as Cabrera, in half the games. I'd rather have Adrianza. Cabrera is a brutal fielder.


I'll be totally honest in that I haven't looked at any of Cabrera's defensive rankings, and haven't watched him closely of late. I will further state that I actually like Adrianza quite a bit. He has turned out to be a nice surprise since brought on board. I feel he is an above average hitter for a utility type, with some surprising pop here and there, and a good-great good glove man. I feel he is at his best when playing regularly, but not daily.

But my consternation is NOT with Adrianza! I want a deep, versatile and competitive roster. One by one, slowly, every seeming valuable infield option has been signed by someone. Now, including Cabrera. He was about as close as you could get to having Escobar back. If his defense was merely average, he provided a potent bat and insurance via injury or just poor performance.

The only option I still see available to provide depth and insurance is Solarte. And he's one of the guys I have previously mentioned. Coming off a down season or not, he's only 31, can hit, has pop, and has experience/versatility across the diamond.

Even with a limited payroll to step back and re-assess, isn't there room for depth and versatility? I mean, yeah, I'd LOVE Marwin Gonzalez, but if you won't make that kind of commitment, shouldn't you at least look for a decent alternative for your team?

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#33 Twodogs

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Posted 23 January 2019 - 07:56 PM

Solarte is a great all around backup player. He can play multiple positions and he hits well in limited at bats. Seems like he plays better when he played in a limited role.

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#34 rv78

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Posted 23 January 2019 - 08:10 PM

When they sign Machado and Harper the bench will get much better.


#35 LA VIkes Fan

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Posted 23 January 2019 - 08:20 PM

 

Bench. With 13 pitchers, just a 3-man bench.

 

1.) Garver/Castro - one is the backup. Astudillo, and maybe Telis at AAA.

2.) Adrianza - can play all four infield spots, plus LF. Torreyes at AAA, with Gordon. 

3.) Cave can play all three outfield spots. Reed is out of options. But Granite should be healthy. Wade is close.

 

They're fine.

Change the word "Cave" to "Kepler" and I'm right with you. Cave outplayed Kepler last year and should start. The problems aren't on the bench, the problems are all the question marks in the "starting" lineup. 


#36 jorgenswest

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Posted 23 January 2019 - 10:05 PM

Change the word "Cave" to "Kepler" and I'm right with you. Cave outplayed Kepler last year and should start. The problems aren't on the bench, the problems are all the question marks in the "starting" lineup.


BPs deserved runs created based on last year’s performance suggests otherwise.

Kepler had a DRC+ of 111 and Cave 90. League average is 100.

https://www.baseball...d-runs-created/

#37 darin617

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Posted 23 January 2019 - 10:12 PM

No, they are just blowing it everywhere. That is what they are best at being consistent.


#38 Channing1964

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Posted 23 January 2019 - 11:41 PM

Cabrera signed by the Rangers for 1yr at $3.5M. He is expected to start at 3B or be the Rangers primary utility man.

I would offered him at least $5M to be the Twins primary utility guy!

Ridiculous Adrianza is our only infield bench piece with any sort of experience!

I totally agree. Asdrubal is just the kind of glue needed to hold this together if Sano flakes out or if something happens to Polanco or Schoop.

#39 Channing1964

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Posted 23 January 2019 - 11:45 PM

I'll be totally honest in that I haven't looked at any of Cabrera's defensive rankings, and haven't watched him closely of late. I will further state that I actually like Adrianza quite a bit. He has turned out to be a nice surprise since brought on board. I feel he is an above average hitter for a utility type, with some surprising pop here and there, and a good-great good glove man. I feel he is at his best when playing regularly, but not daily.

But my consternation is NOT with Adrianza! I want a deep, versatile and competitive roster. One by one, slowly, every seeming valuable infield option has been signed by someone. Now, including Cabrera. He was about as close as you could get to having Escobar back. If his defense was merely average, he provided a potent bat and insurance via injury or just poor performance.

The only option I still see available to provide depth and insurance is Solarte. And he's one of the guys I have previously mentioned. Coming off a down season or not, he's only 31, can hit, has pop, and has experience/versatility across the diamond.

Even with a limited payroll to step back and re-assess, isn't there room for depth and versatility? I mean, yeah, I'd LOVE Marwin Gonzalez, but if you won't make that kind of commitment, shouldn't you at least look for a decent alternative for your team?

You are right about Adrianza....I am just worried about Sano's durability and maybe with a veteran guy like Gonzalez you can give everybody including Polanco and Schop a day off and lose Nothing offensively or defensively. Marwin could win the job at short too!

#40 ashbury

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Posted 24 January 2019 - 04:18 AM

BPs deserved runs created based on last year’s performance suggests otherwise.

Kepler had a DRC+ of 111 and Cave 90. League average is 100.

https://www.baseball...d-runs-created/

 Hadn't run across this. None of the articles this link points to tells me how the stat is actually computed - they just extol its virtues. Do you know?
 

Sano flakes

Good mid-winter pun. :)

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