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Article: Mailbox: Openers, Trading Buxton, Kirilloff’s Debut

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#61 howieramone2

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Posted 10 January 2019 - 12:13 PM

 Brewers, A's, and Braves took less time. Tampa hasn't made the play-offs since 2013 and the Rockies took longer. In no case was any rebuild much, much faster. In fact all were fairly close. 

 

I can't help but remember an article I read in BA years ago. The crux of the article was it takes a mid-market team a minimum of 6 years to do a complete rebuild. Feel free to contact the boys down in North Carolina if you want a copy. They are very helpful.

Edited by howieramone2, 10 January 2019 - 12:31 PM.

25% of the time you can beat anybody. 25% of the time you can't beat nobody. It's the other 50% of the time that defines you as a pitcher.


#62 amjgt

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Posted 10 January 2019 - 12:44 PM

I'm not sure I'd classify the Braves as mid-market

 

Tampa never really went away, so there wasn't really a rebuild there.

 

I'll give you the other 3, but the A's a just a bizarre organization. 


#63 Vanimal46

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Posted 10 January 2019 - 12:50 PM

The last time the Braves had a payroll above 14th in the league was 2008, when they had the 10th highest payroll in baseball. They're a mid market team.

Edited by Vanimal46, 10 January 2019 - 12:50 PM.

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#64 Major League Ready

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Posted 10 January 2019 - 02:24 PM

 

 Brewers, A's, and Braves took less time. Tampa hasn't made the play-offs since 2013 and the Rockies took longer. In no case was any rebuild much, much faster. In fact all were fairly close. 

 

I can't help but remember an article I read in BA years ago. The crux of the article was it takes a mid-market team a minimum of 6 years to do a complete rebuild. Feel free to contact the boys down in North Carolina if you want a copy. They are very helpful.

 

Atlanta and Oakland did a great job but their strategies were also pretty much the exact opposite of what is being endorsed here. They did not trade away any top prospects and they did not sign any high profile FAs. The A’s free agent acquisitions were basically the type of acquisitions that people complain about here.

 

The A’s had 5 position players at 3WAR or better.

Matt Chapman - 6.5 WAR – A’s 1st round pick in 2014.
Jed Lowrie - 4.9 – WAR – I think it’s fair to say Lowrie would have been categorized here as a meh acquisition had the Twins acquired him when the Astros signed him for 3/23 in 2015.
Marcus Semien – 3.7 WAR - Acquired from the White Sox after seasons with Chicago and a cumulative WAR of .7.
Matt Olson - 3.4 WAR - Drafted with the 47th pick in 2012
Stephen Piscotty - 3.0 WAR - Acquired from the cardinals after his 1st year of service where he had .4 WAR

 

The A’s had one SPs that delivered 160 innings. That was Menea who was acquired as a prospect from KC. Their next best SP was Cahill who signed a 1 year deal for 1.5M which would have definitely been characterized as dumpster diving. Their highest WAR pitcher was actually a RP (Theinen) who was acquired for Sean Doolittle and Ryan Madson. Theinen was an average RP before they acquired him.

There is not a single high profile free agent nor did they trade any prospects of note. They built a contender by drafting and making trades for players as prospects or before they broke out.

 

Atlanta had 4 position players at 3 WAR or higher but they had Inciarte at 2.9 so I will include him.

Freddie Freeman - 5.2 WAR – Drafted by the A’s with the 78th pick.
Ozzie Albies- 3.8 WAR - Signed as an Int free agent for $350K.
Ronald Acuna - 3.7 WAR - Signed as an Int free agent for $350K.
Johan Camargo - 3.3 WAR – Signed as an Int free agent for $42K.
Ender Inciarte - 2.9 WAR – Acquired by trading away a proven middle of the rotation SP (Miller) The braves also got a top 10 prospect in Danby Swanson. In other words, the exact opposite approach being supported by many here. 

The Brave’s position players are a result of good drafting and International signings. None of the International draftees were particularly high profile. The total expenditure for all three was just under $500K

 

They had 1 good SP and two decent SPs. Their best SP (Mike Foltynewicz) was acquired by trading away an established player (Gattis) when Foltynewicz had not yet established himself at the MLB level. He finally stepped up in 2018. Their 2nd best SP was Sanchez who the Twins cut. He was not great and certainly is not the type of difference maker acquisition being called for here. The other Sp to log decent innings was Sean Newcomb who the A’s traded Andrelton Simmons to acquire. Again the opposite practice being called for here by many.

The Braves roster was built trading away established talent. There are no big $ free agents or high $ International signings.

 

Tampa’s top 5 position players ( Wendle / Smith / Duffey / Robertson / Cron ) were all acquired before becoming established ML players. They only have 3 pitchers who stand out. Where pitching is concerned, they drafted Snell with the 52nd overall pick. Alvarado was signed as an international free agent at 16 y/o. (cant find the amount). Chris Archer was traded for when he was in AA for Matt Garza

 

The brewers are much the same as Atlanta and Oakland and Tampa with the exception of the Yehlich trade. There is a very consistent theme among these teams. They drafted well and traded established players for young players as prospects or before they became established.None of these teams have spent for high profile FAs. It makes absolutely no sense to hold these franchises up as examples while promoting the practice of signing high dollar free agents and trading away prospects. The franchises are good examples of what the Twins SHOULD do. Yet many people seem to ignore how they built these teams and even go so far as to promote practices that are basically the antithesis of how these teams were built.

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#65 Mike Sixel

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Posted 10 January 2019 - 04:02 PM

Brewers, A's, and Braves took less time. Tampa hasn't made the play-offs since 2013 and the Rockies took longer. In no case was any rebuild much, much faster. In fact all were fairly close.

I can't help but remember an article I read in BA years ago. The crux of the article was it takes a mid-market team a minimum of 6 years to do a complete rebuild. Feel free to contact the boys down in North Carolina if you want a copy. They are very helpful.


Well, the Twins aren't rebuilt yet according to most people and projections. So, we don't know how long this will take.
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#66 howieramone2

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Posted 10 January 2019 - 06:32 PM

 

Well, the Twins aren't rebuilt yet according to most people and projections. So, we don't know how long this will take.

The rebuild ended in 2017 when we were the first team in the history of baseball to lose 100 games and make the play-offs the next season. I recall several members telling you this. I really don't care what most people think and projections are merely guesses. I do recall all of the board's writers except for 1 or 2 predicted we would make the play-offs last season. I have more faith in those guys. 

 

Do any of these most people have names I would recognize? I can't imagine one of the talking heads would state the rebuild wasn't completed in 2017. Every year in every sport, teams falter when they can't get their best players on the field.  

Edited by howieramone2, 10 January 2019 - 06:46 PM.

25% of the time you can beat anybody. 25% of the time you can't beat nobody. It's the other 50% of the time that defines you as a pitcher.