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Article: REPORT: Twins Finalizing Deal With Blake Parker

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#81 ashbury

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Posted 08 January 2019 - 10:28 AM

More like Calvin Griffin.

Peter Griffin's long-lost relative?

FGPeterGriffinHusbandFatherBrother.jpg

 

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It is amazing how many eggs one can break without making a decent omelette.


#82 Jim Hahn

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Posted 08 January 2019 - 10:44 AM

There has been a lot of talk on this site how the Twins are sitting on piles of money, or at least how could spend at a much higher rate. While I suspect that is likely true, nobody seems to factor in the fact that this FO is spending a lot more money in areas that the previous FO did not.

Beyond beefing up the analytics department, they have also beefed up the FO in general. They have added more coaches throughout the minor league system than the previous FO had. They have a couple more major league coaches. Though other adds are more difficult to track, they seem to have added to both the scouting department, the fitness department, and maybe even people who deal with mental health.

Some of this was started by the previous FO, but money has been spent on facilities in Fort Myers and the Dominican Republic, Statcast and other tracking toys, as well upgrading the Elizabethan facilities.

I expect I may be missing other "upgrades" but the money for these things comes from the same sources even if it doesn't fit under the same category as major league player salaries. Now, I believe income for the Twins is trending up, even if attendance isn't. While I think the various upgrades undertaken the last few years were largely necessary, it is likely that this spending could very well impact, at least to some degree, the money available for free agents.
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#83 spycake

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Posted 08 January 2019 - 12:14 PM

 

I am beginning to wonder if picking up guys that other teams made a strategic decision to let go is more than just chance. Is there some market inefficiency that the Twins are trying to exploit?

Not sure if it's really any kind of inefficiency -- maybe more just the market reality. Players in their last 1-2 years of arbitration are generally overpaid via arbitration, particularly at corner positions (Cron) or coming off average or worse seasons (Parker, Schoop). Thus they tend to become available. An older free agent like Cruz faces a similar market effect.

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#84 spycake

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Posted 08 January 2019 - 12:39 PM

 

it is likely that this spending could very well impact, at least to some degree, the money available for free agents.

"Some degree" is probably an incredibly small degree. It's just a reality that MLB player salaries dwarf these other expenditures. Average MLB team payroll is in the range of $130+ million annually. None of the expense items you list could likely equal even 1% of that in a single year.

 

An expense like Elizabethton is a drop in the bucket: $300k upfront, $50k per year for 10 years:

https://www.johnsonc...tadium-upgrades

 

Coaching staff salaries are maybe $50k per year too? Depending on level?

 

And it seems doubtful that there are significant new Statcast costs in 2019 (Target Field was outfitted during the previous regime).

 

The Twins newest Dominican academy was reported as costing $18 mil, but that was 2 years ago (again, the previous regime) and split between the Twins and Phillies: https://www.mlb.com/...emy/c-213683558

 

And it's not as if the average team is investing zero dollars in these things -- they are likely adding new Statcast equipment, new coaches, new facilities too. Even if the Twins are spending above average in these areas now, it's doubtful they are above that average enough to justify any meaningful drop from that $130+ mil average annual player payroll.

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#85 Brandon

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Posted 08 January 2019 - 01:34 PM

 

There has been a lot of talk on this site how the Twins are sitting on piles of money, or at least how could spend at a much higher rate. While I suspect that is likely true, nobody seems to factor in the fact that this FO is spending a lot more money in areas that the previous FO did not.

Beyond beefing up the analytics department, they have also beefed up the FO in general. They have added more coaches throughout the minor league system than the previous FO had. They have a couple more major league coaches. Though other adds are more difficult to track, they seem to have added to both the scouting department, the fitness department, and maybe even people who deal with mental health.

Some of this was started by the previous FO, but money has been spent on facilities in Fort Myers and the Dominican Republic, Statcast and other tracking toys, as well upgrading the Elizabethan facilities.

I expect I may be missing other "upgrades" but the money for these things comes from the same sources even if it doesn't fit under the same category as major league player salaries. Now, I believe income for the Twins is trending up, even if attendance isn't. While I think the various upgrades undertaken the last few years were largely necessary, it is likely that this spending could very well impact, at least to some degree, the money available for free agents.

 I doubt the Twins have spent much more than 5-6 million in each of the last 2 seasons on upgrading the front office.Scouts don't make much money.minor league coaches don't either.maybe 40-60 k tops.I bet the front office ads make between 50-200 k on the top end.The technology could be costly.But I doubt the Twins have spent more than 5-6 million total which is around 3 million per season.Even if they did spend more on the technology, Its mostly a 1 time expense so in future seasons it may not affect the payroll as much.

 

The upgrades on the stadiums can be costly depending on what is done.I know they spent money in Fort Myers, but I don't think they spent in AA.maybe some in AAA or in the Dominican Republic.That's what i don't know or am able to estimate. But that would have to be what is holding spending back.and if so great because its a 1 time expense.

 

Also our local TV and radio deals are terrible compared to what the rest of the teams are getting.If only the local TV and radio weren't so greedy, they could give Jim Pohlad more money so he can spend 52% of it on player salaries.  


#86 mlhouse

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Posted 08 January 2019 - 01:38 PM

 

Minnesota Twins: This is How We Sign your Untendered Scraps

 

Excellent title for a book.

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#87 Jim Hahn

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Posted 08 January 2019 - 01:56 PM

You are likely basically right about the impact, but the actual dollar increase in spending from the last FO to this one, is probably much larger than you are suggesting. Do you really think a college coach with at least a 4 year degree, most probably at least a master's is going to sign a contract for $50,000? Most college coaches, even small college coaches, are going to be making considerably more than that.

The FO personnel added above previous levels, aren't signing for $50,000 either. The analytics people they signed could likely make a pretty large salary for the right corporation, with bonuses. I doubt that Hunter and Hawkins signed for minimal salaries either.

The other question is how many people above previous levels have they hired? 30, maybe as many as 50? Ryan ran a pretty tight ship. Even if this just gets them to what other clubs are spending, it changes considerably what they were spending. I also doubt that most of the upgrades were all paid for in the year they happened.

What all these people have added to the payroll? I don't know. It has to be in the millions I would think but I don't really know. I also don't know that even if it is that much, that it should have much of an impact on the budget for major league player salaries. The problem is we really don't know much about any of this,so my guesses are probably way off.

By the way, I was responding to spycake but I appreciate mlhouse's input.

Edited by Jim Hahn, 08 January 2019 - 02:31 PM.


#88 caninatl04

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Posted 08 January 2019 - 02:40 PM

Honest question, because I don't read a lot of minor league news/stats/etc outside of stuff posted on here, but is there a reason people are so quick to push for Romero to the pen? It isn't like our starting staff is stacked and it still seems like he has the potential to be a solid starter. Am I missing some other info or what is the reason people want to move him to the pen already?


Romero in the pen in '19 does not preclude Romero in the rotation in '20 and / or '21.
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#89 BJames

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Posted 08 January 2019 - 03:22 PM

We are the Champions!!!!(of non-tenders)


#90 spycake

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Posted 08 January 2019 - 03:25 PM

You are likely basically right about the impact, but the actual dollar increase in spending from the last FO to this one, is probably much larger than you are suggesting. Do you really think a college coach with at least a 4 year degree, most probably at least a master's is going to sign a contract for $50,000? Most college coaches, even small college coaches, are going to be making considerably more than that.

The FO personnel added above previous levels, aren't signing for $50,000 either. The analytics people they signed could likely make a pretty large salary for the right corporation, with bonuses. I doubt that Hunter and Hawkins signed for minimal salaries either.

The other question is how many people above previous levels have they hired? 30, maybe as many as 50? Ryan ran a pretty tight ship. Even if this just gets them to what other clubs are spending, it changes considerably what they were spending. I also doubt that most of the upgrades were all paid for in the year they happened.

What all these people have added to the payroll? I don't know. It has to be in the millions I would think but I don't really know. I also don't know that even if it is that much, that it should have much of an impact on the budget for major league player salaries. The problem is we really don't know much about any of this,so my guesses are probably way off.

By the way, I was responding to spycake but I appreciate mlhouse's input.


Worth keeping in mind that coaches and analytics folks are generally taking significantly less money to work in pro baseball than they could make in another field. Not unlike how most minor league players work for less than they could get elsewhere too, just on a different scale. MLB teams don't have to offer these guys the same pay and benefits that they could make elsewhere -- they are a prestige entertainment industry.

Also, these additional salaries could collectively get "into the millions" like you guess ($1-2-3 million), and that still wouldn't make a meaningful dent relative to a $130 mil MLB player payroll. They certainly aren't spending $10-20-30 million annually on coaches and analytics people, which is generally the amounts that most critics fear they will be below average on MLB payroll. (Mind you, I am not arguing that here myself, just discussing what I think are realistic estimates for other expenses.)

I also think you are perhaps shorting the previous front office. Yes, we know they didn't invest much in analytics, but that was much more of a philosophical resistance than a financial one. And by 2007-2008 they started making notable capital investments in Latin America, Ft. Myers, then Target Field, etc., including that new Dominican academy. The chief financial criticism of the old front office was pretty much the same as the one being leveled against the new one: that they are too low/conservative on MLB payroll.

Frankly, if the new front office is using other expenses as a justification for where they set the MLB payroll, they are probably more like the old front office in that area than they are different.

#91 birdwatcher

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Posted 08 January 2019 - 04:09 PM

 

"Some degree" is probably an incredibly small degree. It's just a reality that MLB player salaries dwarf these other expenditures. Average MLB team payroll is in the range of $130+ million annually. None of the expense items you list could likely equal even 1% of that in a single year.

 

An expense like Elizabethton is a drop in the bucket: $300k upfront, $50k per year for 10 years:

https://www.johnsonc...tadium-upgrades

 

Coaching staff salaries are maybe $50k per year too? Depending on level?

 

And it seems doubtful that there are significant new Statcast costs in 2019 (Target Field was outfitted during the previous regime).

 

The Twins newest Dominican academy was reported as costing $18 mil, but that was 2 years ago (again, the previous regime) and split between the Twins and Phillies: https://www.mlb.com/...emy/c-213683558

 

And it's not as if the average team is investing zero dollars in these things -- they are likely adding new Statcast equipment, new coaches, new facilities too. Even if the Twins are spending above average in these areas now, it's doubtful they are above that average enough to justify any meaningful drop from that $130+ mil average annual player payroll.

 

 

I think this is a helpful synopsis.

 

I'm not privy to what the entire Baseball Operations operating budget is of course. Many many years ago, Carl Pohlad finally gave in to the longstanding and persistent efforts of MacPhail, Billy Smith, and Jim Pohlad and approved an annual budget to build up the international presence. At the time, they were pretty much impotent in terms of relationships, influence and stature in the DR. Carl agreed to a long-range (10-year) plan and strategy to become competitive in the international scouting and player acquisition business, with a critical goal of being a player in the DR. That initial budget put them in the upper echelons of spending in the international category. The initial capital costs, land included, for the Dominican facility was $15M for the Twins. That was in the early stages of a commitment to shoulder higher overall operating costs, in the DR and elsewhere, than a vast majority of franchises. The international allotment decision reduced the value of this initiative, but it's been valuable nonetheless.

 

Knowing this history, it didn't shock me that Jim Pohlad went to his board and got the blessing to bolster the annual operating budget regarding all these development-related initiatives, although it took him too long because he lacked champions of such a move within the organization. I don't know what the numbers are, but I'd venture a guess that when it's all said and done, the Twins will have one of the higher budgets in this area as well.

 

But to your point, Spy, neither their above-average international fixed budget or this new fixed-cost domestic infrastructure is going to cost so much that it will be part of the calculus regarding the variable-cost MLB payroll. They're not even thought of in a similar context.

Edited by birdwatcher, 08 January 2019 - 04:10 PM.

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#92 darin617

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Posted 08 January 2019 - 04:50 PM

Am I the only person shocked when I heard it's another 1 year deal?


#93 Mike Sixel

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Posted 08 January 2019 - 05:59 PM

Am I the only person shocked when I heard it's another 1 year deal?


Nope. They have zero contracts past then. Zero.

It's been a fun year so far, GO Twins. Oh, and I have at least one blog post now......The table on my first blog post is now fixed. Sigh.


#94 Doomtints

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Posted 08 January 2019 - 06:32 PM

Twins season ticket packages are very inexpensive. I think the Twins could charge more for about half the seats in the stadium without affecting attendance that much. Target field tickets are close to what Metrodome tickets cost thirty years ago.

 

Wages are 100% tax deductible, don't forget. I think it would be difficult to spend a franchise into bankruptcy in spite of this being a narrative that gets thrown around. Sure it's happened, but few of us would make the same mistakes if given the chance.

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#95 Mr. Brooks

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Posted 08 January 2019 - 06:58 PM

Am I the only person shocked when I heard it's another 1 year deal?


It's basically 1 year with a team option for a 2nd, as he'd still be under team control in 2020 via arbitration.

#96 Mike Sixel

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Posted 08 January 2019 - 07:08 PM

Twins season ticket packages are very inexpensive. I think the Twins could charge more for about half the seats in the stadium without affecting attendance that much. Target field tickets are close to what Metrodome tickets cost thirty years ago.

Wages are 100% tax deductible, don't forget. I think it would be difficult to spend a franchise into bankruptcy in spite of this being a narrative that gets thrown around. Sure it's happened, but few of us would make the same mistakes if given the chance.


Given that every team is growing in value, and that in the last three decades no one has lost money on a sale, or had a hard time selling, and made huge proofs, the owners have plenty of money. Team values are rising faster than revenues or salaries..... No owner is going broke.
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It's been a fun year so far, GO Twins. Oh, and I have at least one blog post now......The table on my first blog post is now fixed. Sigh.


#97 jokin

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Posted 08 January 2019 - 09:00 PM

 

So who do we DFA?

 

I dunno, take the bottom 6 names, a dart, a dartboard and a blindfold?

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Joyous, fact-based and tireless Twins fan for 40+ years, who unfortunately has been characterized as-

 

"forcing Twins fans to endure more bitter, baseless, and tiresome cheap shots about the Twins FO."


#98 diehardtwinsfan

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Posted 09 January 2019 - 10:22 AM

 

Nope. They have zero contracts past then. Zero.

 

This is somewhat misleading. They have arbitration rights that they will most certainly exercise to a number of contracts past that date. 

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#99 SomeGuy

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Posted 09 January 2019 - 12:13 PM

 

This is an interesting writeup from November on what the Angel's pitching coach Scott Radinsky had to say about Blake Parker (and the rest of his pen).  

Scroll down a bit.

That pitching coach has been let go since then. 

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#100 USAFChief

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Posted 10 January 2019 - 07:46 AM

No actual signing as of yet, right?

Edit: I guess not...four days, seems odd no official confirmation.
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Cutting my carbs...with a pizza slicer.




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