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Vikings Off-Season Thread

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#261 Mike Sixel

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Posted Yesterday, 01:45 PM

 

I think you can land a high second for Waynes.I do that in a heartbeat, but I'm not choosing Hockenson.He's good, but this team has other pressing needs.

 

I said in my offseason wish list I'd like to sign Levitre and trade Waynes to the Bucs for their 2nd.I still love both of those ideas.

 

And who are the CBs the first 4 weeks, while Hill is suspended?

 

also, where were the Chiefs when the Vikes wanted to deal Griffen?

It's IL now, btw, not DL.....


#262 TheLeviathan

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Posted Yesterday, 02:55 PM

 

And who are the CBs the first 4 weeks, while Hill is suspended?

 

also, where were the Chiefs when the Vikes wanted to deal Griffen?

 

Woof, that's the second missed deal with Griffen.  

 

I would have Rhodes, Hughes, Alexander, and a draftee for corners.


#263 Mr. Brooks

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Posted Yesterday, 03:05 PM

Woof, that's the second missed deal with Griffen.

I would have Rhodes, Hughes, Alexander, and a draftee for corners.


That secondary scares the hell out of me. We have no idea what we'll have in Hughes coming off a major injury. And I need to see Alexander repeat his progress from last year before I trust him as anything more than a 4th or 5th corner. And let's not forget that Rhodes was average by some metrics, well below average by others, last year. I know he was banged up, but still.
Holton Hill really burned us with his stupidity, though that's why he fell to UFA in the first place.

#264 Mr. Brooks

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Posted Yesterday, 03:07 PM

Woof, that's the second missed deal with Griffen.

I would have Rhodes, Hughes, Alexander, and a draftee for corners.


Yeah, they better be right on Griffen. I mean, they are around him, and I've never met him, so for now I'll give them the benefit of the doubt.
And, I'm really rooting for him. But, he looked like a shell of his former self when he returned last year. Like a liability, actually.
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#265 TheLeviathan

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Posted Yesterday, 03:08 PM

 

That secondary scares the hell out of me. We have no idea what we'll have in Hughes coming off a major injury. And I need to see Alexander repeat his progress from last year before I trust him as anything more than a 4th or 5th corner. And let's not forget that Rhodes was average by some metrics, well below average by others, last year. I know he was banged up, but still.
Holton Hill really burned us with his stupidity, though that's why he fell to UFA in the first place.

 

It is less sound, but most good defensive coaches can do more with less.I'm tired of having to pour first round picks into Zimmer's defense.He should be able to coach up a 2nd or 3rd round corner into a functional player if need be.

 

If you're telling me this vikings team can have Waynes with the current OL or Risner/Lindstrom with that secondary?I take option number two every time.Even more so if the first round pick is another lineman.

 

(Especially since I see no way this team can keep Rhodes and Waynes beyond this season)

Edited by TheLeviathan, Yesterday, 03:09 PM.


#266 Mr. Brooks

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Posted Yesterday, 03:20 PM

It is less sound, but most good defensive coaches can do more with less. I'm tired of having to pour first round picks into Zimmer's defense. He should be able to coach up a 2nd or 3rd round corner into a functional player if need be.

If you're telling me this vikings team can have Waynes with the current OL or Risner/Lindstrom with that secondary? I take option number two every time. Even more so if the first round pick is another lineman.

(Especially since I see no way this team can keep Rhodes and Waynes beyond this season)

I disagree. 20 years ago, sure. The passing games are so good now, I think it's a myth that a good defensive coach can just "coach up" an average secondary.
Look how long it took Rhodes, Waynes and Alexander to become competent corners. Waynes was awful his first year. That might be the hardest position to just expect to step right into in the modern NFL.
I'm not saying they should spend a high pick on a corner, but I'm not comfortable trading Waynes now.
I'm actually a bit uncomfortable for the first 4 weeks even with Waynes.

Edited by Mr. Brooks, Yesterday, 03:21 PM.


#267 TheLeviathan

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Posted Yesterday, 03:59 PM

I admit, none of the scenarios are ideal.But there is a good chance next year we are down Waynes and Alexander.Meaning we almost have to draft a corner this year anyway.

 

If that guy is going to be our 5th (my scenario) or 6th (your scenario) corner this year doesn't mean as much to me as the value we might next for that 2nd round pick.  


#268 Mr. Brooks

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Posted Yesterday, 04:48 PM

I admit, none of the scenarios are ideal. But there is a good chance next year we are down Waynes and Alexander. Meaning we almost have to draft a corner this year anyway.

If that guy is going to be our 5th (my scenario) or 6th (your scenario) corner this year doesn't mean as much to me as the value we might next for that 2nd round pick.


He'd be your 4th guy for the first 4 weeks.
And it's not just about where that guy slots in, that's the least of my concerns about your plan.
It's where it slots everyone above him.
It moves Hughes into a starting role, instead of nickel. It moves Alexander into a nickel (which is basically a starter now), instead of a dime.
It's also so easy for modern NFL QB's to pick on your weakest link.
We saw that a lot the last couple years when Rhodes or Waynes would get hurt in game. Alexander would come in cold and just get mercilessly picked on.

I understand we may not be able to keep both, but their window is now. And I don't know why they wouldn't be able to keep Alexander. Unless he has a completely break out season, he should be very affordable. His improvement last year was great, but it doesn't erase the 50 shades of awful he was before that.

#269 TheLeviathan

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Posted Yesterday, 04:52 PM

 

He'd be your 4th guy for the first 4 weeks.
And it's not just about where that guy slots in, that's the least of my concerns about your plan.
It's where it slots everyone above him.
It moves Hughes into a starting role, instead of nickel. It moves Alexander into a nickel (which is basically a starter now), instead of a dime.
It's also so easy for modern NFL QB's to pick on your weakest link.
We saw that a lot the last couple years when Rhodes or Waynes would get hurt in game. Alexander would come in cold and just get mercilessly picked on.

I understand we may not be able to keep both, but their window is now. And I don't know why they wouldn't be able to keep Alexander. Unless he has a completely break out season, he should be very affordable. His improvement last year was great, but it doesn't erase the 50 shades of awful he was before that.

 

For me, I'm more comfortable with this team as a Super Bowl contender with Hughes-Rhodes-Alexander-Rookie and two OL in the first two rounds.Or an OL, a CB, and a DT.Some combo of getting three high end players rather than just two and keeping Waynes.

 

Alexander may want to get paid to start on the outside rather than be a slot corner.And the simple truth is we're running out of money to pay anyone. 

 

If we have to draft a corner (and we do, odd as that may seem), I'd rather have him play immediately and flip one of the guys leaving after this year for another player that we can retain going forward. 

 

Like I said, I don't love that decision.I'd have preferred we did it earlier in the offseason when Waynes' 9M could've been put to use in FA.


#270 Vanimal46

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Posted Yesterday, 04:54 PM

When it comes to trading Waynes, it needs to be a 2nd round pick for it to matter. Otherwise it's best to keep him and get a 3rd round comp pick if they lose him in FA.

I think Alexander really turned a corner last year and I'd feel comfortable with him as the starting nickel CB. I don't have a single clue how Hughes' recovery is going, and if he'll be ready to go week 1. If he is, then yeah, let's trade Waynes.
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#271 Mr. Brooks

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Posted Yesterday, 04:59 PM

For me, I'm more comfortable with this team as a Super Bowl contender with Hughes-Rhodes-Alexander-Rookie and two OL in the first two rounds. Or an OL, a CB, and a DT. Some combo of getting three high end players rather than just two and keeping Waynes.

Alexander may want to get paid to start on the outside rather than be a slot corner. And the simple truth is we're running out of money to pay anyone.

If we have to draft a corner (and we do, odd as that may seem), I'd rather have him play immediately and flip one of the guys leaving after this year for another player that we can retain going forward.

Like I said, I don't love that decision. I'd have preferred we did it earlier in the offseason when Waynes' 9M could've been put to use in FA.


I hope we don't have to find out which one of us is right.
I really think that secondary would get torched consistently.

Look at it this way, you basically are saying you would rather trade Waynes for a pick so that we can try to draft 3 high end players rather that 2, right?
Well Waynes is already a high end player. So you don't really net a positive, this year, by trading him. All you get is the opportunity to replace one high end player with another, along with the very real risk that he's replaced with a total dud like Erasmus James or Laquon Treadwell.

#272 TheLeviathan

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Posted Yesterday, 05:31 PM

I hope we don't have to find out which one of us is right.
I really think that secondary would get torched consistently.
Look at it this way, you basically are saying you would rather trade Waynes for a pick so that we can try to draft 3 high end players rather that 2, right?
Well Waynes is already a high end player. So you don't really net a positive, this year, by trading him. All you get is the opportunity to replace one high end player with another, along with the very real risk that he's replaced with a total dud like Erasmus James or Laquon Treadwell.


Yes, but 3 players on our roster for several years as opposed to one about to go. I think Wayne's is good, but replaceable by Hughes or Alexander.

#273 nicksaviking

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Posted Yesterday, 05:46 PM

I hope we don't have to find out which one of us is right.
I really think that secondary would get torched consistently.
Look at it this way, you basically are saying you would rather trade Waynes for a pick so that we can try to draft 3 high end players rather that 2, right?
Well Waynes is already a high end player. So you don't really net a positive, this year, by trading him. All you get is the opportunity to replace one high end player with another, along with the very real risk that he's replaced with a total dud like Erasmus James or Laquon Treadwell.


I don’t want to lose Wayne’s, but I want to lose someone of cap significance because more likely than not, some teams will be parting with useful OL after the draft and I’d like to have the flexibility to get one or two if they’re a fit.

#274 Mr. Brooks

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Posted Yesterday, 05:52 PM

I don’t want to lose Wayne’s, but I want to lose someone of cap significance because more likely than not, some teams will be parting with useful OL after the draft and I’d like to have the flexibility to get one or two if they’re a fit.


Teams don't dump competent offensive linemen.
At best you're getting Tom Compton.

#275 TheLeviathan

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Posted Yesterday, 07:25 PM

 

Teams don't dump competent offensive linemen.
At best you're getting Tom Compton.

 

You're probably right about OL, but there may be other positions that do get cut that would be of use to us.Last year Suh was released at that time.


#276 Mr. Brooks

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Posted Today, 04:36 AM

If we need the cap space, I'd rather dump Rudolph or Griffen than Waynes.