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#41 TheLeviathan

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Posted 01 June 2019 - 08:18 AM

Airlines should have never opened up this can of worms. I agree with y'all. Ban emotional support animals.


They opened that can of worms because an ever growing segment of our population feels entitled to inflict their pets on others. I sorta feel bad for Delta, they are damned if they do and damned if they dont.

#42 SQUIRREL

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Posted 01 June 2019 - 08:23 AM

 

They opened that can of worms because an ever growing segment of our population feels entitled to inflict their pets on others. I sorta feel bad for Delta, they are damned if they do and damned if they dont.

Well, maybe. If it becomes an industry-wide regulation to ban emotional support dogs, people who want to get somewhere will just be forced to either leave their pets at home or find other transportation if they want to take them along. They can dislike it all they want but how did they manage before? I love animals, but owners should not be entitled to inflict them on anyone, especially in a confined, closed space such as an airplane. I could go on and on about this, down to the leash laws in Chicago that too many just ignore because, well, they and their animals don't need to follow laws.

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#43 TheLeviathan

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Posted 01 June 2019 - 08:31 AM

 

Well, maybe. If it becomes an industry-wide regulation to ban emotional support dogs, people who want to get somewhere will just be forced to either leave their pets at home or find other transportation if they want to take them along. They can dislike it all they want but how did they manage before? I love animals, but owners should not be entitled to inflict them on anyone, especially in a confined, closed space such as an airplane. I could go on and on about this, down to the leash laws in Chicago that too many just ignore because, well, they and their animals don't need to follow laws.

 

Perhaps, or perhaps the airlines start getting sued for not allowing them.I'd be willing to bet the problem started as a way to avoid litigation.Especially since many people justify having one with a variety of sympathetic disorders.Airlines are not the only place having this issue - college campuses, apartments, and schools are also having to navigate this.IMO, the best solution is probably legislation to regulate much more tightly who can qualify to even have such an animal and the training required to qualify.  

 

And don't get me started on people and their negligence with leashes.Watching my three year old son be chased through a public park by a "playful" rottweiler will not be an image I forget soon.  

Edited by TheLeviathan, 01 June 2019 - 08:32 AM.


#44 ashbury

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Posted 01 June 2019 - 09:42 AM

Flying as baggage was extremely traumatic for our cat when we moved cross-country. Our vet wasn't very enthused about kitty tranquilizers either. There aren't any good answers as far as we were able to determine. When there are no good answers, people look around for anything.

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#45 SQUIRREL

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Posted 01 June 2019 - 09:54 AM

Flying as baggage was extremely traumatic for our cat when we moved cross-country. Our vet wasn't very enthused about kitty tranquilizers either. There aren't any good answers as far as we were able to determine. When there are no good answers, people look around for anything.


I’m actually fine with small animals that fit in a carrier that fits under the seat in front of them. That has always been the standard. I have friends who went the support animal route when one of their dogs was too big for that and they of course had to take them everywhere.

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#46 PseudoSABR

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Posted 01 June 2019 - 01:42 PM

I like dogs way better than people, so I vote for the dogs to stay.

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#47 biggentleben

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Posted 01 June 2019 - 11:29 PM

 

Mostly I agree. But I don't agree with banning service dogs for the blind. There is a difference between service animals and emotional support animals. The latter most definitely should not be allowed. Too many can very easily abuse that, and do.

 

As someone who has worked in the mental health field and seen dozens of studies on the efficacy of emotional support animals on SPMI, let me say that these words sound extremely like someone arguing to take funding away from food stamps for those who need them because there are some who abuse the system.

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#48 SQUIRREL

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Posted 01 June 2019 - 11:38 PM

As someone who has worked in the mental health field and seen dozens of studies on the efficacy of emotional support animals on SPMI, let me say that these words sound extremely like someone arguing to take funding away from food stamps for those who need them because there are some who abuse the system.


Oh come on, Ben. We are talking about large dogs on a plane. And the man who was recently attacked by such a dog. Trained service dogs don’t do that. Those who require such animals also want better policies.
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#49 biggentleben

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Posted 02 June 2019 - 12:21 AM

 

Oh come on, Ben. We are talking about large dogs on a plane. And the man who was recently attacked by such a dog. Trained service dogs don’t do that. Those who require such animals also want better policies.

 

...and the discussion here has 100% been to eliminate them all from planes. Nothing about better policies or better training or standardized training or any such thing. A former client took her emotional support animal, a German Shepherd, onto a plane to make her first flight in her life, something her illness would have likely made impossible without that extra assistance. She was able to see her mother, who can no longer travel. Excuse me if I don't see it as a flippant, dismiss-able issue.

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#50 TheLeviathan

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Posted 02 June 2019 - 08:58 AM

 

...and the discussion here has 100% been to eliminate them all from planes. Nothing about better policies or better training or standardized training or any such thing. A former client took her emotional support animal, a German Shepherd, onto a plane to make her first flight in her life, something her illness would have likely made impossible without that extra assistance. She was able to see her mother, who can no longer travel. Excuse me if I don't see it as a flippant, dismiss-able issue.

 

I do.Because I'm the one that can't breathe when she brings her dog (or cat) on the plane.

 

Secondly - I did bring up better legislation to regulate these things.In the meantime - yes, eliminate them all from planes.

 

Thirdly - perhaps she and her therapist should've found another way to help her with her nerves on the plane.Last I checked an animal is not the only means by which someone can be reassured through something troubling to them.I, however, have only one means of breathing.And that man only has one face that needed 28 stitches to repair.The idea that you can only get through a plane ride with your pet is supported by no study ever.  

 

No one is contending that animals can't have therapeutic value, they certainly can.But simply because they help someone does not entitle that person to inflict that animal on everyone around them in all situations.When it's necessary, like a service dog, I am completely on board.Those animals are highly trained for specific purposes.In most other situations the person should be working through their mental health needs in a multitude of ways.Their therapy should not require the rest of the populace to adjust to them.That's a bad idea for any number of reasons.

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#51 Mr. Brooks

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Posted 02 June 2019 - 09:48 AM

Not sure if it's logistically possible, but perhaps for common flight routes it would be. Would designating certain flights as support pet friendly work?
Those who are allergic, uncomfortable, or otherwise just don't want to fly with pets have flights that are strictly pet free. Those who want/need them have an option, and those who don't care either way can take either.
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#52 TheLeviathan

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Posted 02 June 2019 - 09:53 AM

Also, it should be noted, there is minimal scientific evidence on the actual good these animals do.I'm not even denying they have some therapeutic value, but it's worth pointing out that there is little science to support the degree to which they are useful.  

 

And this story has a nice anecdote about the problems it is causing for people with service dogs as well as more about the lack of evidence.

 

This entire phenomenon is people putting themselves above the communal good.

Edited by TheLeviathan, 02 June 2019 - 09:56 AM.


#53 SQUIRREL

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Posted 02 June 2019 - 11:02 AM

 

Not sure if it's logistically possible, but perhaps for common flight routes it would be. Would designating certain flights as support pet friendly work?
Those who are allergic, uncomfortable, or otherwise just don't want to fly with pets have flights that are strictly pet free. Those who want/need them have an option, and those who don't care either way can take either.

I think that's a great solution. I also wonder if there should be a parameter on the size of support animals, such as the size limitations of bringing your pets on a flights; dogs would have to be limited in size in the same manner, that they fit in a carrier under the seat in front of you; of course, support animals would be allowed to be in that person's lap, but then you avoid a large dog trying to fit in a space that is too small for the animal. I also read an article where someone suggested requiring support animals be muzzled. There are ways around it. As I said, I do know people who just want to bring their dogs everywhere with them and get the certification so they can. I find that level of entitlement so disrespectful to those who have true needs.

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#54 Mr. Brooks

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Posted 02 June 2019 - 11:22 AM

I think that's a great solution. I also wonder if there should be a parameter on the size of support animals, such as the size limitations of bringing your pets on a flights; dogs would have to be limited in size in the same manner, that they fit in a carrier under the seat in front of you; of course, support animals would be allowed to be in that person's lap, but then you avoid a large dog trying to fit in a space that is too small for the animal. I also read an article where someone suggested requiring support animals be muzzled. There are ways around it. As I said, I do know people who just want to bring their dogs everywhere with them and get the certification so they can. I find that level of entitlement so disrespectful to those who have true needs.


Correct on that last sentence. My sister in law got her dog certified, even though she doesn't need it, so that her landlord couldn't evict her from her pet free building.
She's always been an entitled brat, and even laughs and brags about it at family functions.
I tried to gently question her on what you bring up in your post, "do you feel that is disrespectful and counterproductive towards those that legitimately need support animals?"
Her response was every excuse in the book. "My landlord is a jerk, so who cares... My dog is well behaved, so there is no harm... It's too much of a burden to move... etc,etc.

#55 Craig Arko

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Posted 05 June 2019 - 03:11 AM

Not sure if it's logistically possible, but perhaps for common flight routes it would be. Would designating certain flights as support pet friendly work?
Those who are allergic, uncomfortable, or otherwise just don't want to fly with pets have flights that are strictly pet free. Those who want/need them have an option, and those who don't care either way can take either.


I’d pay extra to be on such a flight even if I wasn’t bringing my own dog.
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#56 Vanimal46

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Posted 28 August 2019 - 10:39 PM

Flying home from San Francisco... 2 people got kicked out of the plane for disorderly behavior. One girl, on some hard core drugs, needed to be carried off the plane by the air Marshall. Can't say I've ever seen that before...

#57 SQUIRREL

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Posted 08 September 2019 - 02:21 PM

And once again I’m on a flight that actually landed early but we are going to arrive late because the departing flight occupying our gate is late to leave. And here we are driving around the airport and all its taxiways, inhaling all these wonderful fumes. I hate flying.
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