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Article: Buxton’s Best Lined Up for Now?

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#21 dxpavelka

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Posted 21 December 2018 - 10:17 PM

 

From the outside, it sure seems like Falvey is adept at alienating and angering key players. Baldelli might have an impossible task trying to keep players feeling comfortable and appreciated while the FO treats even the golden child as a commodity rather than a person.
It was probably the right call to shut down Buxton’s 2018, but only if you could do it in a way that made him feel respected.
I think Falvey failed in this regard and Molitor lost his job for it.
I’m having trouble rooting for this team right now but I’m still pulling for Buxton.

It also seems like said key players are adept at not performing up to expectations.Nothing wrong with the FO calling them out for that instead of leaving it up to the fan base to do so.....


#22 ND-Fan

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Posted 22 December 2018 - 01:32 AM

I don't think Twins fans hate Byron Buxton and i sure don't either and i think he is quality individual when he has been interviewed and what he has shown to public. I have followed his career through minors and all the coaches speak highly of his talents and almost all of them think he has abilitity to become big time player. The two things that have me concerned with him is he's going to have learn to play his aggressive approach to defense but not put himself in positions where he can get hurt seriously. I think over time he can learn this but if he continues like this now it could end his career permanently something I hope I won't have to see. Second thing is his batting and what I am afraid has happened to him is that by his pure athleticism he has been able to hit without having to do much with identifying pitches and being able to work counts to his favor where his abilities are at advantage.I think he can learn this but its going to take time and being able to hit at the big leagues because he has proven he can hit next level below. The problem has been he hasn't been healthy enough to keep playing and second is he needs to work through this and I wonder if any Major league team will let him have this many at bats to learn this. The Twins have been a team with poor records we have experienced in the past should have had him up here working on this but here's the problem with that they don't want to give up service time to potential star player. So now we have player where fan base is wondering and up in arms on this high prospect why he's not performing and second we have player that's need confidence and belief in himself than he can do this. The Twins gave up on his predecessor in Hicks too because they thought he wasn't develop into the player they thought her would be and traded him now with a new club he had developed into the player we first thought we had. The fan base had all but given up on him when he was here and now everyone has opinion why did they trade him. That's the problem with baseball there is not a lot of patience on developing players by teams or fans because we all think that baseball players all develop the same way. Even the stats people are wrong on this look at many of the star players today some took longer to develop but they had long and very productive careers going later playing above the normal curve for a player. Buxton needs time and see if he can put all this together because of his talent he can still be above average player with just his defense and speed because every time he gets on he's basically in scoring position with his speed. Second his defense is probably going to save you at least 1 run a game so again high value to your pitching and your ability to win a game. Lets hope he can put it together. 

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#23 AlwaysinModeration

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Posted 22 December 2018 - 05:23 AM

Could they purposely tank it here to get traded? Hick tanked, got traded and went on to a play-off team. Dozier tanked went to the WS.


Hicks posted an OPS of .787 in the second half of 2015 before he was traded.

Dozier played worse with the Dodgers than he did with the Twins (which was saying something).

Anyway, I disagree with your premise.
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#24 old nurse

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Posted 22 December 2018 - 05:56 AM

 

Hicks posted an OPS of .787 in the second half of 2015 before he was traded.

Dozier played worse with the Dodgers than he did with the Twins (which was saying something).

Anyway, I disagree with your premise.

Hicks would have been tanking his first year as a Yankee.

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#25 Thebigalguy

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Posted 22 December 2018 - 07:23 AM

These two young B men are crucial cogs in a dysfunctional machine. Buxton is aces in the field and on the basepaths and alligator meal at the plate. Baldelli is an Italian pony without Molitor’s experience or wisdom who wants to be a stallion like Mollie. Stranger things have happened. Baldelli is wise to court Byron. Without a resurgence from the B Man, the jigsaw puzzle at Target Field will remain an unholy mess and these B men will be playing to the peanut gallery. Time, which is short, will tell.
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#26 ewen21

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Posted 22 December 2018 - 07:29 AM

 

These two young B men are crucial cogs in a dysfunctional machine. Buxton is aces in the field and on the basepaths and alligator meal at the plate. Baldelli is an Italian pony without Molitor’s experience or wisdom who wants to be a stallion like Mollie. Stranger things have happened. Baldelli is wise to court Byron. Without a resurgence from the B Man, the jigsaw puzzle at Target Field will remain an unholy mess and these B men will be playing to the peanut gallery. Time, which is short, will tell.

Baldelli is an Italian ponyWTF???

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#27 BBAM

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Posted 22 December 2018 - 07:58 AM

 

Hicks posted an OPS of .787 in the second half of 2015 before he was traded.

Dozier played worse with the Dodgers than he did with the Twins (which was saying something).

Anyway, I disagree with your premise.

I am glad you disagree but we keep having promising players get traded and then "turn the corner".Why would they trade Hicks?If Buxton and Sano have another bad year then what? 


#28 BBAM

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Posted 22 December 2018 - 08:10 AM

Does any one have an idea on where Dozier will land?Is he in a tough spot or will some team grab him?


#29 Thebigalguy

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Posted 22 December 2018 - 09:52 AM

 

Does any one have an idea on where Dozier will land?Is he in a tough spot or will some team grab him?

I think he's in a tough spot, given his age, 32 by start of season, and how much he fell off at the plate (and, to a lesser degree, in the field) with the Dodgers after a hot first week or so. I was reading a fan line where there was speculation about how he might fit a Yankees lineup. I like Dozier's steadiness and fire, but he didn't do himself any favors when you look at his stats. I'm just happy for him that he got a chance to be a part of their playoff run, even if he mostly sat on the bench.

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#30 howieramone2

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Posted 22 December 2018 - 10:47 AM

 

I am glad you disagree but we keep having promising players get traded and then "turn the corner".Why would they trade Hicks?If Buxton and Sano have another bad year then what? 

Actually we don't.

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#31 Doomtints

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Posted 22 December 2018 - 12:19 PM

We have seen Buxton play. We know he isn't a quitter. Having him sit out the last month was obviously going to rub him the wrong way and was a gross miscalculation by the Twins.

 

None of this means he will instantly play well next year, that this was a "wake up call" or whatever -- because as I said, Buxton was never a quitter. The problem is something else, and by sending him home the Twins lost the opportunity to figure out what the problem actually is. The Twins did not have to play him over the last month, but they certainly had to work with him.

Edited by Doomtints, 22 December 2018 - 12:28 PM.

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#32 Doomtints

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Posted 22 December 2018 - 12:30 PM

 

I am glad you disagree but we keep having promising players get traded and then "turn the corner".Why would they trade Hicks?If Buxton and Sano have another bad year then what? 

 

Hicks was terrible his first year as a Yankee. I credit Hicks's turnaround to the Yankees hitting coaches who figured out the issue and turned him around.

 

Hicks would have never turned the corner in a Twins uniform.

Edited by Doomtints, 22 December 2018 - 12:31 PM.

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#33 Lee-The-Twins-Fan

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Posted 22 December 2018 - 01:01 PM

Never say never.

 


#34 mlhouse

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Posted 22 December 2018 - 02:55 PM

 

Rosario, Buxton and Kepler could be the best outfield in baseball for the next ten years.The Twins coaches need to find a way to get each playing the way they are capable of.Then management needs to get them signed to contracts that will keep them here.

 

As for Rooker, Kirilloff, Larnach and others.The fact remains that none of them are likely to be better than any of this trio if they each reach their personal ceilingsThey also are all still in the minors and some won't reach the ceilings we are all hoping for.For those that do, there will be ways to get them into the lineup.   

 

If Rosario, Buxton, and Kepler are as good as the Twins can get in the OF, then we might as well give up now.

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#35 DocBauer

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Posted 22 December 2018 - 09:04 PM

If Rosario, Buxton, and Kepler are as good as the Twins can get in the OF, then we might as well give up now.


Going to have to disagree here. Potential is both a beautiful and ugly word. Rosario flashed, and then broke through in 2017. He was performing just as well before struggling with injury the second half in 2018. The 25yo Kepler has also flashed, showing off his athleticism and "potential", mixed in with weird splits and maddening inconsistency. Despite being a more natural corner OF rather than a true CF, the lessons of Hunter, Gomez and Hicks should apply to him as well. To dismiss him this early would be a big mistake.

THEN, of course, there is the enigma of Buxton. Keith Law, I believe it was, responded to a question on a posted tweet as to what was wrong with Buxton. His response was; "Nothing. He was hurt all of last year." A simplistic and maybe even flippant answer? One could easily say yes. But despite some struggles and some rather pathetic flailing we saw last season, his "potential" and very strong finish in 2017 can't and shouldn't be ignored. I make no excuses, he still has to go out and play and perform. But even if the migraine problems early last season is dismissed as controllable and preventable with medication/treatment, the foot injury, trying or being forced to play with it, and then followed up by a wrist injury, I'm just not sure what anyone should have expected from Buxton last season.

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#36 mlhouse

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Posted 22 December 2018 - 09:09 PM

 

Going to have to disagree here. Potential is both a beautiful and ugly word. Rosario flashed, and then broke through in 2017. He was performing just as well before struggling with injury the second half in 2018. The 25yo Kepler has also flashed, showing off his athleticism and "potential", mixed in with weird splits and maddening inconsistency. Despite being a more natural corner OF rather than a true CF, the lessons of Hunter, Gomez and Hicks should apply to him as well. To dismiss him this early would be a big mistake.

THEN, of course, there is the enigma of Buxton. Keith Law, I believe it was, responded to a question on a posted tweet as to what was wrong with Buxton. His response was; "Nothing. He was hurt all of last year." A simplistic and maybe even flippant answer? One could easily say yes. But despite some struggles and some rather pathetic flailing we saw last season, his "potential" and very strong finish in 2017 can't and shouldn't be ignored. I make no excuses, he still has to go out and play and perform. But even if the migraine problems early last season is dismissed as controllable and preventable with medication/treatment, the foot injury, trying or being forced to play with it, and then followed up by a wrist injury, I'm just not sure what anyone should have expected from Buxton last season.

 

If Kiriloff etc et al are not at least as good as Rosario, we are in trouble.We are a sub-500 club and if our upcoming prospects are not better than the team we field now this is going to be a forever rebuild.

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#37 DocBauer

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Posted 22 December 2018 - 10:09 PM

If Kiriloff etc et al are not at least as good as Rosario, we are in trouble.We are a sub-500 club and if our upcoming prospects are not better than the team we field now this is going to be a forever rebuild.


Ah, Kiriloff, I like him very much! (Tip of the cap to our man Cerano, LOL).

On a more serious note, I think the Twins got a real steal in Khirilloff. Despite being perhaps the best HS bat in the draft, he slid to the Twins at 17, IIRC. Why I don't know, but I'm sure glad he did! What he did in 2018 was impressive. To do what he did after missing the entire season before makes it doubly impressive!

Badoo has all the potential in the world, it seems. (There's that beautiful but ugly word again). But "potential" shouldn't be dismissed when talking about 25yo and younger ballplayers. Potential only becomes ugly when the obvious point of "nope" is clearly reached.

The early returns on Larnach are very good. I still feel Wade has a chance to be Lawton-like with just a little more seasoning. Davis could have a shot. Despite a long road to travel, (figuratively and literally), despite an injury lost season, I find Whitefield to enormously intriguing. Obviously, there are others.

We are all hopeful but immensely frustrated. But context should also be used. To look back 5 years, or longer, as some do, is misguided. There's not a single player on this team from that time frame. (Unless I've forgotten someone). Not to mention a new FO, a revamped field staff, behind the scenes changes, a fun and surprising 2017 season before the mess that was 2018 due to many factors still produced 78 wins.

No rose colored glasses. 2018 was a bitter disappointment. And I am absolutely NOT going to through everything that went wrong last year. But if you had told me ahead of time what was going to happen, I would have predicted a 100 loss team.

I get all that you are saying, and I appreciate your opinions. And we do need and want better players. Some are on their way, some will be added. But many of those players are already here. It's a question of being healthy and for Rocco and his staff to get the most out of them. This conversation began, essentially, in regard to the OF. Despite Khirilloff and others, a healthy Rosario, Buxton and Kepler playing to their potential, or at least beginning to reach it as a collection of 27yo and a pair of 25yo OF would absolutely not be part of the problem.
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"Nice catch Hayes...don't ever f*****g do it again."

 

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#38 The_Phantom

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Posted 23 December 2018 - 07:13 AM

“Rocco was vastly superior to Byron numerical at this stage in their careers.”

“He then got in less than 40 games in 2007 and 2008 due to an undiagnosed medical condition.”

“It was the mitochondrial channelopathy that would also abruptly end his career as a 28-year-old in 2010.”

“Minnesota’s front office was cutthroat, and the player was within his rights to feel like it sucked.”

Typos, grammatical errors, unnecessary thesaurus use, and awkward informality all within about 1.5 paragraphs. Man, this was a brutally bad read.

Anyway, Buxton has been a fan exercise in frustration. He definitely still has the time and raw ability, but he has a long way to go. And there’s no point in denying that his beyond atrocious 2018 was one of the 3 or 4 main reasons the twins underperformed (Sano and Molitor being two of the equally obvious ones). Buxton pulled off an Amazing feat to have a negative wRC+.

I really want to feel like if he doesn’t turn the corner this year, it’s time to move on. But the twins lack of major offseason activity definitely doesn’t indicate that they are in any kind of “win now” mentality so I’m sure we’ll see him continue to be given all the time he needs to adjust. Hopefully he eventually will
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#39 ewen21

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Posted 23 December 2018 - 08:05 AM

The notion that the Twins are supposed to shepard Buxton through his fifth season in the majors is instructive. It is just another indicator that he still doesn't have the mental aspect of the game down. If he starts off like a train wreck again then what? He has been given the job, but let's not ignore the fact he has starred off rack of the last three seasons horribly.

What would be the cause of that? Everyone talks about his work ethic and amazing athletic ability. When then could it be? He's admitted to being nervous several times. I'm wondering when or if he's going get past this. He also seems to have a mental block about playing in Yankee Stadium. One hit in like 25 at bats and tons of Ks. Just another coincidence?

Not sure how we can brag about his athleticism and work ethic without wondering about what's going on between the ears. He strikes as a guy who is easily rattled. That interview at the children's hospital didn't make me feel differently.

Dude needs to put on the big boy pants. He said HE won't sugarcoat things so why sugarcoat for him any longer? He needs to be accountable for his terrible bat. It's on him now.

#40 ewen21

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Posted 23 December 2018 - 08:06 AM

Ok did that last post on my phone in the airport. Sorry for the typos



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