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Article: Twins Sign 2B Jonathan Schoop

jonathan schoop.
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#121 Riverbrian

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Posted 07 December 2018 - 12:50 PM

If the plan for 2019 doesn't involve being competitive, why sign Schoop? Just give the job to Gordon.


Service Time.

I know the minute I talk about service time being a factor, I get a string of responses back saying that it doesn’t matter but to the front offices... it does and it’s why the one year deal is important.

Gordon isnt ready and by the time he is ready... we could be 3 years deep into his service time letting him fail at the MLB level. They have 3 years to make a decision on Gordon. He might be ready this year... he might ready in 2021 or never ready. Signing Schoop or whoever to a one year deal provides an exit if Gordon establishes himself filling in for injury.

Giving Gordon the job and saying “Ok Learn” would be the same mistake they made with Hicks.
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#122 Loosey

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Posted 07 December 2018 - 01:13 PM

This doesn't look like one of those "bargain basement" deals to me.To me this looks like a deal where the Twins like what they have in the minors and don't want to over pay for someone when the replacement is already in the minors or sitting at SS already.  

 

I think Schoop is a good hitter could be a very good signing.

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#123 Loosey

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Posted 07 December 2018 - 01:22 PM

I also think a lot of us are making a bit too much of a big deal about Schoop.Even if the Twins signed Joe Morgan to play 2nd base it is not going to matter if Buxton and Sano crash a burn again.


#124 ashbury

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Posted 07 December 2018 - 01:37 PM

I also think a lot of us are making a bit too much of a big deal about Schoop.Even if the Twins signed Joe Morgan to play 2nd base it is not going to matter if Buxton and Sano crash a burn again.

True. But worst-case is not why you build a roster.

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#125 birdwatcher

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Posted 07 December 2018 - 02:24 PM

Scenario #1: Derek and Thad call a meeting with the Professional Scouting Department

 

 

Derek: "Good morning everyone. You've now all had plenty of time to do your homework on the list of possible free agent candidates for second base. You've had a chance to review the medicals of each candidate and ask questions of our medical and training people. We hope that you've once again honored our request to refrain from having a discussion amongst yourselves about these candidates to avoid group-think. You'll recall that at yesterday's meeting, when we discussed shortstop candidates, the consensus recommendation was that we pass on all candidates. All the 2B candidates have flaws, but unlike with the SS exercise, where we asked you to recommend any candidate you thought would provide us with better overall production than Polanco, we're asking a different question today, as you all know. The question again is, which of the available FA candidates do you believe would give us the best overall production in 2019? Our candidates again are Lowrie, La Mahieu, Kinzler, Murphy, and Schoop."

 

Unanimous chorus from the room: "Schoop".

 

Derek: "Thank you. Then that's who we'll pursue."

 

Scenario #2: Thad and Derek call a meeting with the Analytics Department.

 

Thad: "Good morning everyone. We've asked you to calculate a projected WAR-to-dollar ratio for each of the second base candidates based on market projections regarding the required financial commitment extended out over the predicted contract length required for each candidate and recommend the best candidate based on value. What have you fellow geeks come up with?"

 

Unanimous chorus from the room: "Schoop."

 

Derek: "That's nice to hear, because he's our first choice."

Edited by birdwatcher, 07 December 2018 - 02:43 PM.

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#126 jkcarew

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Posted 07 December 2018 - 03:03 PM

Seems reasonable. Like some others, I wouldn't have minded more than a one-year deal given his age and (pre-2018) record.But then, maybe it was a combination of Schoop wanting to bet on himself, and the Twins FO still betting on Gordon.

 

It's hard to wrap my head around a second-baseman (who can actually play the position) as large as Schoop is. If we had Corey Seager instead of Polanco, we'd have almost 1000 pounds of infield (not counting catcher). It's worth taking to marketing. The half-ton infield...the F-150 infield, maybe. Worth a try.

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#127 ewen21

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Posted 07 December 2018 - 03:07 PM

 

Yikes at our middle infield defense between Schoop and Polanco staying at short because of this

What are you talking about?

He is a middle of the road defender by almost any measure:

https://www.fangraph...lter=&players=0

Certainly better than Dozier by any measure last year.Polanco isn't terrible at short either.

 

Both are adaquate fielders, not "yikes"

 

Dozier sucked last year and there were a lot of people thinking he should have gotten an extension.I wasn't one of themI like this pickup.What the heck is so wrong with it?

 

I just cannot understand the reaction (overreaction) to this or the Cron deal.

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#128 Mike Sixel

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Posted 07 December 2018 - 03:45 PM

I recognize the inherent risk based on his woeful Brewers performance last year but if you are looking a player trying to repair himself and if successful... that production for a year is meaningful.

But if you feel different that’s ok


I think it is worth the risk. I think it helps this team long term not at all. Without huge changes, this isn't a playoff team. So, this just doesn't do anything for me.
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#129 markos

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Posted 07 December 2018 - 04:07 PM

I dislike this move for three reasons:

 

First, I don't like the fact that the Brewer's - a front office that has nailed way more transactions than the Twins in the past two years - had an opportunity to tender him a contract (with a need at the position) and basically said, "thanks, but no thanks." 

 

Second, this move (combined with the Cron signing and all the moves last offseason) just give the impression that the front office thinks the core of this team is fine, and all they need to do is backfill on the margins. And I just disagree with that so strongly. This core is good and has upside, but it needs to complemented with more players that are stars, or at least solidly above-average. Last season, the gap in talent between the Twins and the top teams in the league was roughly 20-25 WAR. Even in you pencil in huge rebounds from Sano and Buxton, this team still has a big talent gap. In fact, the gap is large enough that it will probably be a multi-year project to close that gap. Which is why it is all the more important to be making moves that will pay off in 2020 and 2021 as well as this coming year. Schoop and Cron, while fine in a vacuum, at best replace Escobar's and Mauer's production from last year. And neither move really helps next season. This team is just spinning its wheels.

 

Third, since I feel like this is just a move to maintain the status quo, I don't see the need to be a first-mover in the 2B market when there are like 8 roughly league-average options available in free agency. They are really betting on Schoop for some reason. 

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#130 Riverbrian

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Posted 07 December 2018 - 04:10 PM

I think it is worth the risk. I think it helps this team long term not at all. Without huge changes, this isn't a playoff team. So, this just doesn't do anything for me.


Playoff? No idea from me but I do firmly believe that the core is capable of leading the way. It’s going to be up to them and I’m all for throwing support that direction in case it happens.

7M... eh... it’s only money.
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#131 Mike Sixel

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Posted 07 December 2018 - 05:05 PM

 

Playoff? No idea from me but I do firmly believe that the core is capable of leading the way. It’s going to be up to them and I’m all for throwing support that direction in case it happens.

7M... eh... it’s only money.

 

It's a roster spot on a guy that doesn't help past this year. Again. This is no way to build a sustainably competitive team.

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#132 BBAM

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Posted 07 December 2018 - 05:28 PM

Why didn’t they go for Goldscmmidt?

#133 cmoss84

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Posted 07 December 2018 - 05:29 PM

What is everyone's expectations for Schoop? If he hits .250 with 25 HRs and plays average to slightly above average defense are you going to be upset?

 

 

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#134 Monkeypaws

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Posted 07 December 2018 - 05:45 PM

The Twins new right side of the infield hit over 50 HR last season. 12 million outlaid, and the defense is at least average. Mmmkay. You gotta put a team on the field.

 

Don't get the hate for the 1 year deal - as Dozier showed us the last couple seasons, 2nd basemen are a dime a dozen. 

 

Short term seems like the better play to me - Buxton, Sano, catcher, bullpen, even Kepler and the back-end of the rotation are all ??? at this point. The elite prospects are still a year away at least. Berrios, Rosario, + ?

 

See if we have a core to build from and proceed. Not a lot of proven track record out there.

 

At the least, they've gotten younger and likely hungrier.

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#135 Sconnie

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Posted 07 December 2018 - 06:38 PM

It's a roster spot on a guy that doesn't help past this year. Again. This is no way to build a sustainably competitive team.

doesnt that depend on what they do with the rest of the roster needs? If Falvine were to swing a trade for an Arb 1 or 3-4 year contract starter and sign a couple high end relievers would you be so down on Schoop? I would have preferred Marwin to a multi year deal, but at least Schoop’s got something to prove.

#136 less cowbell more neau

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Posted 07 December 2018 - 07:32 PM

 

 

Your Minnesota Twins sign Schoop's old buddy Manny for 10 years $320M

 

Manny being Manny in Minny!

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#137 birdwatcher

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Posted 07 December 2018 - 07:46 PM

I really don't understand the angst about this decision. I've tried to figure out what I'm missing. Please help me if I missed an argument against the move:

 

1. There were better FA options available. Okay, maybe, but that's disputable. It kinda depends on what you predict you'll see from Schoop, LaMahieu, Murphy... Maybe the FO disagrees with you.

 

2. The 1-year deal is too short. Because? If one believes Lewis is ready in 2020, that Polanco can be moved to 2B? Or that Gordon will be ready? Otr that Schoop won't re-sign? Or that a QO comp pick isn't good? Or that he can't be flipped? Do you really think a guy who WANTS a 1-year deal is going to pout like Lynn and Morrison, who wanted multi-year deals for boatloads more than they got? I don't see the downside here even if he's a one-and-done. So what if he doesn't help past 2019?

 

3. It's a sign they're punting on 2019. Well, let's wait on that thought. If they punt on the RP options, then I'll agree with this. Opinions vary here, but plenty of us believe that with 2-3 more smart decisions, and the Buxton/Sano thing, things could get better fast. Yes, it will take a Soria/Robertson/Cutch/ Bour (bye bye to Austin) type signing spree, but let's wait and see. 

 

4. I hate everything they do and I'm never happy. Well, you got me there. Hadn't considered that angle.

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#138 AlwaysinModeration

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Posted 07 December 2018 - 08:41 PM

doesnt that depend on what they do with the rest of the roster needs? If Falvine were to swing a trade for an Arb 1 or 3-4 year contract starter and sign a couple high end relievers would you be so down on Schoop? I would have preferred Marwin to a multi year deal, but at least Schoop’s got something to prove.


I know there is a lot of clamoring for Marwin “Mr. Versatile” González around here. Just want to do a reality check. Career stats:

Schoop: 256/294/444, 11.5 career WAR, 27 years old, six seasons (minors/majors) >780 OPS

González: 264/318/419, 12 career WAR, 30 years old, three seasons (minors/majors) > 780 OPS

Marwin also hit over .300 two years ago...during a season he hit .343 on balls in play.

Maybe I’m reading the numbers wrong, but to me, I’d rather put my chips on Schoop having a better 2019 than Gonzalez.
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#139 yarnivek1972

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Posted 07 December 2018 - 08:46 PM

If the plan for 2019 doesn't involve being competitive, why sign Schoop? Just give the job to Gordon.


A better question is if the Twins don’t plan to be competitive in 2019, why wasn’t Gibson dealt at the deadline? He would have brought in at least one blue chip prospect as opposed to the roster of project prospects they in fact acquired.


The lack of a clear, cohesive, consistent direction by this FO remains concerning.

#140 AlwaysinModeration

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Posted 07 December 2018 - 08:53 PM

Another guy who seems to be a preferred option to posters here is Jed Lowrie:

262/335/414, 17.6 career WAR, 35 years old. Six seasons (majors/minors) hitting 780+, Including the last two years hitting 800 plus.

He might be better than Schoop, but it’s probably a toss-up at best, going into his 35-year old season, he’s likely to start declining pretty fast. Is he the guy you want to sign to a multi-year contract?

To me, Daniel Murphy is the only clear upgrade over Schoop. And 1)I’m not sure Murphy would be a regular at 2B, and 2)they could still sign him (2b/1B/DH). Of course, he’s more expensive than Schoop, and that extra money could go towards relievers, for example.
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