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Article: Twins Sign 2B Jonathan Schoop

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#81 yarnivek1972

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Posted 06 December 2018 - 10:03 PM

His career is kinda similar to another free agent second baseman that we know welll. But Schoop is 3-4 years younger. Wonder how this will impact the market for the other second basemen.

Edited by yarnivek1972, 06 December 2018 - 10:03 PM.


#82 snap4birds

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Posted 06 December 2018 - 10:14 PM

Combined with the Cron signing, my impression is the front office is taking half steps.If things work out & several of Cron, Schoop, Sano, Buxton, Kepler have their "Dr. Jekyll" version early in 2019, this could be a team in contention that makes an upgrade in July, trading some of their prospect depth.(Sort of assuming that there will be at minimum a bullpen addition or two yet this offseason.) If most of these guys have their "Mr. Hyde" version in 2019, it will be a selloff at the deadline again.  

 

I can't say I really blame them....when I look at the Twins roster I don't see a lot of 'sure things'.There are just so many guys that have question marks.But there are a lot of guys younger than 30.I think several are going to really excel next year.If I had to guess, I'd pick the older ones entering their prime years like Schoop, Kepler, etc.And I think Sano will mash.But I don't think there are enough established producers that it would make sense to go all in.Only 6 guys that reached 2 bWAR last year are on the roster right now, and none reached 4.

 

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#83 AceWrigley

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Posted 06 December 2018 - 10:24 PM

We might end up leading the league in solo homers and strikeouts. Yikes. When did Dave Kingman become the poster child of MLB offense?


#84 Mike Sixel

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Posted 06 December 2018 - 10:52 PM

I for one really like this signing. It's the type of buy low, high ceiling type of signing that I always wanted Ryan to try more of.


It's for one year. What does this actually help with?

I remain hopeful on Buxton and Sano.....but I'd not bet the franchise on them.


#85 h2oface

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Posted 07 December 2018 - 03:14 AM

 

Here are career stats:

Dozier: 246/324/444, 31 years old
Schoop: 258/294/444, 27 years old

Schoop hits for a bit better average, Dozier gets on base a decent amount more, they have the same exact power, and Schoop is four years younger. I’ll take the guy going into his 27 year old season for a one year $7.5mm year deal, sounds good to me.

 

Career lines are often noted when players are coming off a year of drastic decline. The future doesn't care about career stats, though. The teams that had both of these guys last year..... all 4 of them.... cast them off and don't want them back. The teams and management the most familiar with them. Sure, any player could have a comeback year. Maybe they both will. But I can't not pay attention the the recent trend. Hopefully Schoop will be the first pick up by this front office that really shines. I'm not betting any money on it, though.


#86 akmanak

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Posted 07 December 2018 - 03:51 AM

This does nothing to excite me and it is on par with the Twins and how they have been for the last forever seasons regarding FA. They have not helped our pitching at all and continue to put band aids on a damn that has been leaking for sometime.

#87 AlwaysinModeration

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Posted 07 December 2018 - 04:44 AM

Career lines are often noted when players are coming off a year of drastic decline. The future doesn't care about career stats, though. The teams that had both of these guys last year..... all 4 of them.... cast them off and don't want them back. The teams and management the most familiar with them. Sure, any player could have a comeback year. Maybe they both will. But I can't not pay attention the the recent trend. Hopefully Schoop will be the first pick up by this front office that really shines. I'm not betting any money on it, though.


Schoop’s batting average on balls in play in 2018 was 261, down from 330 in 2017 and down from his career average of 296.

And yes, when a player has a down year, it is in fact very useful to look at his career numbers. This seems like an obvious thing to say, but players usually produce closer to their career numbers than outlier years, especially those skewed by low batting average on balls in play, which is flukey, but over time generally gravitates towards .300.

Finally, and again feels somewhat obvious to say, players generally post their peak numbers during their prime age, which is generally, looking at the vast majority of players, during their age 27-29 seasons.

Schoop is 27.

Incidentally,
Cron is 29.
Garver is 28.
Austin is 27.
Rosario is 27.
Kepler is 26.
Sano is 26.
Polanco is 25.
Buxton is 25.
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#88 ewen21

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Posted 07 December 2018 - 05:02 AM

 

Kinda feels like a Terry Ryan signing... 

Kinda how?Can you name a single player he signed at this point in their career arc?Guys like Jose Offerman, Tony Bautista, Mike Lamb, Craig Monroe, Rondell White, Adam Everett......(let us not forget Jason Bartlet signed to "improve chemistry").Ryan signed guys on the last stop in their career.Those are the kinds of guys he signed.To say Cron and Schoop are "same old Twins" signings is inaccurate and unfair.While I am not doing cartwheels, I am actually pleased with these signings.The idea that we need to hand out gigantic contracts and sign guys into their lat3 30's and even 40's are even more ridiculous than the kinds of signings Ryan made.

 

Teams in our own division (with payrolls lower than ours) have made World Series appearances.It can be done with the right signings.There seems to be a percentage of Twins fans who want us to do a blockbuster signing just to see the Twins do it.I am not one of those Twins fans.

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#89 Mr. Brooks

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Posted 07 December 2018 - 06:44 AM

Agreed about Ryan, but this is not quite a buy "low" signing.

Other than the arbitration yet to be determined guys, Schoop's salary without incentives is the 4th highest in this team and depending on the incentives might be the highest...

Just sayin' ;)


Where his salary ranks on the roster has nothing to do with whether he was bought low or not.
He's coming off a disastrous season, and was non tendered a year after getting MVP votes. If he were hitting the open market after 2017, he'd get 5+ years and $80+ million. It's absolutely buying low.
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#90 Mr. Brooks

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Posted 07 December 2018 - 06:46 AM

It's for one year. What does this actually help with?


Winning games in 2019. Flipping him for assets if he has a bounce back and they aren't winning games. Exclusive negotiating window after the season if it's a good fit for both sides. Hopefully competent bridge to Gordon/Arraez/Lewis if one or more are ready by 2020.
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#91 old nurse

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Posted 07 December 2018 - 06:57 AM

From the where are we now thread there was the report they were looking at the medicals and dollars of 3-4 players. To those curious as to who those players were, they found out 2 of them.

The aged and aging veteran MI available and preferred by many here would be more likely to be looking for security in a contract. Length is security. With Gordon and Lewis coming it is not unreasonable for the front office to look at one year players. A one year player in free agency is going to have a few warts. For Schoop it is a slightly lower than average OBP but he has a higher woba for is career. Woba, if the stat guys are correct, is a little more indicative of runs scoring than OBP Schoop having a bounce back year or better will be adequate at 2b. He likely will not be as good as Murphy or Lowrie, but his contract reflects that. If they use the money to sign back end RP rather than5th inning players hoping to be back end pitchers the club will be ahead. That was IF.

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#92 Riverbrian

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Posted 07 December 2018 - 07:04 AM

 

It's for one year. What does this actually help with?

 

Mike,

 

What if Schoop only wanted to sign a 1 year deal?

 

He's 27 and was surprisingly granted free agency coming off a disaster in Milwaukee.

 

If I'm his Agent.. I'd advise him to do a 1 year deal to get his production back and then work on the pay day the next off season. 

 

If Schoop only wanted to sign a 1 year deal... would you say "I'm sorry only a two year deal is what we are offering"? 

 

 

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#93 killertwinfan

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Posted 07 December 2018 - 07:13 AM

 

I can't wait to see what Brian Dozier ends up signing a contract for?

My thoughts exactly.I suppose Dozier won't sign with the Twins no matter what??? I doubt he gets much more, maybe $9M??


#94 killertwinfan

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Posted 07 December 2018 - 07:14 AM

At this point we still do not have a starting second baseman.IF someone is going to bat .200, I would like a glove.Sure he is worth a trial run but how will you know at the end of spring training?We could be rolling with Adrianza at this point.  


#95 Doctor Wu

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Posted 07 December 2018 - 07:50 AM

 

Oh boy! a 1 year deal.....they really know how to build for the long term!

Yeah, I can relate to the frustration. A 1 year deal certainly doesn't give the team much to plan with. But I see this more of a gap year move, waiting to see if Gordon can get it together by 2020.


#96 RatherBeGolfing

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Posted 07 December 2018 - 07:53 AM

Yikes at our middle infield defense between Schoop and Polanco staying at short because of this


#97 deanlambrecht

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Posted 07 December 2018 - 08:01 AM

Feels like with this and Torreyes we're still just bottom feeding.I know we only need a short term solution but still, frustrating.

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#98 Monkeypaws

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Posted 07 December 2018 - 08:15 AM

 

It's for one year. What does this actually help with?

The upcoming season?

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#99 Moosa105

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Posted 07 December 2018 - 08:40 AM

Terrible signing and proving once again this is the same old Twins that we are used too. Absolutely no changes to the pitching or bullpen staff.


That’s what the winter meetings are for...
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#100 Mike Sixel

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Posted 07 December 2018 - 08:49 AM

Mike,

What if Schoop only wanted to sign a 1 year deal?

He's 27 and was surprisingly granted free agency coming off a disaster in Milwaukee.

If I'm his Agent.. I'd advise him to do a 1 year deal to get his production back and then work on the pay day the next off season.

If Schoop only wanted to sign a 1 year deal... would you say "I'm sorry only a two year deal is what we are offering"?


Then don't sign him. This does not fix anything meaningful. Or sign him, but trade Gibson. Because they aren't doing anything meaningful.
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I remain hopeful on Buxton and Sano.....but I'd not bet the franchise on them.