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Article: Twins Sign 2B Jonathan Schoop

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#41 gunnarthor

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Posted 06 December 2018 - 05:46 PM

This feels like a stand pat deal - which goes with what the FO has been claiming anyways. They're aren't going to make the big needed deals until they see what they have in Sano and Buxton.*But this team could've made better moves to improve the MI. Not a big fan of this move.

 

 

*Then they won't be able to make big deals b/c they have to save the money for Sano and Buxton.

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#42 Mike Sixel

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Posted 06 December 2018 - 05:48 PM

 

This feels like a stand pat deal - which goes with what the FO has been claiming anyways. They're aren't going to make the big needed deals until they see what they have in Sano and Buxton.*But this team could've made better moves to improve the MI. Not a big fan of this move.

 

 

*Then they won't be able to make big deals b/c they have to save the money for Sano and Buxton.

 

Sano and Buxton were really good in 2016. The FO went out and spent a lot of money, but none of it on big time FAs, no big trades were made, and most of the contracts were 1-2 year deal. So, if they see Buxton and Sano be great this year, what can we expect? Also, another year will be lost.

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I remain hopeful on Buxton and Sano.....but I'd not bet the franchise on them.


#43 Doomtints

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Posted 06 December 2018 - 05:50 PM

I think we knew all along it would be Schoop.

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#44 gunnarthor

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Posted 06 December 2018 - 05:55 PM

 

Sano and Buxton were really good in 2016. The FO went out and spent a lot of money, but none of it on big time FAs, no big trades were made, and most of the contracts were 1-2 year deal. So, if they see Buxton and Sano be great this year, what can we expect? Also, another year will be lost.

If there was ever a year to go all-in, it's now. Tons of cap room. A bunch of young core players on the ML roster to build around. But, no. This FO will have the same handcuffs the previous FO's had. Bottom third in payroll again.

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#45 h2oface

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Posted 06 December 2018 - 05:59 PM

And Dozier is one year removed from a 4.5 WAR.... 0.7 higher than the 3.8 of Schoop. And I didn't see excitement for the idea of Dozier returning.

 

I don't see this FO doing anything special until they see if Sano and Buxton and Kepler .... and Rosario and Berrios and Gibson ..... all show improvement. This all seems a lot like a deja vu of last off seasons quality of moves. If they are shooting for a .500 team or worse, this is just fine. If they want to compete.... these are uninteresting moves.

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#46 TheLeviathan

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Posted 06 December 2018 - 05:59 PM

 

If there was ever a year to go all-in, it's now. Tons of cap room. A bunch of young core players on the ML roster to build around. But, no. This FO will have the same handcuffs the previous FO's had. Bottom third in payroll again.

 

Plus Cleveland selling off.  

 

I don't mind this signing if the Twins think they can rekindle 2017.But if that's the case....sign him for longer than a year.

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#47 h2oface

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Posted 06 December 2018 - 06:01 PM

I thought I read that the FO felt that the one year veterans were not good for the team and team chemistry. One foot out the door as the season starts.....

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#48 Jim Hahn

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Posted 06 December 2018 - 06:07 PM

I have no real problem with this deal. Schoop is the youngest of the various free agent 2nd baseman and probably the most likely to put up the best year, if not the most likely to put up a good year.

I also like that it is a one year deal. It signals that the FO has some confidence in Gordon and may very well mean that they think Lewis can stick at short, and isn't too far away either.

If the Twins are going to be good soon, it is mostly going to come from the young guys in the system. Schoop won't get in the way of that and he could be a big help in the short term.
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#49 Brock Beauchamp

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Posted 06 December 2018 - 06:08 PM

 

This. All the moves look good in a vacuum, but we don't live in a vacuum. In context of the other moves, you end up with 5-10 holes every year, because you refuse to acquire long term help.

To be fair, it's still really early this offseason.

 

I simply can't get worked up about another deal of this kind. If it leads to a larger signing in a month, yay.

 

It's *way* too early to judge the offseason but I can't work myself into a state of excitement over this kind of thing, either.

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#50 S.

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Posted 06 December 2018 - 06:11 PM

Well, I guess on the bright side, it looks like we're going to have a lot of money to (not) spend on good pitching.


#51 bighat

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Posted 06 December 2018 - 06:13 PM

I'm surprised to hear so many complaining. I know there were some other 2nd basemen on the market but this guy had to be among the top 5 available. The Twins haven't had much luck bargain shopping for down-on-their-luck stars (LoMo, Lynn, Rodney come to mind), but they might have found something in Schoop.

 

Remember Schoop was injured at the beginning of last year and it really nagged him for a while. When he came back he performed well enough for the NLCS-bound Brewers to trade for him at the deadline.

 

This might be one of those TJMaxx specials that the Twins can brag about next year.

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#52 twins_89

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Posted 06 December 2018 - 06:17 PM

It seems like the position players are pretty much covered, so if the Twins keep a similar payroll to last season there should still be over $40M to spend. I'll be very interested to see if we can make a major upgrade to the pitching staff.


#53 Mike Sixel

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Posted 06 December 2018 - 06:20 PM

 

To be fair, it's still really early this offseason.

 

I simply can't get worked up about another deal of this kind. If it leads to a larger signing in a month, yay.

 

It's *way* too early to judge the offseason but I can't work myself into a state of excitement over this kind of thing, either.

 

Agreed....but what did they do last year, after Buxton and Sano were good? 1-2 year deals, meh trade. We'll see, but what do you think will happen? And, I'm only reacting to this deal, another 1 year deal that does nothing for the future at all. Nothing.

I remain hopeful on Buxton and Sano.....but I'd not bet the franchise on them.


#54 Thrylos

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Posted 06 December 2018 - 06:35 PM

I think that if the Twins had traded for Schoop after the 2017 season, nobody would have hated that deal.

He is 27.His BABIP was 35 points off his career average and 69 points off his 2017 number last season.BB and K% numbers were consistent with the rest of his career, so were the contact % numbers.If he rebounds close to his 2017 numbers, he will be a bargain.

 

Personally I'd rather have Murphy or Kintzler, but I like this signing.

 

Some pitching now please.

 

BTW Torreyes was signed to MiLB contract and likely will compete with Adrianza for a utility spot in ST.

 

Another thing:Roster is full now so no Rule 5 silliness :)

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#55 PseudoSABR

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Posted 06 December 2018 - 06:39 PM

 

Agreed....but what did they do last year, after Buxton and Sano were good? 1-2 year deals, meh trade. We'll see, but what do you think will happen? And, I'm only reacting to this deal, another 1 year deal that does nothing for the future at all. Nothing.

He's still an asset for the year (which could be traded for future value), and you have exclusive right to bargain for an extension.

 

The demand that the Twins spend hugely seems a bit misguided.Beyond Machado and Harper, I don't think the Twins can buy a real difference maker.Does Marwin Gonzales add that much more than Schoop?Do you want the Twins to give 100 some million to Keuchel?  

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#56 Nick Nelson

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Posted 06 December 2018 - 06:55 PM

I like that they're buying low on a big talent. But this does nothing to help with their OBP issues – in fact it exacerbates them – so I have a hard time getting excited. Right now this looks like a lineup that'll produce a lot of solo homers and strikeouts.  

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#57 Mike Sixel

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Posted 06 December 2018 - 06:57 PM

 

He's still an asset for the year (which could be traded for future value), and you have exclusive right to bargain for an extension.

 

The demand that the Twins spend hugely seems a bit misguided.Beyond Machado and Harper, I don't think the Twins can buy a real difference maker.Does Marwin Gonzales add that much more than Schoop?Do you want the Twins to give 100 some million to Keuchel?  

 

Spending wisely to win 75-80 games does nothing for me as a fan. Nothing. Nothing they've done adds to the long term viability of them winning either. If they are't going to try, trade Gibson for real minor league assets. 

 

Not adding any long term assets means you have the same issues next year.

 

Right now, this FO looks like the last FO. 

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I remain hopeful on Buxton and Sano.....but I'd not bet the franchise on them.


#58 Danchat

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Posted 06 December 2018 - 07:10 PM

Eh, it's a fine deal. Schoop was only going to take a one year deal, and I like the upside that he could bring. He's still young and could improve as a hitter. Defensively, UZR has him ranked 37th out of 82 2B who played at least 100 innings. DRS has him ranked 17th out of 82. So he's definitely a better defender than Dozier was last season, so he'll be a step up there.

 

At this point I can see Falvey and Levin crossing their fingers that either A) Schoop will rebound and return to being a top 10 2B or B: Nick Gordon figures things out and pushes Schoop at 2B. I would have preferred Marwin Gonzalez, but this isn't a bad alternative.

Edited by Danchat, 06 December 2018 - 07:10 PM.

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#59 ewen21

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Posted 06 December 2018 - 07:18 PM

Not a bad pickup, and in fact, these are the kinds of deals Terry Ryan never made when we were winning divisions.This is the precisely the kind of player we could have gotten to sit Nick Punto's butt down

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#60 Brock Beauchamp

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Posted 06 December 2018 - 07:22 PM

 

Agreed....but what did they do last year, after Buxton and Sano were good? 1-2 year deals, meh trade. We'll see, but what do you think will happen? And, I'm only reacting to this deal, another 1 year deal that does nothing for the future at all. Nothing.

Well, the situation was completely different last year. They had FAR less money (Mauer, Dozier, Santana on the books) and free agents were falling into their lap at bargain prices.

 

And they still posted the highest payroll in team history. Now, that payroll was still too freakin' low but they don't get to dictate fiscal policy with the team. 

 

I don't really care about contract length, I want quality players. Frankly, I don't understand your fascination with "doing something for the future", Mike. You realize most long-term contracts are absolute albatrosses near the end and some (like the Darvish contract we were clamoring for just last offseason) are albatrosses the moment ink is put to paper. I'm not lobbying for the Twins to sign a six year deal, I'm lobbying for them to sign good players. That often requires 5-6 year deals but if you shop smartly, you can get some pretty damned good players for 2-3 years at a time.

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