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Article: What's There to Say About Ehire?

ehire adrianza
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#21 Riverbrian

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Posted 05 December 2018 - 02:38 PM

Obviously, the front office likes him. They were not very active their first off season but one of the few moves they did make was bring him on board and it's two off-seasons now and he still has a contract. So... obviously the front office likes him. 

 

 

If the front office or any fan makes the claim "He's just fine as a "Back-up" "Bench Player" "Limited Role"" or anything of sort. They are really making the claim: That they don't anticipate any injury or sub-par performance from the starters. They are making the claim that there are no circumstances that would cause that player to go from Back-Up, Bench Player or Limited Role to a full time role. 

 

If Cron and Austin end up on the roster together along with Adrianza. Adrianza becomes out of necessity our back up for Sano because we have limited 25 man roster space. In that context... the million dollar contract doesn't look so good. 

 

They say that anyone who lives near the water will eventually end up in the water. 

 

If you live near the Adrianza... you'll eventually end up in the Adrianza. 

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#22 jkcarew

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Posted 05 December 2018 - 03:04 PM

 

Adrianza is another position that needs upgrading on the Twins roster.

He isnt awful, but "isnt awful" is by definition in need of upgrade, if you're trying to be better than middle of the ALC. How about finding a guy who is better than that as the futility infielder?

This. Seems to me that to compete these days with the way 25-man rosters are trending, you need to have 4 players among the 3B/SS/2B positions that can be consider "starters"...that you can play nearly every day depending upon match-ups and who needs rest...and/or that you can bring off the bench late with some reasonable expectation of offense. 

 

To me, if the Twins expected to win something meaningful in 2019, they'd acquire a legitimate 2B/SS...AND they would sign Escobar or the next closest available facsimile. (Gordon would be the emergency plan, unless traded...with Adrianza off the 40-man). I don't expect this to happen.

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#23 RatherBeGolfing

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Posted 05 December 2018 - 03:12 PM

I like Ehire as an emergency quadruple-A utility type but banking on anything more than that is asking to be disappointed.

 

I get his player archetype so I mean, yeah it would be nice if he were a better hitter but that's not what really holds him back. It's that his upside is that he's the utility IF at most and you'd expect him to have both a better glove and better pure speed/savvy as a baserunner than he actually has.


#24 TheLeviathan

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Posted 05 December 2018 - 04:07 PM

 

This. Seems to me that to compete these days with the way 25-man rosters are trending, you need to have 4 players among the 3B/SS/2B positions that can be consider "starters"...that you can play nearly every day depending upon match-ups and who needs rest...and/or that you can bring off the bench late with some reasonable expectation of offense. 

 

To me, if the Twins expected to win something meaningful in 2019, they'd acquire a legitimate 2B/SS...AND they would sign Escobar or the next closest available facsimile. (Gordon would be the emergency plan, unless traded...with Adrianza off the 40-man). I don't expect this to happen.

 

I mean, if you're playing MLB The Show...sure.But this paragraph, and several other posts, lack basis in reality.

 

Last year the Yankees gave 400 PAs to players significantly worse than Adrianza.They, and the Twins, were among about 28 of the 30 franchises in baseball with a similar situation.One of the other two (Houston) is about to join that club as well.Are the Yankees and all these other teams just too cheap??Are they all unaware of this mountain of available players you refer to who will willingly play for little money, less playing time, and hit like all-stars?

 

Frankly, to make the claim you just did requires ignorance of the talent landscape.You might as well suggest the team "Sign a catcher with an OPS over 1.000!Should be a piece of cake!"I'm all for signing a guy like Gonzalez, but that won't change the need for someone like Adrianza.And it won't change the fact that most teams are happy (because they have to be) with a good fielder who can OPS .700 and play multiplie positions on their bench.

Edited by TheLeviathan, 05 December 2018 - 04:08 PM.

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#25 jkcarew

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Posted 05 December 2018 - 05:26 PM

I mean, if you're playing MLB The Show...sure.But this paragraph, and several other posts, lack basis in reality.
 
Last year the Yankees gave 400 PAs to players significantly worse than Adrianza.They, and the Twins, were among about 28 of the 30 franchises in baseball with a similar situation.One of the other two (Houston) is about to join that club as well.Are the Yankees and all these other teams just too cheap??Are they all unaware of this mountain of available players you refer to who will willingly play for little money, less playing time, and hit like all-stars?
 
Frankly, to make the claim you just did requires ignorance of the talent landscape.You might as well suggest the team "Sign a catcher with an OPS over 1.000!Should be a piece of cake!"I'm all for signing a guy like Gonzalez, but that won't change the need for someone like Adrianza.And it won't change the fact that most teams are happy (because they have to be) with a good fielder who can OPS .700 and play multiplie positions on their bench.


Suggesting the Twins acquire two more guys that can play around the infield and OPS 750 displays an ignorance of the talent landscape? Adrianna OPS’d 700 once, in a very limited number of at-bats...last year he was at 680...and it got worse as he was exposed more.

Is he anywhere close to one of our biggest issues? No. Is he fine if the role is limited? Yes. Do I think it’s realistic that your extra middle infielder can be materially better than Adrianna which was the subject of this article? 100% yes.
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#26 Brandon

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Posted 05 December 2018 - 05:48 PM

 

Suggesting the Twins acquire two more guys that can play around the infield and OPS 750 displays an ignorance of the talent landscape? Adrianna OPS’d 700 once, in a very limited number of at-bats...last year he was at 680...and it got worse as he was exposed more.

Is he anywhere close to one of our biggest issues? No. Is he fine if the role is limited? Yes. Do I think it’s realistic that your extra middle infielder can be materially better than Adrianna which was the subject of this article? 100% yes.

Actually with more playing time Adrianza was bouncing between .690-.725 he ended at .680 I imagine after he went on the 10 day DL for something and spent more time on the bench when he came back till Escobar was traded.  

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#27 TheLeviathan

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Posted 05 December 2018 - 06:12 PM

 

Suggesting the Twins acquire two more guys that can play around the infield and OPS 750 displays an ignorance of the talent landscape?

 

Yes.It does.Do you know how many qualified infielders that play SS or 2B or 3B had an OPS of .750 last year? (Not all three, just any of the three)

 

35.If you take out 3B there were only 22.(And I'd say Ehire's ability to play SS/2B is a key part of his value)

 

So, yes, suggesting the Twins sign two such players (at least one of which is for a backup role) is completely out of touch with reality.

Edited by TheLeviathan, 05 December 2018 - 06:26 PM.

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#28 Dr. Evil

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Posted 05 December 2018 - 06:27 PM

Too much harshness shown to jkcarew. I understand his/her reasoning and it has validity.
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#29 Dr. Evil

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Posted 05 December 2018 - 06:32 PM

"Out of touch with reality" is rude, insulting and unnecessary.

#30 Doomtints

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Posted 05 December 2018 - 06:56 PM

Adrianza is a backstop player who can fill in, primarily defensively, in a pinch. He won't embarrass himself offensively (unlike the Twins purported future stars can do, btw). He's the guy you keep behind the emergency glass.

 

Is he replaceable? Yes, but the Twins know him. There's not much point in bringing in someone new to fulfill the same role.

 

I'm amazed he OP managed to write so many words about him. That's true writing skill that I don't possess. Very impressive. Imagine what Tom can write about a really good player!

Edited by Doomtints, 05 December 2018 - 07:01 PM.

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#31 jkcarew

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Posted 05 December 2018 - 07:01 PM

Yes.It does.Do you know how many qualified infielders that play SS or 2B or 3B had an OPS of .750 last year? (Not all three, just any of the three)
 
35.If you take out 3B there were only 22.(And I'd say Ehire's ability to play SS/2B is a key part of his value)
 
So, yes, suggesting the Twins sign two such players (at least one of which is for a backup role) is completely out of touch with reality.


What? As recently as 2016, the Twins extra infielder OPS’d 758. An if Polanco had been designated the extra that year...he OPS’d 730. They won 83 games. I want a guy with a better offensive upside in that role. They exist. So I guess ignorance would be bliss in my case.
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#32 TheLeviathan

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Posted 05 December 2018 - 07:13 PM

 

What? As recently as 2016, the Twins extra infielder OPS’d 758. An if Polanco had been designated the extra that year...he OPS’d 730. They won 83 games. I want a guy with a better offensive upside in that role. They exist. So I guess ignorance would be bliss in my case.

 

One isolated data point from two years ago isn't particularly compelling.Among SS last year with at least 300 PA, Adrianza was in the top 30.If it helps, read that again.Meaning there were teams with starters who hit worse than him, much less his defensive contributions.  

 

You don't seem to be aware that there simply are not enough .750 OPS middle infielders to expect that you'll have one on your bench.It'd be great to have some dream number of infielders on your roster, but the realities of their scarcity make that totally unattainable.(At least via signing/trading players.You can have someone in your farm that steps up for that role, but expecting to acquire a utility player like that defies reality)

Edited by TheLeviathan, 05 December 2018 - 07:14 PM.

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#33 Thrylos

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Posted 05 December 2018 - 07:28 PM

Ehire hit .300/.355/.464 with men on last season.Much better than another now former Twins middle infielder who better stay unmentioned...

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#34 USAFChief

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Posted 05 December 2018 - 07:47 PM

One isolated data point from two years ago isn't particularly compelling.Among SS last year with at least 300 PA, Adrianza was in the top 30.If it helps, read that again.Meaning there were teams with starters who hit worse than him, much less his defensive contributions.  
 
You don't seem to be aware that there simply are not enough .750 OPS middle infielders to expect that you'll have one on your bench.It'd be great to have some dream number of infielders on your roster, but the realities of their scarcity make that totally unattainable.(At least via signing/trading players.You can have someone in your farm that steps up for that role, but expecting to acquire a utility player like that defies reality)


This is the reward for your much balleyhooed mid summer sell off.

We had such a guy, but I guess we needed more minor league depth instead. You and I can watch him in Phoenix.
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#35 Dr. Evil

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Posted 05 December 2018 - 08:15 PM

This is the reward for your much balleyhooed mid summer sell off.
We had such a guy, but I guess we needed more minor league depth instead. You and I can watch him in Phoenix.

So you're sayin it doesn' actually defy reality. Interesting.

#36 Mike Sixel

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Posted 05 December 2018 - 08:18 PM

 

This is the reward for your much balleyhooed mid summer sell off.

We had such a guy, but I guess we needed more minor league depth instead. You and I can watch him in Phoenix.

 

This team wasn't winning doodoo last year, trading off guys made sense. I don't know how anyone can disagree with that. 

 

That said, I don't have any confidence any of the guys they got will ever help. So far, I've not been impressed with any moves by this FO, other than Castro and the first round draft picks (which, they could have chosen any one of five players first overall and I'd be impressed, so that accomplishment isn't all that).

Edited by Mike Sixel, 05 December 2018 - 08:19 PM.

I remain hopeful on Buxton and Sano.....but I'd not bet the franchise on them.


#37 Dr. Evil

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Posted 05 December 2018 - 08:26 PM

The utility infielder should be the next best infielder you can get on your roster through paying him. Not just a marginal major leaguer that you settle for because he's not good enough to be a starter. That's building a deep versatile roster with flexability to line up against RH/LH offensive splits. It's a valid idea that jkcarew has.
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#38 Dr. Evil

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Posted 05 December 2018 - 08:30 PM

This team wasn't winning doodoo last year, trading off guys made sense. I don't know how anyone can disagree with that. 
 
That said, I don't have any confidence any of the guys they got will ever help. So far, I've not been impressed with any moves by this FO, other than Castro and the first round draft picks (which, they could have chosen any one of five players first overall and I'd be impressed, so that accomplishment isn't all that).

Makes sense provided we got something of value back. If not, it's just a give away.

#39 jkcarew

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Posted 05 December 2018 - 08:30 PM

One isolated data point from two years ago isn't particularly compelling.Among SS last year with at least 300 PA, Adrianza was in the top 30.If it helps, read that again.Meaning there were teams with starters who hit worse than him, much less his defensive contributions.  
 
You don't seem to be aware that there simply are not enough .750 OPS middle infielders to expect that you'll have one on your bench.It'd be great to have some dream number of infielders on your roster, but the realities of their scarcity make that totally unattainable.(At least via signing/trading players.You can have someone in your farm that steps up for that role, but expecting to acquire a utility player like that defies reality)


Yes, But there are a decent number of professional middle infielders...including players that have not yet had the opportunity to post a qualifying 750...that have materially better offensive upside than Adrianna...that have the potential to provide a pretty good bat in the role. Go get one of them...or at least explore the cost. Not easy, but I didn’t insinuate that it should be. And I agree that if we define “can OPS 750” to mean “has had qualifying seasons OPS’ing 750”...then you’re not realistically going to acquire that for the utility role.
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#40 Shaitan

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Posted 05 December 2018 - 08:52 PM

 

The utility infielder should be the next best infielder you can get on your roster through paying him. Not just a marginal major leaguer that you settle for because he's not good enough to be a starter. That's building a deep versatile roster with flexability to line up against RH/LH offensive splits. It's a valid idea that jkcarew has.

 

Except these are people and it's not that simple. It also has to be a player willing to be a backup and one who can perform off the bench, on a moment's notice, often while cold.

 

Most player's who are "good enough to be a starter" want to be starters, not sign in Minnesota to sit on the bench and pray for a teammate's injury, illness, or suspension. Most player's who excelled their whole young lives until MLB have never sat on the bench at all.

 

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