Jump to content

Providing independent coverage of the Minnesota Twins.

Article: Thought Exercise: What Would You Give For Cano & Diaz?

robinson cano edwin diaz
  • Please log in to reply
66 replies to this topic

#1 John Bonnes

John Bonnes


  • Administrators
  • 5,981 posts

Posted 29 November 2018 - 09:26 PM

Today the big news will be a trade between the Mets and Mariners that brings secon baseman Robinson Cano and closer Edwin Diaz to the Mets. While it's fun to speculate, this deal likely could not have involved the Twins. Key to the deal is that Cano has a no-trade clause that he must waive, and doing so probably requires a return to New York City. But last I checked, we're four months from real baseball, so let's speculate anyway....How much fun would it have been to add Cano and Diaz to the Twin roster for next year? Cano gprovides a middle-of-the-order hitter at second base, and still leaves lots of room to add more offense at first base and designated hitter. Diaz is a 24-year-old lights-out closer who is under team control for four more years. Some of the bigger offseason challenges are handled in one early move.

Of course, the reason the Mariners made this deal is because Cano will make $24 million for the next six years. He also lost half of last season to a performance-enhancing drugs suspension. Plus, he's 35 years old. The reason he's available, and indeed the reason he almost has to be traded with Diaz, is because his contract is such a liability. We may find out the deal includes some money to help cover those salaries in 2021-2023, but right now we don't have any details.

But it's also worth noting that the Mets aren't giving up a tremendous amount here. They're giving up "two top prospects" but the three names prominently mentioned include 19-year-old outifleder Jarred Kelenic (a 6th overall draft pick last year), and pitchers Justin Dunn and/or David Peterson. MLB.com's Pipeline lists Kelenic and Dunn as Top 100 guys, but late-Top 100 guys. By comparion, Twins prospects like Royce Lewis and Alex Kiriloff are top 10. Instead, a comparable package might have been Brusdar Graterol and Trevor Larnach (or any of the Twins #4-#9 prospects).

Plus, the Mets are dumping a couple of questionable contracts themselves. Jay Bruce dealt with cascading injuries last year and will cost them $13M over the next two years. Swarzak had shoulder issues, lost his feel for the zone and is due $8M this year. Without including them, the package would've been even less.

Of course, Minneapolis is not New York City, so to really make the deal a reality, they would've also needed to find something to entice Cano to waive his no-trade clause. Throwing additional money at a bad contract that is going to run until a guy is 41 doesn't seem wise. It certainly doesn't seem like The Twins Way®. But if the only thing standing between getting the deal done and it not getting done is a little more cash, maybe a $5M bonus next year sweetens the pot? This is the year that they have the money, right?

It's a moot point, obviously. Mostly this deal intrigued me because I've been advocating a frugal approach on a middle infielder, but immediately pivoted into full-blow "WANT" mode when I saw the players available. But I'd be interested in what the community thinks. What kind of creative would have made sense for the Twins?

Click here to view the article
  • glunn likes this

#2 tvagle


    Pensacola Blue Wahoos

  • Members
  • 945 posts

Posted 29 November 2018 - 10:19 PM

Offered up this hypothetical couple weeks ago in the Money Laundering Blueprint


Twins Trade:

Jake Odorizzi $9.4M

Brusdar Graterol

Tyler Austin

Mitch Garver


Mariners Trade:

Felix Hernandez $27.9M

Edwin Diaz $.6M 4 years Team Control

Kyle Seager $19.5M - $19.5M - $18.5M

Alex Colome $7.3M

$15M over 3 years <$15M> - <$10M> - <$5M>


For Cano/Diaz


Cano's canoe-anchor of a contract I'm not sure I'd want to launder that much dirty money...so here's what I'd consider


Odorizzi 9.4M

Reed 8.5M




Cano 120M


Mariners kick in 50M


I'd push to get Colome in a deal as well either lowering the cash back and/or including Gonsalves/Stewart/Alcala whoever isn't named Lewis/Kirillof/Larnach/Rooker/Thorpe that floats their Canoes

  • glunn and Sconnie like this

Is it 2020 yet?

#3 Winston Smith

Winston Smith

    2 + 2 = 5

  • Members
  • 2,941 posts
  • LocationOceania

Posted 29 November 2018 - 10:21 PM

Zero! That Cano deal is a killer.


I'd give them Kepler and a prospect for Segura.

  • glunn, Thrylos, darin617 and 5 others like this

If you don't know where you are going, you might wind up someplace else.


Yogi Berra

#4 Seth Stohs

Seth Stohs


  • Administrators
  • 17,130 posts

Posted 29 November 2018 - 10:28 PM

I don't think I'd have any interest in Cano at this point in his career. 


I do like Diaz, but obviously he's not available without Cano. 

  • glunn, diehardtwinsfan, brvama and 7 others like this

#5 Rosterman


    Senior Member

  • Members
  • 3,186 posts

Posted 29 November 2018 - 10:29 PM

Man, a tough one.


Yes, the Twins could afford Cano. But he is expensive and aging. Yet he would also solve the problem at 2B for a couple of seasons. Not sure where he would play the rest of his contract. But assuming that he IS the second baseman for the once and future present:


Nick Gordon

Stephen Goncalves


With an outfield set of Rosario/Kepler/Buxton with Cave on staff and Raley/Rooker./Krilloff in the wings, you could


add Tyler Larnach OR one of Rooker/Raley


If you had seen fit to add Jake Reed or Tyler Jay to the 40-man, both could be considered immediate trade pieces. Would offer one of them.


If you have to sweeten the pot still further with "prospects" I would throw out names like Andrew Cabezas, Blayne Enlow or Bryan Sammons, for example. Any one perhaps?


I would also make the Mariners take Addison Reed, since you are getting, essentially, your future closer and need them to eat some of your salary.


None of the losses about would hurt the Twins. But not really sure how much they would gain with Cano. Diaz would be a plus. Could the Twins get Seager, too. Maybe dangle Wander Javier in the mix.


Five players for two. Six players for three and you eat ALL the money. Twins can afford it.


But the Twins aren't going anywhere unless Buxton and Sano come thru.

  • glunn, Dantes929 and Minny505 like this

Joel Thingvall
rosterman at www.twinscards.com

#6 TheLeviathan


    Twins News Team

  • Members
  • 16,742 posts

Posted 29 November 2018 - 10:49 PM

Avoid this like the plague.

  • Twins33, PseudoSABR, mikelink45 and 2 others like this

#7 brvama


    Junior Member

  • Members
  • 524 posts

Posted 29 November 2018 - 10:53 PM

These are the exercises I like best, none. In other words, simply no!
  • Doctor Wu likes this

#8 SgtSchmidt11


    Senior Member

  • Members
  • 478 posts

Posted 30 November 2018 - 07:22 AM

If the M's covered 1/2 of Cano's contract, I'd give them a bag of balls.

  • Blake likes this

#9 wavedog


    Twins fan since 1969

  • Members
  • 910 posts

Posted 30 November 2018 - 08:08 AM

If you look at Cano/Diaz playing ability-wise I likewise thought this would be a good fit with the Twins needs. But that Cano contract is horrible.Fortunately Cano would not come here and only his former agent who negotiated that contract wants it back - lol!The other thought that crossed my mind is that Polanco/Cano would make a good PED suspension platoon at 2B.Polanco could be suspended the first half of the season and Cano the 2nd half.  

  • PDX Twin likes this

#10 Tomj14


    Pensacola Blue Wahoos

  • Members
  • 662 posts

Posted 30 November 2018 - 08:37 AM

The Twins absolutely should stay away from players with talent and big salaries and pin their hope on prospects, that way the fans always have hope for future.


  • USAFChief, mikelink45, Vanimal46 and 3 others like this

#11 USAFChief


    Bad puns. That's how eye roll.

  • Twins Mods
  • 22,779 posts
  • LocationTucson

Posted 30 November 2018 - 08:44 AM


The Twins absolutely should stay away from players with talent and big salaries and pin their hope on prospects, that way the fans always have hope for future.

You can never fail when your goal is always three years from today.

  • Blake, Mike Sixel, dgwills and 6 others like this

Cutting my carbs...with a pizza slicer.

#12 Number3


    Ft Myers Miracle

  • Members
  • 268 posts

Posted 30 November 2018 - 08:53 AM

Per Rosterman


"But the Twins aren't going anywhere unless Buxton and Sano come thru."


The entire 2019 season is at the mercy of these 2 and there is no point in trying to acquire a Cano type until this is resolved. As they say in FL, fish or cut bait. When these 2 show up in Ft Myers they had best be ready to do just that.

Edited by Number3, 30 November 2018 - 08:54 AM.

  • dgwills likes this

#13 Tom Froemming

Tom Froemming

    Content Editor

  • Administrators
  • 1,949 posts

Posted 30 November 2018 - 08:57 AM

Those two would make the Twins sooooo much better, but there are money concerns and not just with Cano.


Do you think the Mauer contract prevented the Twins from competing? I'd say no. Cano is also better than post-concussion Mauer, so I don't feel like his deal would hold the Twins back.


The issue with Diaz is if you keep letting him rack up saves he's going to get ridiculously expensive through arbitration. Why anybody would give save chances to pre-arb or arb-eligible players is beyond me. You're burning money. Let them pitch the eighth.


Now to the actual question, what would I give up? Well, not a lot, something like ...


Brent Rooker + Nick Gordon + Jake Cave + Zack Littell


The big benefit to Seattle in this offer would be on the financial side. They're taking back quite a bit of money in that Mets proposal. I'd imagine the Mariners would appreciate both not having to take on bad money and getting guys who could contribute in 2019. If Seattle is truly desperate to get out of Cano's contract and terrified of what they'll need to pay Diaz, this could work. 


This same line of thinking could work in other trade talks. The Twins have the ability to provide salary relief to a team looking to get out of a bad/big deal (how weird is that to say?). I don't think you need to give up a ton of talent in a scenario in which you're taking on a hefty contract. Cano's deal is particularity scary, there are some others that aren't nearly as bad. 


Looking at you Toronto.


I don't think the Blue Jays want to pay Marcus Stroman and Ken Giles what they're going to get via arbitration the next two years (proj. $13.8M combined for 2019), I'm sure they'd love to get out of Troy Tulowitzki's contract (2 years, $38M guaranteed) and Russell Martin (1 year, $20M) is already on the rumor mill.

  • Minny505 likes this

#14 nicksaviking


    Billy G.O.A.T

  • Twins Mods
  • 13,714 posts

Posted 30 November 2018 - 09:12 AM

My problem is that it seems the receiving team is taking on bad money and selling assets almost entirely to get Diaz. He's a stud, I'd love to have him, but instead of paying Cano that money you could probably sign Zach Britton and Jeurys Familia with enough left over for a Bud Norris.


In other years, this might seem like a reasonable deal to fix your bullpen, but this year is unlike any I've seen in terms for free agent relievers.

  • glunn, SwainZag, PseudoSABR and 3 others like this

#15 Shaitan


    Pensacola Blue Wahoos

  • Members
  • 952 posts

Posted 30 November 2018 - 09:38 AM

When is the last time the Mets made a good trade?


As others have said, I just don't want Cano. Maybe for 1-2 years, but no way on 5. 

#16 Winston Smith

Winston Smith

    2 + 2 = 5

  • Members
  • 2,941 posts
  • LocationOceania

Posted 30 November 2018 - 09:46 AM


When is the last time the Mets made a good trade?


As others have said, I just don't want Cano. Maybe for 1-2 years, but no way on 5. 

I think they traded for a pitcher named Santana.

  • glunn, Mike Sixel, nicksaviking and 1 other like this

If you don't know where you are going, you might wind up someplace else.


Yogi Berra

Ad Code Goes Here GOOD

#17 Mike Sixel

Mike Sixel

    Now living in Oregon

  • Members
  • 29,124 posts

Posted 30 November 2018 - 09:47 AM

I'd rather just sign some FA RPs. So, probably nothing.


but, if the FO thinks Cano can play 2B for a few more years and be a top DH after that (or 1B), then I wouldn't kill them for dealing for him.


Gordon, Gonsalves, Austin, Kepler should do it, I'd think.

Edited by Mike Sixel, 30 November 2018 - 10:04 AM.

  • glunn, nicksaviking and Minny505 like this

It's IL now, btw, not DL.....

#18 Tomj14


    Pensacola Blue Wahoos

  • Members
  • 662 posts

Posted 30 November 2018 - 09:57 AM

Cano has been a MVP candidate 7 of the last 9 years and was on his way last year and a WAR of 53.8, so of course the Twins don't need him.


  • USAFChief, Mike Sixel and Minny505 like this

#19 Thrylos


    Twins World Champions in 2019

  • Members
  • 9,978 posts
  • LocationLehigh Valley, PA, USA
  • Twitter: thrylos98

Posted 30 November 2018 - 10:05 AM

This is what this deal looks like:


Diaz 4 years of club control prearb, Cano 5 years $120M, Bruce 2 years $28M, Swarzak 1 year $8.5 M, plus prospects and whatever $ the Mariners might send over.


The Twins do not have any bad contracts this time (OK, Addison Reed, so he will have to be in that deal)


Cano is signed from his age 36 to his age 40 season.That's 5 geriatric years, and the assumption the Twins need to make is that his last 3 or 4 will be a DH.The most they should pay him is $10+8+5+5+2 = $30 million and let the Mariners responsible for 90-Reed's 8.5 = $ 81.5.The Twins can afford to let a leftie tossing OF go, and if it were up to me, I'd throw in Kepler. (Reed + Kepler is at least equivalent to Swarzak + Bruce, but likely better.) 


As far as prospects go, who am I to stay in the middle of a family reunion, so Nick goes to play with Dee, like the good old days, and Stephen Gonsalves could follow.(That's two top 100 prospects btw.)


So we have:


Addisson Reed + Max Kepler + Nick Gordon + Stephen Gonsalves


Robinson Cano + Edwin Diaz + $80M


That said, there is no way in hay I would want Cano in my team...

  • glunn and Tom Froemming like this
Blogging Twins since 2007 at The Tenth Inning Stretch
twitter: @thrylos98

#20 Mike Sixel

Mike Sixel

    Now living in Oregon

  • Members
  • 29,124 posts

Posted 30 November 2018 - 10:05 AM

I love how Carole and nick liked my post as I completely changed it......

It's IL now, btw, not DL.....

Also tagged with one or more of these keywords: robinson cano, edwin diaz