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Article: Rundown: The Next Eovaldi, Cleveland Trade Rumors and More

nathan eovaldi michael pineda drew pomeranz trevor bauer patrick corbin
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#21 Mike Sixel

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Posted 29 November 2018 - 03:45 PM

 

I wouldn't give up Royce for him.

 

you'd rather have 6 years of an unknown commodity, than 3 of one of the best pitchers on the planet?

 

And, others won't sign SP to long term deals, where, exactly, do people expect to find great pitchers? 

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I remain hopeful on Buxton and Sano.....but I'd not bet the franchise on them.


#22 Vanimal46

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Posted 29 November 2018 - 03:58 PM

I wouldn't give up Royce for him.


I would for sure. Before it's determined whether or not he can stick at SS.

#23 Tom Froemming

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Posted 29 November 2018 - 04:19 PM

 

you'd rather have 6 years of an unknown commodity, than 3 of one of the best pitchers on the planet?

 

And, others won't sign SP to long term deals, where, exactly, do people expect to find great pitchers? 

Six years of Royce Lewis? Yes. There's still some uncertainty around the next three years of Thor too. There are no guarantees.

 

I would for sure. Before it's determined whether or not he can stick at SS.

I believe Royce is a shortstop, but even if he moves to the outfield you're going to get an awesome defensive outfielder. Not all of his value is tied up in the ability to stick at shortstop. 

 

 

If the Twins were one ace pitcher away from winning a World Series, I'd feel differently about this question. But right now, I believe six years of Royce Lewis gives the Twins a better chance at winning a World Series at some point than three years of Noah Syndergaard.

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#24 nicksaviking

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Posted 29 November 2018 - 04:19 PM

Well if the Mets are interested Diaz and Cano from the Mariners, Lewis and Kirilloff probably aren't what they're looking for in exchange for Syndergaard anyway. 

 

 

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#25 DocBauer

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Posted 29 November 2018 - 04:19 PM

Assuming the Mets want to shed payroll and get ML talent, or close to ML talent back, I'm just tossing this out there:

Kepler, Gordon, Romero and 1 of Gonsalves, Thorpe or Graterol. (Graterol is RH and further away, but has an even higher ceiling).

Kepler starts in CF/RF and still has a ton of upside. Gordon could be ready mid year. Romero is ready now for some role. And they get their choice of another good young arm.

"Nice catch Hayes...don't ever f*****g do it again."

 

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#26 Mike Sixel

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Posted 29 November 2018 - 04:20 PM

 

Six years of Royce Lewis? Yes. There's still some uncertainty around the next three years of Thor too. There are no guarantees.

 

I believe Royce is a shortstop, but even if he moves to the outfield you're going to get an awesome defensive outfielder. Not all of his value is tied up in the ability to stick at shortstop. 

 

 

If the Twins were one ace pitcher away from winning a World Series, I'd feel differently about this question. But right now, I believe six years of Royce Lewis gives the Twins a better chance at winning a World Series at some point than three years of Noah Syndergaard.

how do you plan to get great pitching, if you won't trade top prospects, or sign guys to long term deals?

Edited by Mike Sixel, 29 November 2018 - 04:20 PM.

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I remain hopeful on Buxton and Sano.....but I'd not bet the franchise on them.


#27 nicksaviking

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Posted 29 November 2018 - 04:23 PM

 

how do you plan to get great pitching, if you won't trade top prospects, or sign guys to long term deals?

 

They could develop them themselves, like most of the rest of the league does.


#28 Mike Sixel

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Posted 29 November 2018 - 04:33 PM

 

They could develop them themselves, like most of the rest of the league does.

 

so, punt on having another great pitcher for how many more years? Which guy is coming that you have lots of confidence in? Because most of the ranking sites love their hitting a lot more than pitching.

 

houston traded for 2. The yankees are about to sign another FA after trading for one. boston? trades and FAs. the Angels signed the best international one available. Philly? FA and early picks. 

 

Twins have decided not to use high picks on a SP with this FO so far, do you think that will change? If so, why would you think that?

 

Most of the rest of the league doesn't have great starters, that's why they cost so much in money or trade. 

 

 

Edited by Mike Sixel, 29 November 2018 - 04:35 PM.

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I remain hopeful on Buxton and Sano.....but I'd not bet the franchise on them.


#29 markos

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Posted 29 November 2018 - 04:37 PM

 

how do you plan to get great pitching, if you won't trade top prospects, or sign guys to long term deals?

There is the obvious way of drafting/developing your own prospects, but personally, I'd like to see them target youngish big-league pitchers with ace-potential and trust the development staff to raise them to the ace level. That is basically what the Astros did with Cole, the Indians did with Bauer, the Tigers did with Scherzer, and the Yankees are trying to do that with Paxton. None of those deals required a top-10 prospect.

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#30 Mike Sixel

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Posted 29 November 2018 - 04:40 PM

 

There is the obvious way of drafting/developing your own prospects, but personally, I'd like to see them target youngish big-league pitchers with ace-potential and trust the development staff to raise them to the ace level. That is basically what the Astros did with Cole, the Indians did with Bauer, the Tigers did with Scherzer, and the Yankees are trying to do that with Paxton. None of those deals required a top-10 prospect.

 

Unfortunately they did not go get Paxton.

I remain hopeful on Buxton and Sano.....but I'd not bet the franchise on them.


#31 markos

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Posted 29 November 2018 - 04:55 PM

 

Unfortunately they did not go get Paxton.

I know. I was pretty disappointed by this myself. The way I see it, this team need to make some high-variance moves in order to move the needle enough for them to be legitimate contenders with the Indians/Astros/Red Sox/Yankees with this current core of players. And it turns out that the off-season has had some reasonably costed, high-variance moves! Donaldson to Atlanta on a 1-year deal. The Paxton trade. Both of those would have looked good for this team.

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#32 ChrisKnutson

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Posted 29 November 2018 - 05:25 PM

how do you plan to get great pitching, if you won't trade top prospects, or sign guys to long term deals?


Why trade for Thor now, that’s the type of move that teams make when they’re ready to make a (serious) WS run, not when the future’s uncertain. Besides, we already have tons of talented arms who could reach the big leagues (and perform) as early as next season (Romero/Graterol/Stewart/Gonsalves/Thorpe/Enlow/Alcala/Wells).

While I agree that we need add a starter (via trade or free agency), I’m not sure it’d be in best interest of the club’s future if it were someone as expensive as Syndergaard/Keuchel/Corbin. And while I’d love it if the Twins signed Eovaldi, That’s highly unlikely due to Houston and Boston’s presence, so at the moment we’re probably better off bargain shopping for arms like Shields, Holland, Buchholz, and Sanchez (again) or trading for someone like Marcus Stroman.

#33 strumdatjaguar

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Posted 29 November 2018 - 07:04 PM

Doesn't look like Kikuchi will ever win a Gold Glove with the way he finishes his pitches with a one legged hop!


#34 DocBauer

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Posted 29 November 2018 - 07:46 PM

Some great arguments back and forth regarding a trade for Thor. And I see merits on BITH sides of the argument. Nobody asked me for my opinion, but I'm going to throw mine out there anyway, lol.

I believe the team needs to make moves to "move the needle forward" absolutely. And if the Mets are really motivated to sell, I'd be interested in buying. The reason is simple, a quality arm at the top of the rotation for 3 more years. Obviously, it also depends on the cost. While still prospects, I don't include Lewis or Khirilloff but anyone else in the system and MOST of the 40 man is open. (Trading Berrios or Gibson to net Thor doesn't really make sense). This includes, as I mentioned earlier today, maybe a package that looks something like Kepler, Romero, Gordon and 1 or Gonsalves, Thorpe or Graterol. Perhaps a 5th top 20 prospect.

The counter, of course, is for the Twins and their new staff to work with the talent on hand, openers or not, and further look at and develop existing potential for at least half a season before making a big move. And if we're truly looking at building from the ground floor up and sustainable success, this makes a ton of sense to me. Especially with the new staff in place. At least for now.

While we have a lot of truly frustrating unknowns, Buxton and Sano amongst them, this team is not good of talent and potential. And you can talk all you want about a late surge in 2017 to reach the playoffs, but they DID do so while winning 85 games. (Reminder, the Indians didn't look so great until a surge either).

There is no reason to extrapolate the FA moves of last season blowing up even though they looked smart. Not again. But if we all knew before the 2018 season started that Santana would be a complete non factor, that Castro would be the same, and Buxton, and Sano almost as bad, that Polanco would miss half a season, that Dozier would be average to awful for the entire season, how many of us might have predicted a 100 loss team vs 84 to the bad?

This team needs a couple smart additions still, and there is opportunity to do so. It also needs some guys to be healthy and take a step forward. But from the top down, all is nkt pure doom and gloom. Thor for 3 years with Berrios and Gibson looks pretty good to me. You add a couple nice BP arms and continue to work with what is on hand, you have the makings of a really nice staff. Decisions on Odorizzi and Pineda can be made later.

You have to make the call to see if you have a match. But while still "prospects", you have to consider the talent and potential of both Lewis and Khirilloff and what they could mean to the franchise in the next year or two.
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"Nice catch Hayes...don't ever f*****g do it again."

 

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#35 Vanimal46

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Posted 29 November 2018 - 09:04 PM

Why trade for Thor now, that’s the type of move that teams make when they’re ready to make a (serious) WS run, not when the future’s uncertain. Besides, we already have tons of talented arms who could reach the big leagues (and perform) as early as next season (Romero/Graterol/Stewart/Gonsalves/Thorpe/Enlow/Alcala/Wells).

While I agree that we need add a starter (via trade or free agency), I’m not sure it’d be in best interest of the club’s future if it were someone as expensive as Syndergaard/Keuchel/Corbin. And while I’d love it if the Twins signed Eovaldi, That’s highly unlikely due to Houston and Boston’s presence, so at the moment we’re probably better off bargain shopping for arms like Shields, Holland, Buchholz, and Sanchez (again) or trading for someone like Marcus Stroman.


When you aim low, you remain a mediocre team. It's really as simple as that. What are those bargain bin arms going to do for this team? Help them win 82 games instead of 78?
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#36 ChrisKnutson

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Posted 29 November 2018 - 09:59 PM

When you aim low, you remain a mediocre team. It's really as simple as that. What are those bargain bin arms going to do for this team? Help them win 82 games instead of 78?

I’m not saying that there’s never a time to go “all in,” but there’s no question that right now’s not the time, especially if it means giving up future quality players like any of Lewis, Kirilloff, Graterol, or Romero. Now if the FO can acquire Syndergaard without giving up any of those prospects, then by all means go right ahead, but I feel we may need to “grossly overpay” in order to get the deal done; which is something most fans (myself included) may not feel comfortable with, especially when the guy we’d be trading for hasn’t exactly been as healthy or consistent as one would hope for when giving up high end talent.

Lastly, you need to remember that this is a mediocre team (and Syndergaard won’t change that), but it won’t be forever as I expect the Twin’s core to really take a step forward next season (so don’t subtract from it). And if that happens, surely the FO will feel much more confident in seriously pursuing FAs like Arenado/Ozuna/Andrus/Jansen/Vizcaino/Wheeler/Teheran next offseason.

Edited by ChrisKnutson, 29 November 2018 - 10:02 PM.


#37 Vanimal46

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Posted 29 November 2018 - 10:02 PM

I’m not saying that there’s never a time to go “all in,” but there’s no question that right now’s not the time, especially if it means giving up future quality players like any of Lewis, Kirilloff, Graterol, or Romero. Now if the FO can acquire Syndergaard without giving up any of those prospects, then by all means go right ahead, but I feel we may need to “grossly overpay” in order to get the deal done; which is something most fans (myself included) may not feel comfortable with, especially when the guy we’d be trading for hasn’t exactly been as healthy or consistent as one would hope for when giving up high end talent. Lastly, you need to remember that this is a mediocre team (and Syndergaard won’t change that), but it won’t be forever as I expect the Twin’s core to really take a step forward next season. And if that happens, surely the FO will feel much more confident in pursuing FAs like Arenado/Ozuna/Andrus/Jansen/Vizcaino/Wheeler/Teheran next offseason.


If you believe the core will take a step forward next season then you should want a top of the rotation guy like Thor already in place so he can help the team win more games. And who knows, make the playoffs because of that.
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#38 ChrisKnutson

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Posted 29 November 2018 - 10:25 PM

If you believe the core will take a step forward next season then you should want a top of the rotation guy like Thor already in place so he can help the team win more games. And who knows, make the playoffs because of that.


Taking a step forward is much different than maximizing a team’s potential; which is something I don’t expect to happen. Regardless, I understand and agree with the point your getting at; we need someone to sit next to Berrios at the top of the rotation, I just don’t think Syndergaard’s the guy. And while I’d prefer Eovaldi, I’m not entirely opposed to signing Keuchel (Corbin too, but cmon), but assuming they both sign somewhere else we’ll likely have to settle for Holland or Happ which is something I wouldn’t really complain about.

#39 Jacksson

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Posted 30 November 2018 - 03:05 AM

"Rob Huff of MLB Trade Rumors predicts the Twins will have a $125MM payroll for 2019.
That leaves them with $48MM remaining to spend this off season."

WRONG!!

The reality is that should Mr. Pohlad think from a perspective other than that
of a Ultra Conservative BANKER, he would find that the Luxury Cap is $206MM.
That means the $77MM already "Committed" can be increased by $129MM without
running afoul of the League.
The Pohlad Treasure Chest, which was accumulated off the backs of the citizens of the
Twin Cities whenever they: rode a bus, went to their bank or drank a Pepsi could easily
handle shelling out an additional $80MM

Just think about the team that could be fielded with an extra $130MM !
Wouldn't more people attend games?
Wouldn't more people purchase souvenirs?
Wouldn't more concessions be sold?
Wouldn't it build excitement in the Twin's market?
Wouldn't both players and agents give the Twins more serious consideration?

It WON'T HAPPEN!
NO GUTS!!

#40 Mr. Brooks

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Posted 30 November 2018 - 06:36 AM

how do you plan to get great pitching, if you won't trade top prospects, or sign guys to long term deals?


I don't believe he said that he wouldn't trade top prospects, just not that specific one. He didn't seem to suggest that he wouldn't trade Kiriloff.
I'd trade anyone in the system for the right player, except Lewis. I'm not trading him for anyone. You are right that this team needs front line pitching, but it also needs a superstar.
There are no guarantees, but Lewis seems poised to become one.
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