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Article: Pedro Florimon In Line To Be Opening Day Starter

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#1 Cody Christie

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Posted 17 September 2012 - 10:30 AM

You can view the page at http://www.twinsdail...ing-Day-starter

#2 h2oface

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Posted 17 September 2012 - 11:32 AM

just a couple of games ago against the sox, he boots one early (didn't get scored an error) and then late middle of game he misses and deflects into the outfield with a runner on second, and then starts jogging half-a$$ed after it until he realizes that the left fielder is not going to get to the ball before him, and finally starts trying again......... but all too late. that was just lazy. if you project out his errors to number of games and compare his average at the plate and the fielding stats to dozier..... you will find that they are not as good as brian. but onward with the florimon love if you like. he is a mediocre space filler in my book.

Edited by h2oface, 19 September 2012 - 07:06 PM.


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Posted 17 September 2012 - 11:37 AM

Florimon as the starter in 2013 will last through mid May at best. He's not even a decent AAAA player.

#4 Nick Nelson

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Posted 17 September 2012 - 11:42 AM

The shortstop carousel continues.

This organization's inability to identify even serviceable options at one the most important positions on the field is mind-blowing.

#5 wavedog

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Posted 17 September 2012 - 12:00 PM

Agreed - if he is our starting shortstop next year - shame on the front office. Florimon is too inconsistent on defense - he'll make the great play but there are too many errors. I will say on the positive side, he is not totally horrible on offense and he has some speed and real good arm. But if we have someone who can't field - they should proably be hitting better than .240. I don't get to see many Twins games but those I have watched it seems like we sure misplay more than our share of infield balls. Dozier and Plouffe's meltdowns in Texas and Floriman's error in the 9th this Saturday on plays at key times in the game.

#6 Boom Boom

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Posted 17 September 2012 - 12:01 PM

Gardy must be seeing something I'm not, because I can tell Florimon has the range and the arm to play shortstop but I'm still concerned about his hands and his concentration. His bat has been as advertised.

I think I'd rather have Jamey Carroll as the regular shortstop.

#7 Oxtung

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Posted 17 September 2012 - 12:11 PM

I think I'd rather have Jamey Carroll as the regular shortstop.


Remember that if Carroll gets 401 PA's next season he has a PLAYER option for 2014 when he will be 40 years old. Would you still rather have Carroll?

#8 Boom Boom

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Posted 17 September 2012 - 12:21 PM

I think I'd rather have Jamey Carroll as the regular shortstop.


Remember that if Carroll gets 401 PA's next season he has a PLAYER option for 2014 when he will be 40 years old. Would you still rather have Carroll?


Yes. If I'm the Twins I'm not thinking about $2 million for Carroll in 2014, I'm trying to put my best players out there.

I really don't want Carroll there either, but I'd rather give him 401 PAs next year than give Florimon 401 PAs, option or not.

BTW, I think Carroll's going to eclipse 401 PAs next season regardless.

Edited by Boom Boom, 17 September 2012 - 12:25 PM.


#9 Riverbrian

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Posted 17 September 2012 - 12:27 PM

[quote name='Boom Boom'][quote name='Oxtung'][quote name='Boom Boom']I think I'd rather have Jamey Carroll as the regular shortstop.[/QUOTE]

Remember that if Carroll gets 401 PA's next season he has a PLAYER option for 2014 when he will be 40 years old. Would you still rather have Carroll?[/QUOTE]

Yes. If I'm the Twins I'm not thinking about $2 million for Carroll in 2014, I'm trying to put my best players out there.

I really don't want Carroll there either, but I'd rather give him 401 PAs next year than give Florimon 401 PAs, option or not.[/QUOTE]

If Florimon gets 401 at bats next year... It will mean that he got better at some things and is doing a job. Therefore no problem... If he continues to struggle... He won't see 401 at bats in 2013.

If Carroll gets 401 at bats next year... It will mean that Florimon and Escobar and Dozier or a new MI didnt get the job done and we needed Carroll to hold down the fort.

Im hoping Carroll doesn't get 401 at bats for that reason.

#10 Boom Boom

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Posted 17 September 2012 - 12:31 PM

[quote name='Riverbrian'][quote name='Boom Boom'][quote name='Oxtung'][quote name='Boom Boom']I think I'd rather have Jamey Carroll as the regular shortstop.[/QUOTE]

Remember that if Carroll gets 401 PA's next season he has a PLAYER option for 2014 when he will be 40 years old. Would you still rather have Carroll?[/QUOTE]

Yes. If I'm the Twins I'm not thinking about $2 million for Carroll in 2014, I'm trying to put my best players out there.

I really don't want Carroll there either, but I'd rather give him 401 PAs next year than give Florimon 401 PAs, option or not.[/QUOTE]

If Florimon gets 401 at bats next year... It will mean that he got better at some things and is doing a job. Therefore no problem... If he continues to struggle... He won't see 401 at bats in 2013.

If Carroll gets 401 at bats next year... It will mean that Florimon and Escobar and Dozier or a new MI didnt get the job done and we needed Carroll to hold down the fort.

Im hoping Carroll doesn't get 401 at bats for that reason.[/QUOTE]

There you go. Are you confident that the Twins will have all of 2B, shortstop, and 3B locked down for an entire season next year? It hasn't happened recently. And look at the guys you named - I'd even add Plouffe to the list - how many do you think will be able to stick without needing to be replaced?

Like I said before, it looks to me like Carroll will get enough PAs anyway.

#11 Riverbrian

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Posted 17 September 2012 - 12:59 PM

[quote name='Boom Boom'][quote name='Riverbrian'][quote name='Boom Boom'][quote name='Oxtung'][quote name='Boom Boom']I think I'd rather have Jamey Carroll as the regular shortstop.[/QUOTE]

Remember that if Carroll gets 401 PA's next season he has a PLAYER option for 2014 when he will be 40 years old. Would you still rather have Carroll?[/QUOTE]

Yes. If I'm the Twins I'm not thinking about $2 million for Carroll in 2014, I'm trying to put my best players out there.

I really don't want Carroll there either, but I'd rather give him 401 PAs next year than give Florimon 401 PAs, option or not.[/QUOTE]

If Florimon gets 401 at bats next year... It will mean that he got better at some things and is doing a job. Therefore no problem... If he continues to struggle... He won't see 401 at bats in 2013.

If Carroll gets 401 at bats next year... It will mean that Florimon and Escobar and Dozier or a new MI didnt get the job done and we needed Carroll to hold down the fort.

Im hoping Carroll doesn't get 401 at bats for that reason.[/QUOTE]

There you go. Are you confident that the Twins will have all of 2B, shortstop, and 3B locked down for an entire season next year? It hasn't happened recently. And look at the guys you named - I'd even add Plouffe to the list - how many do you think will be able to stick without needing to be replaced?

Like I said before, it looks to me like Carroll will get enough PAs anyway.[/QUOTE]

I am not confident at all. I think Plouffe is the guy at third and I dont believe the Twins will be looking for a 3B. The hot streak he had this year was stunning. Once you display a streak like that... the Twins would be foolish to not keep him in place in case he does it again. Go ahead and write Plouffes name down and etch it in stone.

SS and 2B are huge question marks and so is the overall depth. The Twins have multiple holes to plug and itll be hard tp plug them all... I don't expect a big hitting SS or 2b to show up.

Im not going to worry about .240 or .210 at the plate. The difference will mean very little. I'm gonna try and be reasonable and say simply... Give me someone who can gobble up the routine stuff and make the near impossible play every once in awhile. Florimon looks like he could be that guy but he has to nail down the routine stuff or he won't be given the chance to make the big play. He will lose the job to Escobar or Dozier or Carroll.

Drew is not the answer. Please God no... Pitching is the priority so let's surround those pitchers with players who can get the ball up the middle. Florimon has done nothing to prove he is the long term answer so far... He's just shown flashes of ability that suggest he could be at the very least... A guy who will support the pitching and the pitching will need all the support it can get.

Its all about opportunity and Florimon is getting his right now. It's up to him to grab it. He may not. Let's see... Too soon to say right now.

#12 Oxtung

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Posted 17 September 2012 - 02:51 PM

[quote name='Boom Boom'][quote name='Oxtung'][quote name='Boom Boom']I think I'd rather have Jamey Carroll as the regular shortstop.[/QUOTE]

Remember that if Carroll gets 401 PA's next season he has a PLAYER option for 2014 when he will be 40 years old. Would you still rather have Carroll?[/QUOTE]

Yes. If I'm the Twins I'm not thinking about $2 million for Carroll in 2014, I'm trying to put my best players out there.

I really don't want Carroll there either, but I'd rather give him 401 PAs next year than give Florimon 401 PAs, option or not.

BTW, I think Carroll's going to eclipse 401 PAs next season regardless.[/QUOTE]

Fair enough. I guess I agree that Carroll is going to end up with the 401 PAs next season. There are too many holes to be fixed in 1 offseason and I think the Twins should target the rotation as priority #1. The player option on Carroll is just something that I think many people forget about and something that we should all keep in mind. It's essentially like signing Carroll to a 2 year deal this offseason if the Twins don't find more depth up the middle.

#13 clutterheart

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Posted 17 September 2012 - 03:54 PM

I was.about to go check the 2013 FA SS and give a nice response with outside the org options. Then I remembered which team i follow.

#14 Shane Wahl

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Posted 17 September 2012 - 03:54 PM

They didn't give Dozier a fair chance, actually. Players should have to demonstrate success at AAA before be thrown into a position for that long while continuing to struggle. The Twins were BIZARRE with him this year.

Florimon might be fine, but Gardenhire's comments about him are obviously ridiculous.

#15 boney

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Posted 17 September 2012 - 04:34 PM

They didn't give Dozier a fair chance, actually.


absolutely agree

#16 Jack Torse

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Posted 17 September 2012 - 04:59 PM

Dozier's not much better or worse in the grand scheme of things. Thier issues at shortstop is only the tip of the iceberg. Starting pitching is so bad that it's got fans "excited" about guys like Sam Deduno. It's part of a larger issue that the Twins have their stadium and are more interested in turning dimes than winning. Business as usual.

#17 Monkeypaws

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Posted 17 September 2012 - 05:11 PM

The shortstop carousel continues.

This organization's inability to identify even serviceable options at one the most important positions on the field is mind-blowing.


Agreed - Apart from Zoilo, Gagne, and Smalley, this is the norm for the Twins at SS.

#18 Lesser Dali

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Posted 17 September 2012 - 05:28 PM

I see that a few people think Brian Dozier received the short end of the stick this season with his opportunity. The reality is that he did not play very well. I can assure everyone that we have not seen the last of Dozier. I envision him getting a fair shake next season. My guess is that he is the opening day second baseman.

Shortstop is another question all together. As this organization stands now there is no long term answer on our 40 man roster or in the organization. If the Twins want a better than stop gap shortstop, they will either have to acquire a shortstop from another organization or wait a number of years until they can develop one.

The Twins had a somewhat affordable slick fielding shortstop two seasons ago who could also swing the stick a bit. They exchanged him for less than nothing and made some very erroneous decisions regarding the shortstop position in the 2010 off season. The Twins organization made this bed. Unfortunately, we all have to sleep in it.

On the sunny side of things (not really), we are not the first organization to screw things up and won't be the last. 2011, 2012 and probably beyond is our turn to fester in the MLB landfill.

Edited by Lesser Dali, 17 September 2012 - 05:37 PM.


#19 Thrylos

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Posted 17 September 2012 - 05:36 PM

Talking about who is going to be the starting shortstop in 2013 right now, is like trying to pick paint color for your living room while there is a hole in your roof...

Low priority. Unless this team upgrades the rotation in 2013 it will not matter who the SS will be, so it might as well be anyone.
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#20 Badsmerf

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Posted 17 September 2012 - 08:42 PM

Talking about who is going to be the starting shortstop in 2013 right now, is like trying to pick paint color for your living room while there is a hole in your roof...

Low priority. Unless this team upgrades the rotation in 2013 it will not matter who the SS will be, so it might as well be anyone.

Disagree. SS is an important position, one that makes a big defensive impact. I can handle amazing fielding SS if they can hit even a little, draw some walks, and maybe steal some bases. Florimon does none of that, and isn't even a very good fielder. I seriously don't get the love for this guy. Yes he is smooth and makes some nice plays, but how can the same guy that ripped Plouffe for inconsistency praise someone that has been just as bad? Plus, Florimon might not even hit over .200. Penciling him in for SS next year would be a terrible mistake and almost guarantee futility.

#21 TheLeviathan

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Posted 17 September 2012 - 08:52 PM

Florimon has not been very impressive defensively - the tools are there but the execution has not been.

That said....on what is this insanity about Dozier not getting a fair shot based on? Hell, the guy basically had a scholarship for about a month and a half before he was finally demoted.

#22 acrozelle

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Posted 17 September 2012 - 08:59 PM

Who else is excited for the worst hitting middle infield in the league next season?

#23 Shane Wahl

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Posted 17 September 2012 - 10:37 PM

Florimon has not been very impressive defensively - the tools are there but the execution has not been.

That said....on what is this insanity about Dozier not getting a fair shot based on? Hell, the guy basically had a scholarship for about a month and a half before he was finally demoted.


Sometimes being forced to play over your head means not getting a fair shot. He was just in A and AA ball last year! He needed more time to get it together in Rochester. He should have gotten 250+ plate appearances before any promotion. Failing that, he certainly should have been sent back down much earlier in order to get back on track. And THEN he should have been playing 2B in Rochester, then called up and gotten time at 2B for the Twins.

#24 Shane Wahl

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Posted 17 September 2012 - 10:39 PM

Question: does anyone else find Gardy's like of Jekyl and Hyde great/bad Florimon over the steady non-flashy consistency of Jamey Carroll a bit puzzling? What was the Castro/Bartlett nonsense about back in the day (I repressed that memory)?

#25 snepp

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Posted 17 September 2012 - 11:01 PM

Question: does anyone else find Gardy's like of Jekyl and Hyde great/bad Florimon over the steady non-flashy consistency of Jamey Carroll a bit puzzling? What was the Castro/Bartlett nonsense about back in the day (I repressed that memory)?


Castro VP > Carroll VP




(VP = veteran presence)

#26 phalvorson

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Posted 18 September 2012 - 02:50 PM

[quote name='Riverbrian'][quote name='Boom Boom'][quote name='Riverbrian'][quote name='Boom Boom'][quote name='Oxtung'][quote name='Boom Boom']I think I'd rather have Jamey Carroll as the regular shortstop.[/QUOTE]

Remember that if Carroll gets 401 PA's next season he has a PLAYER option for 2014 when he will be 40 years old. Would you still rather have Carroll?[/QUOTE]

Yes. If I'm the Twins I'm not thinking about $2 million for Carroll in 2014, I'm trying to put my best players out there.

I really don't want Carroll there either, but I'd rather give him 401 PAs next year than give Florimon 401 PAs, option or not.[/QUOTE]

If Florimon gets 401 at bats next year... It will mean that he got better at some things and is doing a job. Therefore no problem... If he continues to struggle... He won't see 401 at bats in 2013.

If Carroll gets 401 at bats next year... It will mean that Florimon and Escobar and Dozier or a new MI didnt get the job done and we needed Carroll to hold down the fort.

Im hoping Carroll doesn't get 401 at bats for that reason.[/QUOTE]

There you go. Are you confident that the Twins will have all of 2B, shortstop, and 3B locked down for an entire season next year? It hasn't happened recently. And look at the guys you named - I'd even add Plouffe to the list - how many do you think will be able to stick without needing to be replaced?

Like I said before, it looks to me like Carroll will get enough PAs anyway.[/QUOTE]

I am not confident at all. I think Plouffe is the guy at third and I dont believe the Twins will be looking for a 3B. The hot streak he had this year was stunning. Once you display a streak like that... the Twins would be foolish to not keep him in place in case he does it again. Go ahead and write Plouffes name down and etch it in stone.

SS and 2B are huge question marks and so is the overall depth. The Twins have multiple holes to plug and itll be hard tp plug them all... I don't expect a big hitting SS or 2b to show up.

Im not going to worry about .240 or .210 at the plate. The difference will mean very little. I'm gonna try and be reasonable and say simply... Give me someone who can gobble up the routine stuff and make the near impossible play every once in awhile. Florimon looks like he could be that guy but he has to nail down the routine stuff or he won't be given the chance to make the big play. He will lose the job to Escobar or Dozier or Carroll.

Drew is not the answer. Please God no... Pitching is the priority so let's surround those pitchers with players who can get the ball up the middle. Florimon has done nothing to prove he is the long term answer so far... He's just shown flashes of ability that suggest he could be at the very least... A guy who will support the pitching and the pitching will need all the support it can get.

Its all about opportunity and Florimon is getting his right now. It's up to him to grab it. He may not. Let's see... Too soon to say right now.[/QUOTE]

I'm specifically replying to this quote: "Im not going to worry about .240 or .210 at the plate. The difference will mean very little. I'm gonna try and be reasonable and say simply... Give me someone who can gobble up the routine stuff and make the near impossible play every once in awhile."

Did you just EXACTLY describe Nick Punto, who everyone wanted gone for years? He hit below Mendoza, handled the routine plays, and occasionally made the impossible. Those are some pretty low expectations for a new Twins starting SS, huh?

#27 snepp

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Posted 18 September 2012 - 03:00 PM

I know I'm looking forward to another season of a .600 OPS middle infield. Which, disgusting as it may sound, would be an improvement. They've only managed a .589 OPS this season.


That's right, .589, in nearly 1,200 plate appearances. And yet there are people that don't think the middle infield requires attention?

#28 Shane Wahl

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Posted 18 September 2012 - 03:19 PM

I know I'm looking forward to another season of a .600 OPS middle infield. Which, disgusting as it may sound, would be an improvement. They've only managed a .589 OPS this season.


That's right, .589, in nearly 1,200 plate appearances. And yet there are people that don't think the middle infield requires attention?


Improve by subtraction (Casilla) and improvement (Dozier, Florimon). Also, are you sure that number is correct? Carroll is at .637, Florimon .623, Dozier finished .603 . . . then Casilla .572 (Escobar, Hughes, and Nishioka are lower, but with very few PAs). Still bad, but not quite that bad.

#29 snepp

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Posted 18 September 2012 - 03:34 PM

I didn't do the math, just pulled up the BRef splits.

I've still got hope for Dozier at 2nd given that Gardy has apparently written him off at short.

Florimon is going to be 26 with a .670 minor league OPS, how much improvement is there to be had there? I'd be shocked if he can manage to do better than a low .600 OPS in his career.

#30 Shane Wahl

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Posted 18 September 2012 - 03:40 PM

I didn't do the math, just pulled up the BRef splits.

I've still got hope for Dozier at 2nd given that Gardy has apparently written him off at short.

Florimon is going to be 26 with a .670 minor league OPS, how much improvement is there to be had there? I'd be shocked if he can manage to do better than a low .600 OPS in his career.


I like the idea of Dozier at 2B. Good thing they promoted him in September to do that . . .

Florimon might be a .650 OPS guy, and I don't expect much more. Let's say that Florimon, Dozier, and Carroll collectively produce a .650 OPS next year. Is that good enough improvement? I just REALLY don't trust the Twins' evaluation of FA middle infielders, so I don't know what they are going to do other than hope for Danny Santana and Levi Michael to have breakout seasons at AA.