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Article: Rundown: Sonny, LeMahieu, Non-Tenders and More

sonny gray dj lemahieu c.j. cron robbie grossman jonathan schoop
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#21 scottz

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Posted 27 November 2018 - 04:23 PM

 

Machado is a dog. Don't want him. 

 

 

A dog that is very, very good at baseball.


#22 raindog

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Posted 27 November 2018 - 04:28 PM

 

The articles I read continue to have me question the real value of Free Agency.This lottery with players at the end of their career, coming off a down year, declining in production, unhappy, taking up too much money or space.  

 

Free Agency is such an attractive time for fans and probably for FO dreamers as well, but the real value is seldom in the big stars.How many pennants have the Nationals won with Harper or the Angels with Trout.  

 

The key is to build a total roster and going huge for a single star and then backfilling is not a good formula.Signing one year players that you hope will do well, but will leave if they do does not build a winning culture either.

 

I know I am glad I do not have to make these decisions, but if I did Harper and Machado would not like my offers.

 

I think you are right in general. However, Machado and Harper are special cases. They've hit the market at a young age and should have a great 5 years or so of production. Then you have to deal with the backend of the contract and that's not great. But the goal should be to win a World Series in those 5 years. And that would make it all worth it. 

 

The Twins aren't going to sign one, unfortunately. But I think they should. They have the money. 

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#23 Kelly Vance

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Posted 27 November 2018 - 04:33 PM

 

I hope they acquire some long term assets this year. They've acquired one MLB player that was for more than 2 years so far....one.

 

So, while I think Gray is an interesting bounce back option, that leaves Pineda, Gibson, Gray and Odorizzi all with 1 year left on the team. That doesn't scream long term competitiveness to me.

It sure doesn't.So do they think Romero and others will step up and fashion a dream rotation of hot shots?

 

I can't believe they think they can replace 4 guys. So deals will have to be made. 

 

 

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#24 Kelly Vance

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Posted 27 November 2018 - 04:37 PM

 

Not to mention the Twins have some internal options if they like (slide Polanco over and start Gordon @ SS for one, or vice versa).

 

Not ideal, but it's not the worst option either if the $$ are spent wisely elsewhere.

I think they need to figure out if Gordon figures in....

 

 

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#25 tarheeltwinsfan

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Posted 27 November 2018 - 06:57 PM

Tom, I really enjoy this column. Thank you.

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#26 Aerodeliria

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Posted 27 November 2018 - 07:25 PM

Yes, very nice article, and I would keep Grossman over Adrianza if I had a choice of the two. Neither have much power but I like the fact that Grossman will always make the pitchers throw strikes.

 

I'd take a flier on Sonny Gray if the price is cheap enough. (As the rule of thumb goes, you can never have too much pitching...especially in the era when most teams lose a pitcher or two for part or all of a season). NY is a super high pressure environment--all the time...you gotta love that kind of atmosphere and some players handle it better than others. Maybe Mr. Gray didn't thrive is said environment (on that note some teams handle the NY pressure better than others as well (I'm thinking of Bosox compared to the Twinkies here)).

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#27 Tom Froemming

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Posted 27 November 2018 - 08:07 PM

 

Tom, I really enjoy this column. Thank you.

Glad to hear, thanks for the feedback. I'm thinking of incorporating a rundown/news and notes/link dump element like this into next year's game recaps.

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#28 highlander

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Posted 27 November 2018 - 08:29 PM

I'm surprised Grossman stuck around as long as he did.

#29 TheLeviathan

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Posted 27 November 2018 - 08:34 PM

One look at Lemahieu's home/road splits should end anyone's interest.

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#30 DocBauer

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Posted 27 November 2018 - 08:59 PM

Just not interested in Lemahieu. And not just because I'd have to learn how to spell his name daily, lol. As mentioned, I don't like his splits and the market is flooded. Glad I don't have to make the final decision, but please, make the right call here. I don't care if its Lowry at 2B, (but my preferred choice), or someone else, or Iglesius and move Polanco to 2B now. Just spend the $8-10M on the right guy!

I'm just not excited about Gray, though maybe he could be a steal for someone away from NY. I want to see Berrios continue to develop, lock up Gibson with something fair, see what Pineda and Odorizzi do, and roll through/audition Romero, Gonsalves, Stewart, Littell and Thorpe. It's time to see what we have here, for 2019 and beyond.

I actually like a healthy Pineda. Nothing spectacular, but solid career numbers when you look at them.

No to Gray. Roll with what we have. Develop what we have. Re-evaluate mid-season to see if the right opportunity is there, or hold out until next offseason.
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"Nice catch Hayes...don't ever f*****g do it again."

 

--Lou Brown


#31 ChrisKnutson

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Posted 27 November 2018 - 09:08 PM

Why give up anything for Gray when we have Romero/Mejia/Thorpe/Stewart??? Now if we’re talking Eovaldi, I’d be all in, but this is a guy who struggled immensely on the big stage to the point of being demoted to the bullpen and yet is still likely to command an unfair return (cmon it’s the Yankees, what do ya expect); hard pass. And enough with the Machado talk, it ain’t happening.

Now while I’m encouraged to see that we’ve shown interest in LeMahieu (a quality player), I really doubt we’re gonna come on top in that market given that we’re competing with the Nats and the Dodgers, along with the fact that the FO pretty much said they weren’t going be big FA players this year. And given the state of the Twins at the moment, I’m not sure why we’re even interested in LeMahieu, other than the fact that he’s a 2nd basemen, because Jed Lowrie just seems like a way better fit. Think about it, we wouldn’t have to commit as much $$$ or years to Lowrie, and in return we’d get the same, if not better production from him compared to if we signed LeMahieu. Now all we have to do is convince Lowrie that MN is the best state to live in, oh wait.

#32 USAFChief

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Posted 27 November 2018 - 09:10 PM

Tom, I really enjoy this column. Thank you.


Concur.
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Cutting my carbs...with a pizza slicer.


#33 Vanimal46

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Posted 27 November 2018 - 09:13 PM

I think you are right in general. However, Machado and Harper are special cases. They've hit the market at a young age and should have a great 5 years or so of production. Then you have to deal with the backend of the contract and that's not great. But the goal should be to win a World Series in those 5 years. And that would make it all worth it.

The Twins aren't going to sign one, unfortunately. But I think they should. They have the money.


Love your post. When it comes to Harper and Machado's contracts, I think they're going to include multiple out-years throughout the duration of the contract. My guess is the first player opt-out is 2-3 years into the contract. Perhaps at the end of the 2021 season when the CBA expires... The second opt-out 5-6 years into the contract.

So there's a chance the team signing him now has to pay the final years if they opt out!
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#34 Wizard11

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Posted 27 November 2018 - 10:41 PM

Tom, this column is fun and it’s style encourages interesting and civil discourse. Much appreciated.
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#35 terrydactyls1947

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Posted 28 November 2018 - 09:30 AM

My opinion is that Machado would never agree to move to Minnesota no matter how much money is offered. But if the Twins were to make an offer to Machado that exceeded all others by such a wide margin that Machado becomes a Twin, then what? They would still have holes at 3B/1B, OF, C, and both relief pitching and starters and no money left to fill them. But they would have a fancy new toy at shortstop. The Twins need to fill lots of holes, not one. Forget Machado.

#36 Mike Sixel

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Posted 28 November 2018 - 09:51 AM

 

My opinion is that Machado would never agree to move to Minnesota no matter how much money is offered. But if the Twins were to make an offer to Machado that exceeded all others by such a wide margin that Machado becomes a Twin, then what? They would still have holes at 3B/1B, OF, C, and both relief pitching and starters and no money left to fill them. But they would have a fancy new toy at shortstop. The Twins need to fill lots of holes, not one. Forget Machado.

 

Well, he's going to be great for years....not just 1-2. I don't understand this argument at all. And, they'd have money to spend still. Just not a ton.

 

That said, he's not coming here, because they'd never offer him what other teams will. Which is certainly defendable.

I remain hopeful on Buxton and Sano.....but I'd not bet the franchise on them.


#37 terrydactyls1947

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Posted 28 November 2018 - 10:27 AM

Well, he's going to be great for years....not just 1-2. I don't understand this argument at all. And, they'd have money to spend still. Just not a ton.
 
That said, he's not coming here, because they'd never offer him what other teams will. Which is certainly defendable.


I never said he wouldn't be great for years and I didn't mention any number of years so I don't understand your counterargument at all. And how much money would they have left if $35M a year was allocated to a single person? And would $3M even be enough to get him to Minnesota? I doubt it.

#38 Mike Sixel

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Posted 28 November 2018 - 10:36 AM

 

I never said he wouldn't be great for years and I didn't mention any number of years so I don't understand your counterargument at all. And how much money would they have left if $35M a year was allocated to a single person? And would $3M even be enough to get him to Minnesota? I doubt it.

 

Your argument seemed to be they'd still have holes, this year.....which is true. If he's great for years to come, they should be able to fill those holes. If not, then it doesn't matter if they sign him or not, if they still have that many holes 2-3 years from now, this team will be bad. So maybe I didn't read your post correctly.

 

They can afford as many players as they want, it depends on how much profit they want to make. Atlanta made 100 million last year, with a similar payroll and tv deal......so there is money to be spent if they want to. Would it be a massive percent paid to one player? Yes. Does that mean they can't find ways to make it work? Imo, no. But, I understand the counter argument, especially based on what they are likely to do, vs what they could do.

I remain hopeful on Buxton and Sano.....but I'd not bet the franchise on them.


#39 neboo

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Posted 28 November 2018 - 02:39 PM

I'm going to go against the popular opinion here. I am in favor of signing LeMahieu.

 

He has always been a better home hitter (show me what Rockies player hasn't), but he hasn't been awful away from Coors, except for an outlier season or two. Last year his average away from Coors was down, but his power was up. Is he changing things, buying into the power/launch angle rhetoric? The park factor drop off from Coors to Target field isn't as drastic as other places, especially when it comes to 2B, which is his greatest power threat. At the end of the day, he could be a nice top of the order addition, batting somewhere .290/.340/.410and playing gold glove defense at 30 years old. 2B is flooded, maybe that will bring his price down? I'd love to see a breakdown vs. other available 2b, including Jorge Polanco if he moved over.

I'll Denard your Span.

#40 Mr. Brooks

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Posted 28 November 2018 - 06:53 PM

I'm going to go against the popular opinion here. I am in favor of signing LeMahieu.

He has always been a better home hitter (show me what Rockies player hasn't), but he hasn't been awful away from Coors, except for an outlier season or two. Last year his average away from Coors was down, but his power was up. Is he changing things, buying into the power/launch angle rhetoric? The park factor drop off from Coors to Target field isn't as drastic as other places, especially when it comes to 2B, which is his greatest power threat. At the end of the day, he could be a nice top of the order addition, batting somewhere .290/.340/.410 and playing gold glove defense at 30 years old. 2B is flooded, maybe that will bring his price down? I'd love to see a breakdown vs. other available 2b, including Jorge Polanco if he moved over.


He HAS been awful away from Coors.
.673 lifetime OPS away from Coors, that's unacceptable from anyone but a catcher.
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