Jump to content

Providing independent coverage of the Minnesota Twins.
Subscribe to Twins Daily Email
Photo

I came across this rumor about Thor and the Mets and had to ask....

  • Please log in to reply
50 replies to this topic

#21 SF Twins Fan

SF Twins Fan

    Chattanooga Lookouts

  • Members
  • 537 posts
  • LocationNew York City, NY

Posted 24 November 2018 - 04:12 PM

Would Kepler, Gonsalves, Romero and Gordon be enough for the Mets to make the trade? Kepler has a few years of experience, Gonsalves and Romero are both middle of the rotation and potentially a #2 or #3 in a rotation and Gordon even though he struggled this season has a lot of potential. He might not be an all star every year but should be a consistent contributor every season. That would be four players who are either at or knocking on the door of the MLB.

Edited by SF Twins Fan, 24 November 2018 - 04:52 PM.

  • glunn likes this

#22 DocBauer

DocBauer

    Senior Member

  • Members
  • 4,569 posts

Posted 24 November 2018 - 04:37 PM

Syndergaard is injury prone, He is a couple of years behind Yu Darvish but on the same trajectory.
 
The Twins have enough guys whose body parts are in danger of falling off at any moment.
 
The silver lining is he would be cheap (salary-wise) if the Twins want to take the risk. I would say let some other team dole out prospects for a guy who will max out at 120-140 innings/yr until the inevitable 0-60 innings/yr injury event happens (again).
 
The Twins are (re-)building and sending prospects packing for a guy with this profile when there are 6-8 roles to fill doesn't make sense, in my opinion. The Mets don't need to salary dump the guy so the prospect price will be too high for how much risk this would be taking on.


I have to agree here. I don't believe the FO is planning on punting for 2019 in the least. And I believe we will absolutely see some solid FA signings, possibly a trade, along with a couple 1 year fliers.

But I believe them when they are talking about sustained success for the organization. And I feel there are enough questions to be answered from certain players, and certain holes to be filled, that they are not going to go in hard on a front line pitcher until 2020 or mid season 2019 of things break right.

And that may be the smartest thing to do. Find that infielder we need for the next couple of years, along with at least one bat, if not two. There may be financial room and roster room to bring in Santana for 1B/DH on a low prospect deal AND sign a guy who can clearly still play in McCutchen, for instance. Shore up the pen with a major signing and probably a bounce back flier.

I long for another top SP as well. But with these moves, better health and bounceback/development from on hand talent, maybe we ride a still improving Berrios, the solid Gibson, Pineda and Odorizzi and audition the 5th spot, (openers or not), between Romero, Stewart, Gonsalves, Littell and Thorpe and then make that big move once the FO and new coaching staff really determines what they have.
  • glunn, Kelly Vance and Doomtints like this

"Nice catch Hayes...don't ever f*****g do it again."

 

--Lou Brown


#23 DocBauer

DocBauer

    Senior Member

  • Members
  • 4,569 posts

Posted 24 November 2018 - 04:39 PM

Would Kepler, Gonsalves, Romero and Gordon be enough for the Mets to make the trade? Kepler has a few years of experience, Gonsalves and Romero are both middle of the rotation and potentially a #2 or #3 in a rotation and Gordon even though he struggled this season has a lot of potential. He might be an all star every year but should be a consistent contributor every season. That would be four players who are either at or knocking on the door of the MLB.


Not saying I want to make that deal, but it makes sense to me. When a trade package hurts, it usually means it's a good offer. To me, losing those 4 hurts. So it's probably at least close.
  • glunn likes this

"Nice catch Hayes...don't ever f*****g do it again."

 

--Lou Brown


#24 nicksaviking

nicksaviking

    Billy G.O.A.T

  • Twins Mods
  • 12,905 posts

Posted 24 November 2018 - 05:56 PM

Would Kepler, Gonsalves, Romero and Gordon be enough for the Mets to make the trade? Kepler has a few years of experience, Gonsalves and Romero are both middle of the rotation and potentially a #2 or #3 in a rotation and Gordon even though he struggled this season has a lot of potential. He might not be an all star every year but should be a consistent contributor every season. That would be four players who are either at or knocking on the door of the MLB.


Romero is the only member of that group I’d resent losing, so I’d imagine that’s too light. Sounds like the Mets are most interested in MLB ready offense, multiple pieces too. It’s hard to see Kepler as the centerpiece and only MLB ready bat snagging Syndergaard.

Though you never know what other teams value I guess.
  • USAFChief and glunn like this

#25 Brandon

Brandon

    Senior Member

  • Members
  • 1,856 posts

Posted 24 November 2018 - 10:40 PM

Based on what is mentioned above we can make a package built around the following players:

Sano
Buxton
Kepler
Cave
Garver
Maybe Polanco

Gordon
Rooker
Killeroff
Lewis

May
Rogers

We also have several pitching prospects we could trade for other pieces to include in the trade.

Maybe trade Romero to the Cubs for Happ (i dont know if we need other prospects to balance trade)

But acquired player, Gordon, Garver, and Kepler or Cave and May or Rogers.

Getting 5 low cost players will do wonders for the Mets payroll. 3 starters, a role player, and a good reliever. While a reliever will not make or break the deal, one at 1 million who is real good is better than paying 8 million for free agents. This puts the Mets payroll in a good situation we will need a C and reliever to make up for talent traded since we have replacements for the other two.

But really we have lots of ways to make a deal work. Its all about making sure we have replacements for who we give up as we dont want too many more holes on our club.

Edited by Brandon, 24 November 2018 - 10:43 PM.

  • glunn likes this

#26 Major League Ready

Major League Ready

    Senior Member

  • Members
  • 1,705 posts

Posted 25 November 2018 - 09:27 AM

Syndergaard is a true ace entering his prime with 3 years of control. The Mets are going to ask for a ludicrous return. Absolutely no way the Mets trade him if they are no very confident 2 of the players coming back are going to have an impact for several years and the top player coming back will likely have a ceiling to be as impactful as Syndergaard.

 

The only teams that will be willing to play this price are teams that are currently contenders or very close to contention. Houston, NY, or Boston acquiring Syndergaard would have a significant impact on the balance of power among these “super teams”. The enormous cost might be worth it. With McCullers getting TJ, Houston needs a major SP acquisition to keep pace even if they retain Keuchel.

 

Acquiring Syndergaard would also position several NL teams on the same level as the top AL contenders. Atlanta is just starting their window of contention and have the farm system to make the trade. He would make a huge difference in Milwaukee and they can’t afford this type of SP in free agency even if one existed. The Dodgers and Cubs be willing to pay the price to keep pace. 

 

Bottom line is trading for Syndergaard right now makes far more sense for a number of teams not in MN.


#27 Kelly Vance

Kelly Vance

    Junior Member

  • Members
  • 498 posts

Posted 25 November 2018 - 03:32 PM

The only way to get Thor is to overpay. 

 

We can use our assets in a better way.

 

I'd like them to signa couple stud FAs before Christmas. That makes it easier to tell other guys we are serious about competing. 


#28 AlwaysinModeration

AlwaysinModeration

    Rochester Red Wings

  • Members
  • 1,957 posts

Posted 02 December 2018 - 07:39 AM

The Mets, in addition to potentially taking on Robinson Cano and Edwin Diaz from the Mariners, are apparently “motivated” to move on from Noah Syndergaard, according to Kiley Daniels from Fangraphs. Interesting that he notes the new Mets GM happens to have previously been Syndergaard’s agent.

A recent MLB Trade Rumors piece says possible trade partners include the Padres (but who wouldn’t trade Fernando Tatis or Mackenzie Gore) or the Brewers.

The Mets don’t appear to be afraid to take on salary, and would apparently like established big leaguers and presumably prospects. I guess they view it as being able to get a haul of prospects/established players for Syndergaard, and then they could sign another pitcher like Corbin.

He’s 26 years old, projected at $5.9 million in arbitration this year, with two more years of arbitration to go. A quick review of his stats:

He’s posted 13 WAR in his 4 seasons, including 4 WAR in 2018. He pitched a max of 180IP in 2016. His career K/9 rate is 9.9, with 2.0BB/9, for a nice 4.94K/BB rate. His career ERA is 2.93, with his high being his rookie year at 3.24. His career WHIP is 1.13, but it was up to 1.21 last year.

His pitching repertoire is
Fastball: averaged 97.4mph in 2018, down from 98.3 in 2017 and 98.0 in 2016. Threw it 54% of the time last year.
Slider: average 92mph in 2018, 92.5 in 2017, throws 21% of time
Curveball: average 83mph, 10%
Changeup: average 90mph, 14%

In my blueprint (http://twinsdaily.com/topic/31636-create-your-own-offseason-blueprint/page-2#entry806784) I proposed trading Kepler, Castro, Romero and Gordon. Both Gordon and Romero have made top 100 lists (including Gordon on some this year, although his evaluation is mixed). Kepler and Castro are established big leaguers that the Mets seem to want in deals.

I assume the Mets would ask for Royce Lewis, Alex Kiriloff or Brusdar Graterol. Sano would probably come up in conversations as well. Would strongly like to avoid including any of them in a deal. Graterol would be acceptable to trade, I suppose, given his distance from the show, and thus greater uncertainty, but I’d make the other three untouchable. I would consider including Jorge Polanco in any deal, or Gonsalves instead of Romero. I would not like to trade Buxton to get this done. Trevor May, Brent Rooker, or Trevor Larnach would certainly be on the table for such a trade, in my view. Rosario would also need to be on the table, I think. Berrios, no.

So here are three possible trades:

—Kepler, Castro, Romero, Gordon

—Polanco, May, Rooker, Enlow

—Rosario, Rodgers, Graterol, Baddoo

A rotation that looks like this is starting to look formidable:

Syndegaard
Berrios
Gibson
Odorizzi
Pineda/Mejia

Would any of my three scenarios above get it done? Would you do any of the three trade options above? I said Lewis, Kiriloff, Sano and Buxton should be untouchable. What trade package would you offer, and who would be off the table for you?

And most importantly, doesn’t it just seem inevitable that a guy nicknamed Thor lead a team from The North to battle?

Edited by AlwaysinModeration, 02 December 2018 - 08:13 AM.


#29 Tomj14

Tomj14

    Chattanooga Lookouts

  • Members
  • 585 posts

Posted 02 December 2018 - 08:28 AM

I want THOR, but when I look at trades I try to put the shoe on the other foot, would you trade Berrios for any of those options?

I think the only one I would consider would be the last one.

And that one makes the Twins better in starting pitchers, but weaker in the outfield, relief pitching and prospects. I would rather add prospects and subtract Rosario or Rodgers.


#30 Sconnie

Sconnie

    Touch ‘em all!

  • Members
  • 3,931 posts
  • LocationNW Wisconsin

Posted 02 December 2018 - 08:29 AM

So apparently this still has some legs?

http://twinsdaily.co...k/?fromsearch=1

The gist I got there was NY was looking for major league talent at OF, IF and C. I would offer:

Buxton
Gordon
Castro
Gonsalves

#31 AlwaysinModeration

AlwaysinModeration

    Rochester Red Wings

  • Members
  • 1,957 posts

Posted 02 December 2018 - 08:54 AM

So apparently this still has some legs?

http://twinsdaily.co...k/?fromsearch=1

The gist I got there was NY was looking for major league talent at OF, IF and C. I would offer:

Buxton
Gordon
Castro
Gonsalves


Apologies, I had it seen that other thread. Clearly some strong opinions there, and views that Lewis or Kiriloff would need to be in the trade. I don’t know if I agree. The Twins have a very deep system, and also a lot of very young, recently established players.

For example, a deal of:
Rosario, May, Romero and Graterol would certainly be painful to accept from the Twins standpoint. I don’t know if I’d want to do it.

However, if they then went out and signed David Robertson Andrew Miller and Michael Brantley, it looks more bearable, right?

#32 AlwaysinModeration

AlwaysinModeration

    Rochester Red Wings

  • Members
  • 1,957 posts

Posted 02 December 2018 - 10:16 AM

Thanks to the moderators for combining the two threads and putting Thor in the headline. I didn’t see the original thread when I created a thread entitled “Thor” this morning (which is copied in the thread above).

Edited by AlwaysinModeration, 02 December 2018 - 10:17 AM.


#33 cmoss84

cmoss84

    Ft Myers

  • Members
  • 307 posts
  • LocationBakersfield, CA

Posted 02 December 2018 - 02:05 PM

Something like Kepler, Graterol, Gordon and Garver might be enticing enough to the Mets, and we would be able to keep Lewis and Kiriloff. 

 

 

...but i'm guessing it's going to take one of the two to headline a package.

 

Edited by cmoss84, 02 December 2018 - 02:06 PM.

I'd rather have a bottle in front of me than a frontal lobotomy.


#34 SydneyTwinsFan

SydneyTwinsFan

    Senior Member

  • Members
  • 288 posts
  • LocationSydney, Australia

Posted 02 December 2018 - 05:57 PM

I think it takes Lewis, Kepler and one of Romero / Gonsalves / Graterol for them to return your call.


#35 ChrisKnutson

ChrisKnutson

    Junior Member

  • Members
  • 312 posts

Posted 02 December 2018 - 07:18 PM

I think it takes Lewis, Kepler and one of Romero / Gonsalves / Graterol for them to return your call.


If that’s the case, then why not just sign Keuchel (and or Eovaldi), not only because we actually need a left-handed starter (and recent WS experience), but mostly because I don’t think “Thor” is worth giving up the #7 prospect in all of baseball.
  • brvama likes this

#36 mlhouse

mlhouse

    Senior Member

  • Members
  • 583 posts

Posted 02 December 2018 - 07:32 PM

 

Something like Kepler, Graterol, Gordon and Garver might be enticing enough to the Mets, and we would be able to keep Lewis and Kiriloff. 

 

 

...but i'm guessing it's going to take one of the two to headline a package.

 

I love all of these responses to trade rumors.First, the Twins have very little chance of making any deal. Second, including scraps like Kepler, Polanco, Castro or Garver gets you nothing.Including Castro in any trade reduces the trade value, not enhances it.  

 

Lastly, we overrate the trade value of our prospects.Gonsalves might still be a prospect, but he is a mid-level prospect at best and is a 24 year old that has 24 innings of MLB experience.To make a deal for a 25 year old starter the Twins would have to include at least one of Lewis or Kirilloff (if not both), another upper tier prospect like Trevor Larnach, and a pitching prospect:Romero, Enlow, or Graterol.Maybe the Mets would really value 2 prospects and you could get away with just that, but that is what it would take.

 

To ask yourself if this is the case, what would you expect to get for JJ Berrios?Would a package of Max Kepler, Mitch Garver, Nick Gordon, and Brudasar Graterol do it for you?I think you would laugh at such an offer, and it can be very easily argued that Syndergaard is a better player.

  • Tomj14 likes this

#37 Mike Sixel

Mike Sixel

    Now living in Oregon

  • Members
  • 27,582 posts

Posted 02 December 2018 - 08:21 PM

An ace with three years of control isn't worth a top prospect. Then apparently no one is.

These comments read just like what people said about never trading Buxton, and two or three years of his control are gone... With nothing to show.

A large number of people basically want this FO to stick to the Ryan plan, of never trading prospects for actual MLB players, at it's it reads this way. Three years of control. This isn't a win now move....
  • Vanimal46, Tomj14 and Battle ur tail off like this

I remain hopeful on Buxton and Sano.....but I'd not bet the franchise on them.


#38 Mr. Brooks

Mr. Brooks

    Senior Member

  • Members
  • 6,064 posts

Posted 02 December 2018 - 09:52 PM

An ace with three years of control isn't worth a top prospect. Then apparently no one is.

These comments read just like what people said about never trading Buxton, and two or three years of his control are gone... With nothing to show.

A large number of people basically want this FO to stick to the Ryan plan, of never trading prospects for actual MLB players, at it's it reads this way. Three years of control. This isn't a win now move....


I don't think it's fair to say that anyone who wouldn't trade Lewis thinks that Thor isn't "worth" a top prospect.

There are plenty of things at the store that are "worth" their sticker prices, but that doesn't mean I want to buy them.

If the Mets will take Kiriloff instead, then go for it. I'd rather keep Lewis though.
Prospects often bust, or don't become the stars they are supposed to, that is true.
But, sometimes they become superstars. And we could use one of those too, maybe more than we need an ace, even.
I'm not trading Lewis for anyone, even though there are plenty of players who are worth a prospect of his stature.

#39 cmoss84

cmoss84

    Ft Myers

  • Members
  • 307 posts
  • LocationBakersfield, CA

Posted 03 December 2018 - 01:20 PM

 

Something like Kepler, Graterol, Gordon and Garver might be enticing enough to the Mets, and we would be able to keep Lewis and Kiriloff. 

 

 

...but i'm guessing it's going to take one of the two to headline a package.

 

I love all of these responses to trade rumors.First, the Twins have very little chance of making any deal. Second, including scraps like Kepler, Polanco, Castro or Garver gets you nothing.Including Castro in any trade reduces the trade value, not enhances it.  

 

Lastly, we overrate the trade value of our prospects.Gonsalves might still be a prospect, but he is a mid-level prospect at best and is a 24 year old that has 24 innings of MLB experience.To make a deal for a 25 year old starter the Twins would have to include at least one of Lewis or Kirilloff (if not both), another upper tier prospect like Trevor Larnach, and a pitching prospect:Romero, Enlow, or Graterol.Maybe the Mets would really value 2 prospects and you could get away with just that, but that is what it would take.

 

To ask yourself if this is the case, what would you expect to get for JJ Berrios?Would a package of Max Kepler, Mitch Garver, Nick Gordon, and Brudasar Graterol do it for you?I think you would laugh at such an offer, and it can be very easily argued that Syndergaard is a better player.

*Not sure if you missed the part in bold-I'm sure it will take Lewis/Kiriloff to headline a deal. 

 

*I wouldn't exactly call Polanco or Kepler "scraps." I think they do have some value.

 

*I agree with you that we overvalue our prospects. I have been all about trading for multiple players-no matter who it takes.

 

*To answer your last question, I don't think that offer for Berrios would be laughed at. But Syndergaard is better/has higher ceiling. Berrios has one more year of control, so they have about the same value.

 

*The Mets situation seems rather odd to me. Are they buyers or sellers? Why trade Syndergaard with 3 cheap years left? Are they trying to get max value? Do they know something that nobody else does? Are they just putting their feelers out to see if they can get a Sale-like return?

 

The next few weeks are going to be fun!

 

 

  • Sconnie likes this

I'd rather have a bottle in front of me than a frontal lobotomy.


#40 framedoctor

framedoctor

    Elizabethton

  • Members
  • 3 posts

Posted 03 December 2018 - 05:44 PM

No way I would blow up the farm for Thor, and krilloff, seriously? When the twins were busy sucking this year I found myself watching MILB and the progress of Krilloff, Larnach and Lewis. Screw 2019, build a dynasty. :)