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I came across this rumor about Thor and the Mets and had to ask....

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#1 Brandon

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Posted 21 November 2018 - 11:57 AM

https://www.mlbtrade...scenarios.html

 

I came across the trade rumor that the Mets are considering trading Thor and would want close to MLB ready prospects for him.I was wondering what it would take to get him from what we have. 

 

It looks like they need position players and maybe a pitcher to replace him in the rotation or pen arm.

 

So we can include Sano, Kepler, Cave, Rooker, Austin, Gordon, Maybe Larnarch and Jeffers if the Mets feel they are advanced enough.  

 

On pitchers we have lots of back end started.Romero could be a mid rotation starter.of the 14 prospects we aquired at the deadline, I don't know if any of them but Austin are close to the majors. or close enough for the Mets.

 

same with bullpen May and Hidenburger and a bunch of prospects.  

 

Would a package of Rooker, Cave, Romero, May and Gordon work?or would it look better if we replaced Rooker with Sano?Or do we need another combination altogether or do we need to include a third team.  

 

And lastly, is this worth pursuing?

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#2 Vanimal46

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Posted 21 November 2018 - 12:02 PM

Any offer not including Lewis or Kirilloff is a non-starter.

They want an elite position player as the headliner https://elitesportsn...ergaard-report/

For the record, I would give up Lewis or Kirilloff plus other prospects they're interested in for 3 years of Thor.
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#3 AceWrigley

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Posted 21 November 2018 - 12:14 PM

Thor belongs in Minnesota. Skol.

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#4 jorgenswest

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Posted 21 November 2018 - 03:19 PM

Any offer not including Lewis or Kirilloff is a non-starter.

They want an elite position player as the headliner https://elitesportsn...ergaard-report/

For the record, I would give up Lewis or Kirilloff plus other prospects they're interested in for 3 years of Thor.


You are right. It will take an elite prospect. I am in if it is Kirilloff.

Suggestions of a package of second and third tier prospects is equivalent to not being interested in this deal.
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#5 diehardtwinsfan

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Posted 22 November 2018 - 09:02 AM

 

 

Would a package of Rooker, Cave, Romero, May and Gordon work?or would it look better if we replaced Rooker with Sano?Or do we need another combination altogether or do we need to include a third team.  

 

 

 

I'm all for getting Thor, but this doesn't make a lot of sense (not to mention very expensive). Thor is a win now move, so sacrificing the ML roster for him is a bad idea. Sano, Cave, and May are all major leaguers and now present holes to fill if they were moved. Sano and May are also potential impact players at their positions, and there's nothing on the team to backfill for them, meaning there's a good chance the 2019 team is worse with Thor if those 3 are gone. The jury is still out on Cave, but he's certainly Buxton insurance/ very good 4th OF at his worst and could potentially be more than that.

 

Rooker, Romero, and Gordon might be a place to start, but I don't see a scenario where AK and/or Lewis aren't involved, nor would it make sense to trade away your higher minor guys to a team looking to rebuild. As well, Romero is likely going to be in the rotation at some point this season, and likely to stay. Rooker and to a lesser extent Gordon could find themselves in the 2019 plans too. If you want Thor, my guess is you start with something like this:

 

1 of AK/Lewis (probably Lewis due to position), Graterol, Gordon or Gonsalves, and probably a high risk/reward guy in the low minors. That's two top 100 guys (Graterol is probably borderline in that area), 1 guy that is a pretty decent bet to be a ML starter and could be very good, and a lotto ticket. 

 

Personally, I'm still a bit salty about the Johann trade, so I would offer something along the lines of what we got from them. 

 

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#6 mike8791

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Posted 22 November 2018 - 09:30 AM

Importantly, Heyman notes that the key for the Mets in any potential deal would be to “fill multiple holes with real impact.” That suggests, unsurprisingly, that new GM Brodie Van Wagenen will not be looking for lower-level prospects. And it also seems to indicate that there’s a rather high asking price for one of the game’s most talented hurlers.

 

Assuming there's some validity to this rumor and Heyman's comment above, a trade to bring Thor to the Twins would likely entail including a major league ready outfielder, infielder and catcher.Yes, that's a haul, but would prefer giving up some current roster players who can be more easily replaced than one of Lewis or Kirillof.  

 

For example, a player like Kepler would likely be a good fit for NY, but would not necessarily leave a big void in the OF with Cave's presence.Similarly, a trade chip like Sano would likely be attractive, as well(after all, the upside is still enormous), but he can (and should) be replaced with Josh Donaldson - a better hitter and fielder.And offering either Castro or Garver would likely fill NY's need for catcher, but still leave the Twins in good shape with Astudillo as reserve.

 

Not saying some other team couldn't top the Twins package, but the FO should be all in for an ace like Thor if they are really serious about competing in 2019.After all, with money available(assuming Pohlad does not want to pocket the $50MM for his portfolio), and a strong FA class, the Twins could easily fill their gaping holes in the bullpen, at DH, and 1B.Adding Thor as an ace without having to give up Berrios or Gibson would go a long way to level the field at least in the Central Division.This is a much bettter move than going after a much older Greineke.

 

The big question remains unanswered : should(and would) the FO go all in now for a 2019 run or should they sit back and wait until the next crop of prospects is ready to contribute in 2021-22?Big decision here, and unfortunately, I would wager the second approach will be followed.Too bad, because the window is opening in the Central Division if they go bold.This truly is a franchise-deciding offseason.

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#7 Kelly Vance

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Posted 22 November 2018 - 09:54 AM

Romero, Gonsalves and Sano for Thor seems a bit much.Buck, Meijia, Gonsalves and Castro might draw interest.Or am I all wet?

Edited by Kelly Vance, 22 November 2018 - 09:55 AM.

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#8 nicksaviking

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Posted 22 November 2018 - 10:01 AM

Any offer not including Lewis or Kirilloff is a non-starter.
They want an elite position player as the headliner https://elitesportsn...ergaard-report/
For the record, I would give up Lewis or Kirilloff plus other prospects they're interested in for 3 years of Thor.

That still sounds like they want young elite MLB caliber position players. I’m not sure if the Twins have any of those. Maybe Rosario if he had more than three years of control left. The Mets are probably referring to Juan Soto and Glyber Torres types, which is probably aiming too high. If they want MLB position players, they might need to settle for quantity over quality.
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#9 Han Joelo

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Posted 22 November 2018 - 10:20 AM

 

 

Personally, I'm still a bit salty about the Johann trade, so I would offer something along the lines of what we got from them. 

 

Yes!  Time to reverse engineer the Santana trade and break free of the bad juju it created.  Lets see:

 

Humber=Stewart

Mulvey= Gonsalves

Gomez= Kepler (Buxton?  Hicks?  Oh wait.)

Guerra= Balazovic?  Alcala?

 

Do it.

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#10 beckmt

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Posted 22 November 2018 - 10:27 AM

 

Yes!  Time to reverse engineer the Santana trade and break free of the bad juju it created.  Lets see:

 

Humber=Stewart

Mulvey= Gonsalves

Gomez= Kepler (Buxton?  Hicks?  Oh wait.)

Guerra= Balazovic?  Alcala?

 

Do it.

I know the feelings, but Mets will get way more than this from some club. (Houston, NY, maybe the Cubs if they are willing to take Russell).

I might take the gamble and send them Sano (and then make sure I signed Donaldson for a couple to 3 years). Sano + Romero + a lottery ticket is where I would be looking.

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#11 70charger

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Posted 22 November 2018 - 01:54 PM

Yes!  Time to reverse engineer the Santana trade and break free of the bad juju it created.  Lets see:
 
Humber=Stewart
Mulvey= Gonsalves
Gomez= Kepler (Buxton?  Hicks?  Oh wait.)
Guerra= Balazovic?  Alcala?
 
Do it.


Throw in Duensing and you got yourself a deal.
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#12 DrNeau

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Posted 22 November 2018 - 04:01 PM

Rooker (or Sano), Cave, Romero, May and Gordon for Thor? Hell no.
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#13 Physics Guy

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Posted 23 November 2018 - 11:11 PM

Rooker (or Sano), Cave, Romero, May and Gordon for Thor? Hell no.


Rooker (not Sano), Cave, Romero, May and Gordon. Hells yes. Mets say, hell no.
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#14 mike8791

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Posted 24 November 2018 - 08:10 AM

Further down the MLBTR article, Todd hypothesizes that:

 

It stands to reason that the Mets would seek to land assets with at least some amount of control, rather than pure rentals, but also that they’d prefer players that have established themselves to some extent in the major leagues. It’s possible to imagine the club being intrigued by additions behind the plate, in center field, or just about anywhere in the infield. The bullpen is a clear need as well, though it’s tough to see a reliever driving a deal.

 

Of course, we have no idea if he is correct in this assumption, but interestingly, it would appear the Mets are not looking for starting pitching, but a catcher, infielder and outfielder.Admittedly, the Twins are thin in these areas, but as I mentioned in an earlier post, Sano and Kepler must still be viewed as "major leaguers" with good upside potential.Garver more so than Castro, as well.With the emergence of Cave and Kirillof in a year or two, Kepler mustr be viewed as a valuable trade chip, at least by the Twins, if they are going to snag a top starter on the trade market.Likewise, while it would hurt to trade Sano at a low point(but his mental as well as physical makeup just seems too big a risk for the Twins to tolerate much longer)his trade value is certainly higher than any other Twins infielder and thus, might be very attractive to a rebuilding team like the Mets.But this only makes sense if they could acquire a FA like Donaldson.  

 

Doubtful whether the Twins would give up this much and frankly, just as doubtful that these players would maximize value for Thor.For example, the Cubs with Russell, Haap, Schwarber and even Contreras would have a lot better chance than the Twins in landing Thor.All depends on what the Mets are willing to accept here(if they really are serious about trading Thor).

 

The Twins need for a starter to slot in ahead of Berrios is critical if they want to seriously contend in 2019.Because of his age, contract, and performance, there is no one close to Thor who might be available either on the trade or FA market, so a bidding war is almost sure to emerge.Doubtful the Twins could win this one, but I sure would hope they'd be in the discussions.

 

It is likely a more veteran pitcher like Greineke or Baumgartner would be more realistic, just in the return that would be needed, but neither one can be viewed as a long term piece of the Twins' rotation.Here's hoping the FO can land one of these three this offseason, with Thor far and away the gold ring.

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#15 beckmt

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Posted 24 November 2018 - 10:12 AM

I stand by my comment.Thor is an ace and they do not come with three years control very often.Sano + Romero + a third piece or Sano + Gordon + Cave might tempt them enough to do the deal.You need aces to advance in the playoffs.Let's start here.

Twins to get to the next level must take the risk.High risk could very well equal high reward.We could get burned on Sano, that is the risk, but do not view other two suggested pieces and non replaceable.

Edited by beckmt, 24 November 2018 - 10:14 AM.

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#16 jorgenswest

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Posted 24 November 2018 - 10:43 AM

I stand by my comment.Thor is an ace and they do not come with three years control very often.Sano + Romero + a third piece or Sano + Gordon + Cave might tempt them enough to do the deal.You need aces to advance in the playoffs.Let's start here.
Twins to get to the next level must take the risk.High risk could very well equal high reward.We could get burned on Sano, that is the risk, but do not view other two suggested pieces and non replaceable.


Someone will offer an A prospect in the package. If anyone is advocating for Syndegaard they really need to be willing to part with an elite prospect plus others in the package. If the Twins enter this negotiation with untouchables it will be a short phone call.

I would be willing to deal Lewis or Kiriloff. I would be willing to deal anyone on the 40 man roster other than Berrios who has an extra year of control. Kirilloff is close. He might be the guy the Mets would want to headline the deal. If they see him as low level and want an elite prospect ready to go in April, the Twins might not be a good fit. I don’t see them targeting a guy like Rosario who is already in arbitration and has the same amount of control as Syndegaard.
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#17 nicksaviking

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Posted 24 November 2018 - 12:27 PM

I wouldn’t think the Mets would be interested in a package based on Sano’s potential, they’d base his value off of his production. I’d think he’d be a complementary piece only. I’d think the only way the Twins could do anything to provide the Mets what they want is for the Mets to be convinced Kepler is an everyday centerfielder. Even if they thought that though, it’s hard to believe other clubs be couldn’t blow the Twins offer out of the water. I don’t think the Twins have enough controllable MLB ready/experienced bats for their own team let alone to satisfy the Mets demands.
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#18 howieramone2

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Posted 24 November 2018 - 01:11 PM

We have as much young talent as any team in baseball. I would take a shot, if the Met's are doing more than just kicking tires.

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#19 Jham

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Posted 24 November 2018 - 02:33 PM

The Mets would not accept a package without Lewis. And that might not be what they want. His timetable means we have to give up more than other teams. He has been really good, a top prospect, but it's hard to protect him as an elite MLB star at this point, although further development is sure possible. I think they want Romero or gonsalves and Taylor Rodgers or hildenberger too. i'd probably do it out of sheer boredom. But it certainly has the opportunity to backfire.

Of course, why is Syndegaard even for sale unless something's up...
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#20 Doomtints

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Posted 24 November 2018 - 03:04 PM

Syndergaard is injury prone, He is a couple of years behind Yu Darvish but on the same trajectory.

 

The Twins have enough guys whose body parts are in danger of falling off at any moment.

 

The silver lining is he would be cheap (salary-wise) if the Twins want to take the risk. I would say let some other team dole out prospects for a guy who will max out at 120-140 innings/yr until the inevitable 0-60 innings/yr injury event happens (again).

 

The Twins are (re-)building and sending prospects packing for a guy with this profile when there are 6-8 roles to fill doesn't make sense, in my opinion. The Mets don't need to salary dump the guy so the prospect price will be too high for how much risk this would be taking on.

Edited by Doomtints, 24 November 2018 - 03:14 PM.

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