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Article: Gleeman and the Geek: Ep 59: Buying Starting Pitching

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#1 John Bonnes

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Posted 16 September 2012 - 10:58 PM

You can view the page at http://twinsdaily.co...arting-Pitching

#2 Oxtung

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Posted 18 September 2012 - 12:22 AM

I had a whole post typed up being very polite but it didn't post and I lost it. So I'm sorry that this might be a bit blunt.

John, not sure if you'll read this or not, but your premise this podcast, and even a bit last podcast, has been that TR thinks the FA pitching market as a whole is thin. That isn't what Souhan's article says though. According to Souhan Ryan thinks the elite FA pitching market is thin which I don't think anybody would argue with. Here is the direct quote:

Doubts he will pursue any elite free-agent pitchers this winter, saying it will be a "thin" market.....


When a well respected information source, such as yourself and Gleeman, incorrectly paraphrases an article it leads others to think that is what truely happened. This then leads to unwarranted criticism or outright derision towards TR. There are reasons to think that TR won't go out and sign any exciting FA pitchers this year but it isn't because he thinks the market is thin.

#3 freightmaster

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Posted 18 September 2012 - 09:08 AM

I was hoping the above poster was going to comment on your podcast, I dont know what your goals for the podcast are,

I used to enjoy the podcast but now that you are off the radio, you dont seem to take it seriously, one more like the last and I for one will not listen again

#4 John Bonnes

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Posted 18 September 2012 - 09:35 AM

I had a whole post typed up being very polite but it didn't post and I lost it. So I'm sorry that this might be a bit blunt.

John, not sure if you'll read this or not, but your premise this podcast, and even a bit last podcast, has been that TR thinks the FA pitching market as a whole is thin. That isn't what Souhan's article says though. According to Souhan Ryan thinks the elite FA pitching market is thin which I don't think anybody would argue with. Here is the direct quote:

Doubts he will pursue any elite free-agent pitchers this winter, saying it will be a "thin" market.....


When a well respected information source, such as yourself and Gleeman, incorrectly paraphrases an article it leads others to think that is what truely happened. This then leads to unwarranted criticism or outright derision towards TR. There are reasons to think that TR won't go out and sign any exciting FA pitchers this year but it isn't because he thinks the market is thin.


It's a subtle point, but it's hard to say what is being described as "thin" - whether its the elite free-agent pitchers or the whole market. I think we tried to make the point both in this podcast and others that we want had trouble characterizing what Ryan said because "thin" is the only word in quotes, and the subsequent quotes that were released never used that word. So I don't think we were critical of Ryan for that characterization. We were just puzzled by it. I still am, because I don't really understand the context.

#5 John Bonnes

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Posted 18 September 2012 - 09:39 AM

I was hoping the above poster was going to comment on your podcast, I dont know what your goals for the podcast are,

I used to enjoy the podcast but now that you are off the radio, you dont seem to take it seriously, one more like the last and I for one will not listen again


It's definitely less structured than the radio show, but I don't know that it's much different than the "Extra Innings" section that followed it, though maybe you didn't hear that.

If you're attached to a more formal structure, I think you're going to be disappointed in the offseason shows. They are definitely less professional and more like two guys hanging at a bar talking/arguing about their favorite team. Which is, in fact, what is happening. If that doesn't work for you, we understand. Frankly, we have trouble understanding how it works for as many people as it does.

#6 JS

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Posted 18 September 2012 - 11:04 AM

I still like it. Keep up the good "work"!

#7 Shane Wahl

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Posted 18 September 2012 - 11:37 AM

I actually stopped listening shortly into the radio episodes. I like this environment better!

#8 Shane Wahl

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Posted 18 September 2012 - 11:42 AM

Also, a foreward is not enough from Gleeman. He needs to submit a blueprint! He has more GM tendencies than anyone here--and that is saying a lot--but he has never had to put a grand thing out other than nitpicking here and there.

#9 Shane Wahl

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Posted 18 September 2012 - 12:29 PM

I've been jabbering like an assclown for months about Shaun Marcum at 4/$50. Now a 1/$8 million might be much more likely. Paying Marcum to replace Pavano makes a lot of sense to me.

#10 mike wants wins

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Posted 18 September 2012 - 06:41 PM

I like it this way, looser, also. Keep it loose. This is baseball, not life and death.

#11 mike wants wins

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Posted 18 September 2012 - 06:46 PM

The BBC recording of the Hobbit is the best way to listen to the "book". Really, really good. Great if your kids are interested at all.

#12 Oxtung

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Posted 19 September 2012 - 11:18 PM

[quote name='John Bonnes'][quote name='Oxtung']I had a whole post typed up being very polite but it didn't post and I lost it. So I'm sorry that this might be a bit blunt.

John, not sure if you'll read this or not, but your premise this podcast, and even a bit last podcast, has been that TR thinks the FA pitching market as a whole is thin. That isn't what Souhan's article says though. According to Souhan Ryan thinks the elite FA pitching market is thin which I don't think anybody would argue with. Here is the direct quote:

[quote name='Souhan']Doubts he will pursue any elite free-agent pitchers this winter, saying it will be a "thin" market.....[/quote]

When a well respected information source, such as yourself and Gleeman, incorrectly paraphrases an article it leads others to think that is what truely happened. This then leads to unwarranted criticism or outright derision towards TR. There are reasons to think that TR won't go out and sign any exciting FA pitchers this year but it isn't because he thinks the market is thin.[/QUOTE]

It's a subtle point, but it's hard to say what is being described as "thin" - whether its the elite free-agent pitchers or the whole market. I think we tried to make the point both in this podcast and others that we want had trouble characterizing what Ryan said because "thin" is the only word in quotes, and the subsequent quotes that were released never used that word. So I don't think we were critical of Ryan for that characterization. We were just puzzled by it. I still am, because I don't really understand the context.[/QUOTE]

I don't think it's hard to say at all what Souhan is describing. "Elite free-agent pitchers" is the subject of the sentence so "'thin' market" is then describing "Elite free-agent pitchers".

Here is a transcript of the portion of your podcast pertaining to this quote. At roughly 18 min.:

AG: Terry Ryan had made a comment that the free agent starting pitching market was thin and that kind of shocked both of us.

JB: Right.

AG: It's not [thin].

JB: Right.

AG: Our idea was to show that it's not.

JB: We should be careful. We're not exactly sure what Terry Ryan said because the only thing that was said was the word "thin" was in double quotes in the middle of a larger point.

Towards the end of the podcast Gleeman came back with this (roughly 68 min):

AG: We started off saying we were going to talk about [the FA pitching market] because Ryan indicated that it was a thin market and we've named literally 30 guys.
/end


So I think it's clear you were unsure about the quote but I think it's equally clear Aaron thought TR was talking about the starting FA pitching market as a whole and the last comment really reinforces that to your public. This then leads to more antipathy and mistrust of the front office and is incorrectly cited by those who wish to cast aspersion upon Ryan.

#13 Shane Wahl

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Posted 19 September 2012 - 11:49 PM

Really, Oxtung? The Souhan article about this is totally poor journalism in the first place. Ryan apparently said "elite" but who knows what he means by that?

#14 Oxtung

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Posted 20 September 2012 - 12:47 AM

Really, Oxtung? The Souhan article about this is totally poor journalism in the first place. Ryan apparently said "elite" but who knows what he means by that?


I'm not arguing that it was or was not poor journalism and certainly elite, like most adjectives, is subjective, but unless you think all the pitchers in the FA class are "elite" Terry Ryan was not calling the whole class "thin". Personally I think the statement makes sense logically. There is really only 1 elite pitcher in the market anymore. I would call that "thin".