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Article: Rundown: Judy From Big Lake, Baldelli-Buxton Meeting and More

byron buxton miguel sano willians astudillo brian dozier j.a. happ
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#21 Mike Sixel

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Posted 20 November 2018 - 03:41 PM

 

We could go after Donaldson but there simply are not real good MI or 1B options that can be bought. 

 

Free agent SP has not been a good bet either. There were several 5+ year contracts in 2016. None of them have been good and now we are going into the years likely to be even less productive. 

 

Price / Age 30 / 7-217 / 4.5 / 1.6 / 2.7 for a total WAR of 8.8 and which is $10.23M/WAR

 

Greinke / Age 32 / 6-206.5 / 2.2 / 5.1 / 3.5 for a total 10.8 which is $9.72M/WAR

 

Cueto / Age 30 / 6/130 / 5.5 / 1.2 / .2 for a total of 6.9 WAR which is $12.6M/WAR

 

Zimmerman / Age 30 / 1.3 / 1.0 .9 for a total of3.2 which is $18.75M/WAR

 

Samardzia / Age 30 / 5-90 / 2.6 / 3.8 / -.2 for a total of 6.2 which is $8.7M/WAR

 

Wei-Yin Chen / Age 31 / 5-80 / .9 / .5 / 1.2 for a total of 2.6 which is $11.8M/WAR

 

Leake / Age 28 / 5-80 /2.5 / 3.2 / 2.3 for a total of 8 which is $5.5M WAR

 

Kennedy / Age 31 / 5-70 / 1.6 / -.2 / 1.0 for a total of 2.4 which is $15.4M/WAR

 

it is certainly possible they are bad bets.....but how has relying on the farm system worked out? Worse results, I'd argue. It's kind of like when you read how RPs are a bad FA investment, w/o anyone ever contemplating how bad those results would be with the next AAA pitcher coming up and taking innings.....If we care more about efficiency than effectiveness, it's hard to see them ever going in on a legit FA signing that changes the team in any meaningful way, without major luck. 

I remain hopeful on Buxton and Sano.....but I'd not bet the franchise on them.


#22 ND-Fan

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Posted 20 November 2018 - 03:44 PM

I am not on Pohlad side of this thing but i watched this team for better than 50 years and one truth i have seen in baseball very rarely does ownership gets cut first. We have seen GM's come and go over the years

but we still have basic philosophy this team no money is going to come out of ownership return its just a fact. Now if I was owner like Pohlad's having billions of dollars already I would want my sports franchise to win even if I were in break even position. The reason I would have for this I would love to give my community the feeling of winning and beside that local fans would remember you as one that gave them that feeling. To be remember so positively by people would out weigh amount of money that you died with.

Like I said you would be remember by people long after your dead. That is why I will never have kind of money the Pohlad's have. I think George Steinbrenner kind of knew this just he had nasty way of getting to winning but he knew he would be remember more winning with his club than all money he had.

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#23 beckmt

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Posted 20 November 2018 - 04:22 PM

Problem is for mid and small market teams, the window is much tighter.Big market teams can spend their way through problems, if they do not create so many payroll issues to be in luxury tax hell.Rest of the teams have to work hard, develop their players and get creative and lucky in roster makeup.

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#24 birdwatcher

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Posted 20 November 2018 - 04:23 PM

 

 

Here’s what Pohlad said regarding Joe Mauer’s contract coming off the books: “It’s not like ‘OK, we’ve got this money now, and we didn’t have it before, so we can do so much more. I don’t feel that way.”
 

 

He continues to make stupid statements like this. Makes it very hard to continue to be a fan of his ballclub. 

 

 

 

Jim Pohlad is a public relations nightmare. He's so out of touch with how his answer might be perceived. To keep our sanity we should probably be mindful that when any of the Pohlad Company businesses experience fundamental changes in revenues or costs, they respond to the changes differently than all of us are thinking in terms of a simple "found money" thing with contracts coming off the books. He isn't capable of adapting the way he thinks and speaks to reflect the fans' viewpoint, so he's a smart guy who can say "stupid" things. I'll wait to see what happens myself. But I don't dismiss the possibility that he'll reverse course here and tighten the pursestrings. So frustrating.

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#25 nicksaviking

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Posted 20 November 2018 - 04:25 PM

 

it is certainly possible they are bad bets.....but how has relying on the farm system worked out? Worse results, I'd argue. It's kind of like when you read how RPs are a bad FA investment, w/o anyone ever contemplating how bad those results would be with the next AAA pitcher coming up and taking innings.....If we care more about efficiency than effectiveness, it's hard to see them ever going in on a legit FA signing that changes the team in any meaningful way, without major luck. 

 

How can anyone look at most of the league's elite teams like Houston, Boston, Cleveland , the Yankees or the Dodgers and think that relying on the farm system hasn't worked out?

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#26 Mike Sixel

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Posted 20 November 2018 - 04:28 PM

 

How can anyone look at most of the league's elite teams like Houston, Boston, Cleveland , the Yankees or the Dodgers and think that relying on the farm system hasn't worked out?

 

I was talking about MN.......of course you need to develop players, but you also need to sign FAs and make trades for long term assets, not just rentals, and not just 1 year deals. 

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I remain hopeful on Buxton and Sano.....but I'd not bet the franchise on them.


#27 howieramone2

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Posted 20 November 2018 - 05:18 PM

 

 

Here’s what Pohlad said regarding Joe Mauer’s contract coming off the books: “It’s not like ‘OK, we’ve got this money now, and we didn’t have it before, so we can do so much more. I don’t feel that way.”
 

 

He continues to make stupid statements like this. Makes it very hard to continue to be a fan of his ballclub. 

 

TR said on numerous occasions, anytime he went to the Pohlads with a request he always got it. For those who don't know, we got Sano because we were the only team that would take him, not knowing exactly how old he was at the time. The Pohlads are basically absentee owners. It could be worse.

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#28 howieramone2

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Posted 20 November 2018 - 05:22 PM

 

Baldelli and company are going to need to find a way to get more out his players than what Molitor did from the sound of it. Reinforcements do not appear imminent. 

 

I am a believer that managerial changes can have significant positive yet intangible impacts, so I don't think better baseball is out of the question by any means.

We had the most active off-season in franchise history last year. I expect more of the same. 

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#29 Craig Arko

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Posted 20 November 2018 - 05:32 PM

Perhaps contraction is still a viable plan.
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#30 Platoon

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Posted 20 November 2018 - 06:02 PM

People in sports sure know how to spin the word 'rebuilding' into a positive these days... If they're not competing for a playoff spot, they're rebuilding.
Evidently now the Twins are 'building' and the Gophers football team is in 'Year 1 of building.' So positive!

They are putting a 20x20 addition on the water treatment plant in the town in which I reside. They finally got the side walls up and the structural roof beams in place this week. No roof! No floor! No doors! No heat! This is the result of about 4 months of labor. Sadly, having watched the Goopher FB this year, the construction guys are having a more productive year than our striped rodents! ROW THE BOAT!

Edited by Platoon, 20 November 2018 - 06:03 PM.

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#31 Riverbrian

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Posted 20 November 2018 - 06:08 PM

 

How can anyone look at most of the league's elite teams like Houston, Boston, Cleveland , the Yankees or the Dodgers and think that relying on the farm system hasn't worked out?

 

Yeah... That's the real sad part to me. It isn't the money the big boys are spending... it's the players they are developing and acquiring with that development. 

 

This is where they are kicking our butts. Yeah, they can comfortably eat a Matt Kemp contract if they want and still operate full speed ahead... but do they have to have the Bellingers, Seagers and Buehlers too? Why can't we have some of those guys? Do they have to find Max Muncy, Kike Hernandez, Chris Taylor and Justin Turner off the scrap heap and get Bellinger, Seager, Buehler plus have the money to eat a Matt Kemp contract. 

 

When I say where are our superstars... This is what I mean and it has nothing to do with money.:)

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#32 Major League Ready

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Posted 20 November 2018 - 06:36 PM

 

I was talking about MN.......of course you need to develop players, but you also need to sign FAs and make trades for long term assets, not just rentals, and not just 1 year deals. 

 

Even the largest markets have recognized the need to build from the farm system and develop players. The fact the Twins have not done a good job of this has absolutely nothing to do with if it is the solution. Do you realize you are suggesting we pursue less effective practices because we did a poor job executing fundamentally better practices. How about if we get better at the most effective practices.


#33 USAFChief

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Posted 20 November 2018 - 06:54 PM

How can anyone look at most of the league's elite teams like Houston, Boston, Cleveland , the Yankees or the Dodgers and think that relying on the farm system hasn't worked out?

None of those rely solely on the farm system.

All of them take what they can get from the farm, gladly, and then find whatever else they need. They don’t wait until they’re “one player away,” they don’t make excuses about how hard it is, how expensive it is, how inefficient it is.

The idea the Twins can rely on the farm system is wishful thinking. Nobody does.
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#34 USAFChief

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Posted 20 November 2018 - 06:56 PM

Even the largest markets have recognized the need to build from the farm system and develop players. The fact the Twins have not done a good job of this has absolutely nothing to do with if it is the solution. Do you realize you are suggesting we pursue less effective practices because we did a poor job executing fundamentally better practices. How about if we get better at the most effective practices.


We need to get better at all methods of player acquisition. Trades, draft, develop, international talent, and yes, the entire range of free agents, from bargain basement finds to top of the line proven talent.
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#35 mikelink45

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Posted 20 November 2018 - 07:50 PM

This is depressing.I guess my Thanksgiving paper on what I am most thankful for will not be Pohlad, Levine, Falvey, the Twins...Way to be a Grinch.I want to hear that we are going to be smart and we are going to compete..In fact, if we take the goofy money that Machado and Harper will get and invest it in a lot of secondary FAs we will compete and we will be better.  

 

The Yankees moved on Paxton - I would have offered Sano and hope that they read all his early press clippings.  

 

This is a terrible situation - not tanking, not winning, what are we doing?Oh ya - we are hiring new coaches.Big deal.Is there any evidence that coaches really make that difference in MLB?

 

Thank you Judy, at least one person is refreshing and honest in this winter of our discontent.

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#36 Mike Sixel

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Posted 20 November 2018 - 08:48 PM

 

Even the largest markets have recognized the need to build from the farm system and develop players. The fact the Twins have not done a good job of this has absolutely nothing to do with if it is the solution. Do you realize you are suggesting we pursue less effective practices because we did a poor job executing fundamentally better practices. How about if we get better at the most effective practices.

 

how about both? I don't think anyone, here or anywhere, has said don't improve drafting and developing players. No one. Not one person. I don't even know why we are having this conversation, of course they can't afford Tyler Jay and Kohl Stewart type outcomes any more. That's pretty much assumed, and has nothing to do with signing FAs or trading for players (either direction, acquiring minor or major league talent). If we want, we can start a thread about improving drafting.....and developing....and coaching.

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I remain hopeful on Buxton and Sano.....but I'd not bet the franchise on them.


#37 Sconnie

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Posted 20 November 2018 - 11:07 PM

OK, we know the Pohlad's are crap owners. We've always known that. And Falvey and Levine know it too.

Last year, Levine made comments about not being a high-payroll team. Falvey came from Cleveland and saw how the teams were built up without using free agency. These two guys understand the issue and they've both accepted it. It's an open question as to whether they can create something like Terry Ryan managed but I'm not quite ready to give up on them. Yet. But I think we'll have to see some smart trades rather than hope for high priced talent coming in. I'm not going to dump on Levine for his comments about building. It is what it is.

we’re in an 8 year rebuild with no end in site. True, Falvey and Levine were hired because year 6 wasn’t any better than year 1 under TR, but that shouldn’t give the FO license to shoot for the decade.

#38 nicksaviking

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Posted 20 November 2018 - 11:53 PM

None of those rely solely on the farm system.
All of them take what they can get from the farm, gladly, and then find whatever else they need. They don’t wait until they’re “one player away,” they don’t make excuses about how hard it is, how expensive it is, how inefficient it is.
The idea the Twins can rely on the farm system is wishful thinking. Nobody does.


Sale, Verlander, Stanton, and Andrew Miller were all acquired when those clubs were front runners, not when those clubs were wallowing in disappointment as we currently find the Twins.
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#39 DocBauer

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Posted 21 November 2018 - 12:44 AM

Just a few comments to toss out:

1] "Building" IS different than "re-building". And this differential is not just semantics. It's what the new FO talked about from the day they were hired. Yes, maybe they were handcuffed initially by keeping Molitor. But they have not only made changes in FO and milb personnel, but they have also replaced Molitor and most of the previous on the field staff. They have had a couple of good to excellent drafts, and have played with finances to obtain players, have eaten portions of contracts, made smart FA signings that didn't work out the way anyone wanted, and then spun those players to acquire additional prospects/players, (though I'm still upset about Escobar and Pressly).

They HAVE been aggressive in many areas, and thus far, continue to be so. While we may not like every move made, they are not laid back in comfy seats. So I feel "building" is pretty darn accurate.

2] Pohlad may be very, very intelligent. But he is also a very, very poor public speaker. At least off the cuff. The Twins FO didn't sign FA to have a record payroll in 2018 without approval from ownership. But if you have something to say in regard to Mauer's contract being off tbe books...along with others...that you don't feel the $25M is just there to spend because you are looking at extensions, future contracts, the RIGHT FA, a possible BIG mid season trade, etc, then just say so! If you truly believe in the players on hand, the players coming up, and the intelligence in your FO to build the team, then say so! If you can't do that, then get someone to write your material or stay away from public settings.

3] Baldelli is going to meet with Buxton. Tremendous! He should! Where is special consultant Hunter in this. He has nothing to offer?

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#40 Jacksson

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Posted 21 November 2018 - 12:46 AM

Can't wait to get food at the new Bald Deli.
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