Jump to content

Providing independent coverage of the Minnesota Twins.
Subscribe to Twins Daily Email
Photo

Article: Twins Add Gordon, Wade, Arraez To 40-Man Roster

nick gordon lamonte wade luis arraez tyler jay jake reed.
  • Please log in to reply
113 replies to this topic

#81 rdehring

rdehring

    Chattanooga Lookouts

  • Members
  • 766 posts

Posted 21 November 2018 - 05:53 AM

 

I'm glad Arraez was protected. I get he's probably ONLY a 2B. And I know Polanco will probably slide to 2B this next season or in the next couple. And I also get it may have been bard for someone to stash Arraez. But even if the Twins sign a quality infielder, which they HAVE TO DO, you need depth. This kid has an undeniable hit tool. We are hurting for depth at the upper levels. I think this was smart.

Or Arraez will hit .350 the first month at AA, then .350 at Rochester for a couple months before moving up to the Twins where he will do the same.  

 

Yes that comment is unlikely.Or is it?This kid has hit well over .300 at every stop he has been at.

 

As for all the pitchers that weren't added, the Twins must feel that none of them are better than the 10 prospects they already had on the roster...now 9 with Busenitz gone.

  • caninatl04 likes this

#82 Han Joelo

Han Joelo

    Senior Member

  • Members
  • 1,451 posts

Posted 21 November 2018 - 07:46 AM

I'm glad they protected Arraez.  I'd have hated having to read the stories about the Twins finally paying their karmic debt for nabbing Santana in the rule V.

 

The Rule V draft seems to be happening already, and instead of $100,000, the best(?) prospects will cost you a different, marginal, non-40 man prospect.  And save you the 25 man roster juggle.  Glad Busenitz and Anderson have found semi-stable spots where they'll get a chance to put some money in the bank for a while.

  • beckmt and SF Twins Fan like this

#83 Doctor Wu

Doctor Wu

    Chattanooga Lookouts

  • Members
  • 556 posts

Posted 21 November 2018 - 08:05 AM

 

gotta concur here. This team is where it is because they have utterly failed at picking high with those two picks. Not just a small fail, but complete so far. Maybe Stewart bounce back....but Jay will be claimed and they will have bupkiss to show for the 6th overall pick just a few years ago. 

Just gotta say I love that word "bupkiss" that you used. That made me smile. Thank you!


#84 Doctor Wu

Doctor Wu

    Chattanooga Lookouts

  • Members
  • 556 posts

Posted 21 November 2018 - 08:18 AM

 

In yet more former Twins 40-man issues...another long-time Twin is available again

 

MLBTR: Cubs Outright Johnny Field, Jerry Vasto

Long-time Twin? He was more of a "blink and you missed him Twin" !!!

  • gunnarthor likes this

#85 SomeGuy

SomeGuy

    Elizabethton

  • Members
  • 47 posts

Posted 21 November 2018 - 08:58 AM

 

Add

Harrison Bader
Paul DeJong
Ian Happ
David Fletcher

 

And the fact that all but Swanson and Bregman were picked up after Jay and makes that pick pretty bad.

 

Need to mention that several of the first round picks who did not make it to the majors are high schoolers, including Brendan Rodgers #15 overall prospect at MLB.com, for whom it is tough to make it to the majors 3 years after drafted

 

The Twins' drafts have been pathetic.Another data point: only Gibson is still with the team from the players who were drafted before 2012. That speaks tons.

 

How many of those players lost a year to injury?I'm not trying to defend Jay as the next big thing, because he is not.Just saying it was not a "shameful pick."Saying that 8 players from the first round are playing right now doesn't mean all other picks are busts.

 

You're forgetting Eddie Rosario from the 2010 draft. 

 

Added data point: Bill Smith was GM for 2008 to 2011 drafts.He was terrible.He in no way reflects the generally decent drafter that was Terry Ryan or the new front office that I think had 2 amazing drafts.

 

 

Edited by SomeGuy, 21 November 2018 - 09:07 AM.

  • beckmt and caninatl04 like this

#86 diehardtwinsfan

diehardtwinsfan

    G.O.A.T.

  • Twins Mods
  • 12,624 posts
  • Locationthe charred ruins of BYTO

Posted 21 November 2018 - 09:32 AM

 

Nick Anderson traded to the Marlins for infielder Brian Schales.

This is the kind of thing that I'm glad we are starting to see. May end up being nothing, but if the Twins are pretty convinced Anderson won't be that pen guy we want, then get something for him. 

  • birdwatcher, nicksaviking, Sconnie and 2 others like this

#87 LimestoneBaggy

LimestoneBaggy

    Self-Appointed, Chief Executive Twins Daily Lurker

  • Members
  • 375 posts

Posted 21 November 2018 - 09:53 AM

I don't know why, but I keep coming back to Arraez=Yangervis Solarte.

 

 

  • jorgenswest and birdwatcher like this

"I lurk so hard, you thought I was a DJ." Limestone Baggy

 

"In order to have a testimony, you have to have a test." Teddy Bridgewater


#88 birdwatcher

birdwatcher

    Senior Member

  • Members
  • 3,627 posts

Posted 21 November 2018 - 10:04 AM

 

 perhaps... but it wasn't like that one surprised the pundits. Most mocks had him going in the top 10.

 

 

It's hard to argue that Jay wasn't a mistake pick. It's also hard to argue that the pundits weren't too high on him, although his injury history explains some of his struggles. 

 

But people don't place his selection into context either. Right now, 28 of the first 42 selections have not played MLB. Only 5 of the 42 have generated positive WAR so far. Benintendi and Buehler were both available, so yes, drafting either of those two at #7 or #24 would have been huge.

 

But that's the nature of the draft. All teams have their occasional misfires, every one of them. Not an excuse, just an attempt to temper the criticism a bit. All teams miss on winners, all teams have prospects who fail them through no real fault of their own, and all teams over-estimate a ceiling or take a risk that backfires every once in awhile.

 

I seem to remember comments about the Gibson selection at #22. The pundits had his ceiling, at best, as a #2, and some thought he was too safe of a pick. An example of the inept Twins picking a high floor guy instead of going for the marbles. Many people were castigating the Twins about his selection up until about a year or so ago. Some might still, despite the fact that only 4 of the 21 players selected ahead of Gibson (9.4) have generated as much WAR and two of those guys, Mike Minor (10.4) and Mike Leake (15.6), might have lower trade value than Gibson and could conceivably be passed by him in terms of WAR before it's all over.

 

So personally, I'm not terribly distraught that Jay has been left unprotected. At least he's still in the hunt.

Edited by birdwatcher, 21 November 2018 - 10:20 AM.

  • Han Joelo and Original Whizzinator like this

#89 birdwatcher

birdwatcher

    Senior Member

  • Members
  • 3,627 posts

Posted 21 November 2018 - 10:06 AM

 

This is the kind of thing that I'm glad we are starting to see. May end up being nothing, but if the Twins are pretty convinced Anderson won't be that pen guy we want, then get something for him. 

 

 

Bingo. That was part of my biggest complaint about Ryan, not actively managing the player assets.

  • Riverbrian and Original Whizzinator like this

#90 Han Joelo

Han Joelo

    Senior Member

  • Members
  • 1,451 posts

Posted 21 November 2018 - 10:26 AM

I've defended the Jay pick plenty, and would continue to from a theoretical standpoint.

 

On the other hand, it was ultimately a big fail.  And heads rolled.  And now the new guys are ready to move on.  As am I.  Which likely won't even happen--Jay will remain a Twins farmhand.

 

Instead, take a look at the 2016 draft.Are any of those guys taken before AK ranked higher than he is now?  I'm thinking not.  Of course, at least on MLB.com, Forrest Whitley, taken two picks later, is ranked higher...

  • birdwatcher and Dman like this

#91 birdwatcher

birdwatcher

    Senior Member

  • Members
  • 3,627 posts

Posted 21 November 2018 - 10:27 AM

 

Not worthy of being taken isn't exactly high praise.......when other players drafted those years are starring in the majors.....

 

 

You make it sound like there's a whole slew of players from that draft starring in the majors when in fact only two players selected after Jay can be described as such. Two out of 36, mind you.

  • RaymondLuxuryYacht likes this

#92 Vanimal46

Vanimal46

    Opener Poster

  • Members
  • 10,969 posts
  • LocationAustin, TX

Posted 21 November 2018 - 10:53 AM

I've defended the Jay pick plenty, and would continue to from a theoretical standpoint.

On the other hand, it was ultimately a big fail. And heads rolled. And now the new guys are ready to move on. As am I. Which likely won't even happen--Jay will remain a Twins farmhand.

Instead, take a look at the 2016 draft. Are any of those guys taken before AK ranked higher than he is now? I'm thinking not. Of course, at least on MLB.com, Forrest Whitley, taken two picks later, is ranked higher...


The Kirilloff pick looks really good right now. Still a long ways to go with him. I wish he got his feet wet in AA for the last month of the season. He was making a mockery of A ball. The real test will be mastering AA... If he's just as good after a few months I'll be beating the drum to call him up directly from AA.
  • Han Joelo, birdwatcher, gunnarthor and 2 others like this

#93 ChrisKnutson

ChrisKnutson

    Junior Member

  • Members
  • 311 posts

Posted 21 November 2018 - 02:26 PM

Loving the youth that’s on the 40 man roster right now, but I’d still like to see someone else in Granite, Grossman, Slegers’ roster spots by the start of ST.
  • caninatl04 and Original Whizzinator like this

#94 Han Joelo

Han Joelo

    Senior Member

  • Members
  • 1,451 posts

Posted 21 November 2018 - 04:13 PM

I'm torn on what thread to make this comment in.  Though he is an ex-Twin, he's inextricably linked to Busenitz, who was a part of this thread, so...anyway...Alex Meyer DFA'd.

 

https://www.mlbtrade...assignment.html

  • PseudoSABR likes this

#95 IndianaTwin

IndianaTwin

    Junior Member

  • Members
  • 702 posts

Posted 21 November 2018 - 07:10 PM

 

I've defended the Jay pick plenty, and would continue to from a theoretical standpoint.

 

On the other hand, it was ultimately a big fail.  And heads rolled.  And now the new guys are ready to move on.  As am I.  Which likely won't even happen--Jay will remain a Twins farmhand.

 

Instead, take a look at the 2016 draft.Are any of those guys taken before AK ranked higher than he is now?  I'm thinking not.  Of course, at least on MLB.com, Forrest Whitley, taken two picks later, is ranked higher...

 

Also, Nick Senzel. 

 

  • Han Joelo and birdwatcher like this

#96 Han Joelo

Han Joelo

    Senior Member

  • Members
  • 1,451 posts

Posted 21 November 2018 - 08:08 PM

 

Also, Nick Senzel. 

Derp.  True enough.  But the point still mostly stands.  Whatever the point was.

  • ashburyjohn, birdwatcher and IndianaTwin like this

#97 Riverbrian

Riverbrian

    Goofy Moderator

  • Twins Mods
  • 19,959 posts
  • LocationGrand Forks, ND

Posted 21 November 2018 - 10:31 PM

 

For $100,000 it's foolish not to take a rule 5 player. I haven't looked lately, but at one time Haley was on the best team in baseball. With us he was on the DL twice and couldn't seem to stay healthy. Injuries are part of the game, but the pick was a good one.

 

100 Grand is nothing. The roster spot that he occupies on the other hand is extremely important. 

 

 

A Skeleton walks into a bar and says... "Give me a beer... And a mop".

 

President of the "Baseball Player Positional Flexibility" Club 

Founded 4-23-16 

 

Strike Zone Automation Advocate

 

I'm not a starting 9 guy!!!


#98 Riverbrian

Riverbrian

    Goofy Moderator

  • Twins Mods
  • 19,959 posts
  • LocationGrand Forks, ND

Posted 21 November 2018 - 10:37 PM

 

$100k seems cheap, but in modern Rule 5, you're not buying much. Take a look at the recent results:

https://en.m.wikiped...5_draft_results

The last couple years, it's like maybe 1 useful guy out of 18 picks.

By comparison, there are quite a few far more successful/valuable guys signed on minor league deals every year -- like Brandon Morrow for the Dodgers a couple years ago, Kintzler for the Twins, etc. Dereck Rodriguez, even. And those guys actually cost LESS than $100k (not to mention not requiring a 25 man roster spot). You'd probably be better off trying to identify those guys and enticing them to sign with the roster spot you would have used on a Rule 5 pick instead.

It comes down to, what's the best 40-man I can assemble in the offseason? And what's the best 25-man I can field to start the season? Talent can be scarce, but not so scarce that Rule 5 picks need to be part of those roster equations, at the low odds of recent Rule 5 results. There's enough potential/talent available, in free agency, trades, etc., that it's easy to see why it's preferable for most teams to opt against drafting/rostering Rule 5 guys.

 

In my opinion... You crushed it with this post. 

 

Well done! 

  • birdwatcher and Dman like this

A Skeleton walks into a bar and says... "Give me a beer... And a mop".

 

President of the "Baseball Player Positional Flexibility" Club 

Founded 4-23-16 

 

Strike Zone Automation Advocate

 

I'm not a starting 9 guy!!!


#99 Riverbrian

Riverbrian

    Goofy Moderator

  • Twins Mods
  • 19,959 posts
  • LocationGrand Forks, ND

Posted 21 November 2018 - 11:34 PM

 

I just think there's no risk... Take a guy, and give him back... or turn him into Ryan Pressly. Either way I just mainly think it's silly to think that the team should just never take that option, whether they are a contender or not. 

 

He's got to be able to contribute immediately... If you got that rare rule 5 guy who can contribute immediately... OK... by all means grab him. The Phillies didn't hide Odubel Herrera. The Rangers didn't hide Darren O' Day. 

 

As it stands today, you can't afford to hide a guy anymore unless you are in a rebuild with absolutely no expectation. Contending teams can't give up the roster spot.

 

And... even if you are in a rebuild, the concept of hiding a guy, burning a roster spot with limited and or toxic production is going to actually slow down your rebuild because that roster spot could be used to audition a guy who is closer to proving himself as future value and those guys become actual value at a much higher frequency than the rule 5 guy does. 

 

We learned nothing from 3.1 Innings of Tyler Kinley. We grabbed him... Molitor didn't play him and we cut players who landed on other major league rosters for the privilage. 

 

There is plenty of risk. 

  • diehardtwinsfan, Dman, KirbyDome89 and 2 others like this

A Skeleton walks into a bar and says... "Give me a beer... And a mop".

 

President of the "Baseball Player Positional Flexibility" Club 

Founded 4-23-16 

 

Strike Zone Automation Advocate

 

I'm not a starting 9 guy!!!


#100 Riverbrian

Riverbrian

    Goofy Moderator

  • Twins Mods
  • 19,959 posts
  • LocationGrand Forks, ND

Posted 21 November 2018 - 11:47 PM

 

You make it sound like there's a whole slew of players from that draft starring in the majors when in fact only two players selected after Jay can be described as such. Two out of 36, mind you.

 

I don't blame the Twins for missing on Tyler Jay. When you consider how many teams have missed over the years, I would be very uncomfortable blaming the Twins for this single draft pick. 

 

However... When I add Tyler Jay to every 1st round pick we've had since 2005 and the hind sight results that we can all see. I then start feeling comfortable blaming the Twins.:)

  • Dman, DocBauer and KirbyDome89 like this

A Skeleton walks into a bar and says... "Give me a beer... And a mop".

 

President of the "Baseball Player Positional Flexibility" Club 

Founded 4-23-16 

 

Strike Zone Automation Advocate

 

I'm not a starting 9 guy!!!




Also tagged with one or more of these keywords: nick gordon, lamonte wade, luis arraez, tyler jay, jake reed.