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Article: Believe in Byron Buxton

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#41 Nick Nelson

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Posted 09 November 2018 - 11:24 AM

 

You're ignoring that players are no longer doing this.......they just aren't. You can project how you'd feel all you want, but just look at the last three or four years. 

 

30/31 and older is now prime? On a site where people say all the time NOT to sign guys into their mid-30s, now it is a good idea? I'm confused by that sentence. In a league that is getting younger and younger? I don't see that.

What do other players have to do with Buxton? His circumstances are special and unique, creating perfect conditions for a deal that makes sense both ways. Very few position players with his ability have as much motivation to lock up financial security at this stage. 

 

Also, I don't recall saying anything about signing Buxton into his mid-30s being a "good idea." I said if he hits the market at age 30/31 as a star-caliber player, he'll have no trouble landing another large contract. You're the one talking about market precedent; that happens with numerous players every single offseason.

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#42 Nick Nelson

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Posted 09 November 2018 - 11:29 AM

 

I'm far more worried about Buxton's future than Sano's right now. 

This is hard for me to fathom. Buxton's floor is basically a solid regular with elite defensive value and minimal offensive contribution. Sano's floor is... I dunno. Chris Carter? Worse? He has nothing to fall back on if he's not an outstanding hitter. Furthermore, only one of those guys has ever given any reason to question his drive, focus and commitment. 

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#43 Kelly Vance

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Posted 09 November 2018 - 11:40 AM

Buck is a stud. The best defender in all of baseball at any position.  Steals 29 bases in 30 attempts and the time he was out he over slid. With his speed, if he batted left and drag bunted he would likely cross first base before the fielder even reached the ball.

 

But in terms of hitting.  He found it in 2017. He was hot and all star caliber for several months.  He lost it again last year, but he had health issues. I bet he finds it again. 

 

Anybody willing to throw Buck and Miggie out with the bath water don't know what value is. These are potential all starts that played hurt last year. But I want those critics in my fantasy league. They would hand over good players for a handful of magic beans. 

 

These are young talents that need good coaching. You gotta rub the lamp to make the Genie appear. 

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#44 Sconnie

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Posted 09 November 2018 - 11:50 AM

I think Buxton could be a superstar for someone else.

If this was even a remote possibility why would Falvey screw around with arbitration timeline/eligibility? The value in an extended arbitration eligibility comes in lower contract, or return on trade. It might have been easier to negotiate a lower extension value after the team proposal being chosen by the Arbiter, and Buxton wouldn’t feel screwed by the Twins.

50 mil can fix a lot of things, but is trust one of them? If this is the plan now, why wasn’t it the plan in September? If it was the plan in Sept, why not bring him up to work with Rowson on the side and collect his two weeks?

My guess is, the plan was to extend him or trade him, when extension talks failed, Falvey went down the trade route in August.
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#45 IndianaTwin

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Posted 09 November 2018 - 12:00 PM

 

I've been teaching junior high for 25 years.I'm nothing if not patient.By all accounts, Buxton is a tireless worker.Be patient folks.Baseball is a hard game.Some just make it look easy, that's why they are superstars.

 

You get a "like" from me just for teaching junior high for 25 years. It didn't matter what you said after that.

 

But I do agree with you on that part too. 

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#46 Doomtints

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Posted 09 November 2018 - 12:08 PM

Buxton's 2018 performance would be career ending for 95% of baseball players.We have to keep that in perspective.

 

I still believe he can be a good player, but another year like this one and he's done. Another below average year and it's time to adjust our expectations.


#47 nicksaviking

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Posted 09 November 2018 - 12:16 PM

 

This is hard for me to fathom. Buxton's floor is basically a solid regular with elite defensive value and minimal offensive contribution. Sano's floor is... I dunno. Chris Carter? Worse? He has nothing to fall back on if he's not an outstanding hitter. Furthermore, only one of those guys has ever given any reason to question his drive, focus and commitment. 

 

I'm still hopeful for both, but isn't Buxton's floor considerably lower than solid regular? Wouldn't his floor be what we've seen most of the past four seasons? I wouldn't say that's a solid regular. 

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#48 Mr. Brooks

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Posted 09 November 2018 - 12:20 PM

I think Buxton could be a superstar for someone else.

If this was even a remote possibility why would Falvey screw around with arbitration timeline/eligibility? The value in an extended arbitration eligibility comes in lower contract, or return on trade. It might have been easier to negotiate a lower extension value after the team proposal being chosen by the Arbiter, and Buxton wouldn’t feel screwed by the Twins.

50 mil can fix a lot of things, but is trust one of them? If this is the plan now, why wasn’t it the plan in September? If it was the plan in Sept, why not bring him up to work with Rowson on the side and collect his two weeks?

My guess is, the plan was to extend him or trade him, when extension talks failed, Falvey went down the trade route in August.


They sent him down to get an extra year of service time, not for arbitration reasons.
That says they do believe in his potential. Otherwise, why would they want that extra year?
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#49 joefish

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Posted 09 November 2018 - 12:21 PM

Hicks a superstar? I dont think so.

#50 Doomtints

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Posted 09 November 2018 - 12:23 PM

Buxton's floor is off the Twins in a year and out of baseball in two or three.


#51 USAFChief

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Posted 09 November 2018 - 12:25 PM

 

Buxton's floor is off the Twins in a year and out of baseball in two or three.

Unless there's additional, major injury...or Buxton quits...there is zero chance he's out of baseball in 2 or 3 years. He'll have a job in AAA, at a minimum, for at least another half decade.

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#52 Nick Nelson

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Posted 09 November 2018 - 12:26 PM

 

Hicks a superstar? I dont think so.

He tied for the 10th best WAR among AL hitters this year, and led a team that won 100 games. 

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#53 Doomtints

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Posted 09 November 2018 - 12:29 PM

 

Unless there's additional, major injury...or Buxton quits...there is zero chance he's out of baseball in 2 or 3 years. He'll have a job in AAA, at a minimum, for at least another half decade.

 

Yes. That's not his "floor" though. I would say this scenario is more probable than his "floor" which is what I mentioned.

 

As you say, he could be an AAAA-level guy who gets called up as a short term defensive injury replacement for some team (probably not the Twins), but not if he continues his 5 OPS+ trend.

Edited by Doomtints, 09 November 2018 - 12:31 PM.

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#54 Thrylos

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Posted 09 November 2018 - 12:34 PM

 

 Buxton's floor is basically a solid regular with elite defensive value and minimal offensive contribution.

 

If that is his floor, he spent last season in the basement. 

 

Nothing "solid" about last season.

Edited by Thrylos, 09 November 2018 - 12:35 PM.

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#55 MileHighTwinsFan

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Posted 09 November 2018 - 12:52 PM

 

I remain convinced that the single, biggest difference between the Twins being legitimate contenders and rebuilding is Byron Buxton, because of the difference he makes on defense. And when his bat is going well he scares the hell out of teams because of his speed. 

 

So I'd be OK with an extension. Not my money. 

 

Completely agree.If the Twins are going to make a championship run in the foreseeable future, it is going to be because Byron Buxton is owning centerfield and the basepaths. The alternative is mediocrity. 

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#56 Danchat

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Posted 09 November 2018 - 01:02 PM

This is hard for me to fathom. Buxton's floor is basically a solid regular with elite defensive value and minimal offensive contribution. Sano's floor is... I dunno. Chris Carter? Worse? He has nothing to fall back on if he's not an outstanding hitter. Furthermore, only one of those guys has ever given any reason to question his drive, focus and commitment.

Buxton’s floor is being constantly injured and hitting .170 which is a pretty low floor even with the defense he brings.
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#57 adorduan

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Posted 09 November 2018 - 01:08 PM

So, this $50 million dollar extension, what exactly does it look like? I need some details....


#58 diehardtwinsfan

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Posted 09 November 2018 - 01:22 PM

 

This is hard for me to fathom. Buxton's floor is basically a solid regular with elite defensive value and minimal offensive contribution. Sano's floor is... I dunno. Chris Carter? Worse? He has nothing to fall back on if he's not an outstanding hitter. Furthermore, only one of those guys has ever given any reason to question his drive, focus and commitment. 

 

Buxton's floor is a repeat of 2018. There's nothing about that which screams solid regular. 


#59 Nick Nelson

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Posted 09 November 2018 - 01:26 PM

 

Buxton's floor is a repeat of 2018. There's nothing about that which screams solid regular. 

I think we can all agree that any discussion of "floor" goes out the window when you're talking about seasons utterly demolished by injuries. I recognize that Buxton's style of play makes him more injury-prone than others but I don't expect to see him play 28 MLB games in a season often.

 

 

So, this $50 million dollar extension, what exactly does it look like? I need some details....

I laid out a vision in the blueprint linked in the article. Basically it calls for aggressive early raises, while the Twins have financial flexibility, and then reasonable salaries on the back end. 

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#60 Hosken Bombo Disco

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Posted 09 November 2018 - 01:34 PM

 

I guess Herb Score was sending a message to the Cleveland Indians when hit was hit in the face by a line drive? Rookie of the Year in 1955 and only wins 17 games in the rest of his career after being hit in 1956.

Score really wanted to send a strong message. 

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