Jump to content

Providing independent coverage of the Minnesota Twins.
Photo

NBA 2018-19 Thread

  • Please log in to reply
109 replies to this topic

#21 KirbyDome89

KirbyDome89

    Rochester Red Wings

  • Member
  • 1,968 posts

Posted 29 October 2018 - 10:50 AM

http://www.sportingn...ml1vlttqzggerhi

 

What. A. Joke. 

 

Seriously, get this guy out of here. He is single handedly torpedoing chances to be a better team in the future. 

  • TheLeviathan likes this

#22 Vanimal46

Vanimal46

    Showing Up to Summer Camp in the Worst Shape of my Life!

  • Member
  • 13,512 posts
  • LocationAustin, TX

Posted 29 October 2018 - 04:12 PM

http://www.sportingn...ml1vlttqzggerhi

What. A. Joke.

Seriously, get this guy out of here. He is single handedly torpedoing chances to be a better team in the future.


You called it... Of course he's asking for more.
  • KirbyDome89 likes this

#23 Pardon My Dinger

Pardon My Dinger

    Cat Evangelist

  • Member
  • 3,031 posts
  • LocationLos Angeles, CA

Posted 29 October 2018 - 05:38 PM

I’m this case though, it may be worth the ask. Rockets are getting desperate.

Rap name: LL Cool Bean.


#24 Pardon My Dinger

Pardon My Dinger

    Cat Evangelist

  • Member
  • 3,031 posts
  • LocationLos Angeles, CA

Posted 30 October 2018 - 11:14 PM

Yeah, so the Rocks are 1-5 now. At this point, I’d ask for the farm too.

Rap name: LL Cool Bean.


#25 KirbyDome89

KirbyDome89

    Rochester Red Wings

  • Member
  • 1,968 posts

Posted 31 October 2018 - 02:21 AM

It's one thing to ask for more, it's another to demand it and be prepared to walk away. 

 

https://www.thedream...or-jimmy-butler

 

Also, do the Wolves realize how valuable those 1st round picks might be in years 5 and 7? Houston isn't a team that's built to win for the next 5+ seasons. At least the Wolves are playing nice by ensuring they don't create a super power in the Western Conference, because it's not like one of those already exists.....

 

https://rocketswire....ler-to-rockets/

  • Vanimal46 likes this

#26 Taildragger8791

Taildragger8791

    Junior Member

  • Member
  • 975 posts

Posted 31 October 2018 - 08:50 AM

 

It's one thing to ask for more, it's another to demand it and be prepared to walk away. 

 

https://www.thedream...or-jimmy-butler

 

Also, do the Wolves realize how valuable those 1st round picks might be in years 5 and 7? Houston isn't a team that's built to win for the next 5+ seasons. At least the Wolves are playing nice by ensuring they don't create a super power in the Western Conference, because it's not like one of those already exists.....

 

https://rocketswire....ler-to-rockets/

 

Houston is a well-run franchise that rarely is picking in the top half of the draft. They only have a few top 10 picks in the last 35 years. They're going to have some work to do when their stars age out, but good franchises (especially those that are capable of attracting players) can reload without going through a full teardown. And I don't think the Wolves have the luxury of waiting several years to put a team around KAT. He'd (wisely) walk away in that situation. The only thing those picks are good for is trade ammunition.


#27 KirbyDome89

KirbyDome89

    Rochester Red Wings

  • Member
  • 1,968 posts

Posted 31 October 2018 - 11:40 AM

 

Houston is a well-run franchise that rarely is picking in the top half of the draft. They only have a few top 10 picks in the last 35 years. They're going to have some work to do when their stars age out, but good franchises (especially those that are capable of attracting players) can reload without going through a full teardown. And I don't think the Wolves have the luxury of waiting several years to put a team around KAT. He'd (wisely) walk away in that situation. The only thing those picks are good for is trade ammunition.

There's no rule that Wolves have to keep all those picks, or that they have to wait to build around Towns. They can use the picks in a trade, or to clear cap space in an effort to sign another star player in this offseason. 

 

FWIW Paul will be 37 when his contract ends; Harden and Butler would each be in their mid 30s assuming Butler gets the five year deal he's after, and all three are up at roughly the same time. Barring trades, Houston would be committed to those three + Capela without much, if any, wiggle room to brace for the fall. Unless the Rockets completely revamp their entire lineup within a year It's not inconceivable to think those late picks could be high.  


#28 PseudoSABR

PseudoSABR

    Pitch-to-contact poster

  • Twins News Team
  • 5,664 posts

Posted 31 October 2018 - 11:22 PM

Rose drops 50. WTF?


#29 Vanimal46

Vanimal46

    Showing Up to Summer Camp in the Worst Shape of my Life!

  • Member
  • 13,512 posts
  • LocationAustin, TX

Posted 08 November 2018 - 01:10 PM

http://m.startribune...ness/499994631/

Jimmy Buckets tried but Wiggins doesn't listen. Handing Wiggins a max deal was a huge mistake.

#30 Mr. Brooks

Mr. Brooks

    Senior Member

  • Member
  • 8,240 posts

Posted 08 November 2018 - 04:29 PM

http://m.startribune...ness/499994631/

Jimmy Buckets tried but Wiggins doesn't listen. Handing Wiggins a max deal was a huge mistake.


Yep, awful deal.
One of the worst in sports history. I didn't understand it at the time. Why are people teased by his athleticism? It means very little on it's own. There is so much more to be excellent than just athleticism.

#31 TheLeviathan

TheLeviathan

    Twins News Team

  • Member
  • 16,939 posts

Posted 08 November 2018 - 05:34 PM

The NBA forces teams into some rough choices. I don't entirely blame the Wolves.

And I put some blame on Butler. He is a ball hog who simply did not fit with Towns and Wiggins. He has been the problem from day 1.

#32 Mr. Brooks

Mr. Brooks

    Senior Member

  • Member
  • 8,240 posts

Posted 08 November 2018 - 05:57 PM

The NBA forces teams into some rough choices. I don't entirely blame the Wolves.

And I put some blame on Butler. He is a ball hog who simply did not fit with Towns and Wiggins. He has been the problem from day 1.


I'm admittedly not an NBA expert, but it never seemed like a difficult decision to me. Wiggins has never shown any indication that he'd ever be the kind of player you'd miss.
On the contrary, he's consistently ranked among the worst regulars in the league, according to the advanced metrics.

Some people see crazy athleticism, and seem desperate to extrapolate that out to something more than it is.
This team will be a lot better off without Wiggins, and not just because of the salary. He's a negative value player.

#33 TheLeviathan

TheLeviathan

    Twins News Team

  • Member
  • 16,939 posts

Posted 08 November 2018 - 07:23 PM

 

I'm admittedly not an NBA expert, but it never seemed like a difficult decision to me. Wiggins has never shown any indication that he'd ever be the kind of player you'd miss.
On the contrary, he's consistently ranked among the worst regulars in the league, according to the advanced metrics.

Some people see crazy athleticism, and seem desperate to extrapolate that out to something more than it is.
This team will be a lot better off without Wiggins, and not just because of the salary. He's a negative value player.

 

Don't you think he was at least trending in the right direction years 2-3?I agree, the potential seems to have evaporated, but I don't think it's coincidence that the team added a ball-hog that altered where and how he played on the court.


#34 Mr. Brooks

Mr. Brooks

    Senior Member

  • Member
  • 8,240 posts

Posted 08 November 2018 - 09:06 PM

Don't you think he was at least trending in the right direction years 2-3? I agree, the potential seems to have evaporated, but I don't think it's coincidence that the team added a ball-hog that altered where and how he played on the court.


There may have been some improvements offensively, I don't recall exactly.
But, defense matters too.
I'm not sure how Butler being a ball hog prevents Wiggins from playing defense.
Unless Wiggins can improve dramatically on defense, no amount of offense is going to make him a positive player. At least according to the metrics, I thankfully don't watch many Wolves games.

#35 TheLeviathan

TheLeviathan

    Twins News Team

  • Member
  • 16,939 posts

Posted 08 November 2018 - 09:21 PM

 

There may have been some improvements offensively, I don't recall exactly.
But, defense matters too.
I'm not sure how Butler being a ball hog prevents Wiggins from playing defense.
Unless Wiggins can improve dramatically on defense, no amount of offense is going to make him a positive player. At least according to the metrics, I thankfully don't watch many Wolves games.

 

His Winshares were trending in the right direction.I'm not a basketball analytics expert, but prior to last year things were not so dire with him.  

 

And you're right, Butler doesn't present him from playing defense, but could Butler being defending the players Wiggins is better suited to defend?To me, I see Butler and Wiggins as roughly similar in terms of size/build.It seems to me both of them would be better suited playing with a SF who is a long, athletic defender and they match-up better against SGs.  

 

But, like you, I'm not a basketball expert.I just question how much of a coincidence it is he's fallen off a cliff the moment Butler arrived.Towns also has had some of the luster wear off.


#36 Mr. Brooks

Mr. Brooks

    Senior Member

  • Member
  • 8,240 posts

Posted 08 November 2018 - 09:24 PM

His Winshares were trending in the right direction. I'm not a basketball analytics expert, but prior to last year things were not so dire with him.

And you're right, Butler doesn't present him from playing defense, but could Butler being defending the players Wiggins is better suited to defend? To me, I see Butler and Wiggins as roughly similar in terms of size/build. It seems to me both of them would be better suited playing with a SF who is a long, athletic defender and they match-up better against SGs.

But, like you, I'm not a basketball expert. I just question how much of a coincidence it is he's fallen off a cliff the moment Butler arrived. Towns also has had some of the luster wear off.


Perhaps. But I still think any improvements he may have been making were still a far, far cry from max contract.
I didn't understand that one from the start.

#37 Vanimal46

Vanimal46

    Showing Up to Summer Camp in the Worst Shape of my Life!

  • Member
  • 13,512 posts
  • LocationAustin, TX

Posted 08 November 2018 - 10:07 PM

Perhaps. But I still think any improvements he may have been making were still a far, far cry from max contract.
I didn't understand that one from the start.


I remember there being concerns from the higher ups about Wiggins' effort if he was paid a max contract. Enough concern where Glen Taylor had to "look him in the eye" before offering it to him. In hindsight they were right to be concerned.

#38 Mike Sixel

Mike Sixel

    Now living in Oregon

  • Member
  • 31,689 posts

Posted 09 November 2018 - 10:19 AM

The NBA salary situation and CBA doesn't leave teams much choice. If they don't go max, players leave. While that might be more efficient, ,replace Wiggins with a 2nd round pick, and they are actually worse.....you can't win without players. It's an awful CBA, from a team perspective. It's great for players. So, I guess I'm biased to like it from that perspective......

  • PseudoSABR and TheLeviathan like this

It's been a fun year so far, GO Twins. 


#39 Mr. Brooks

Mr. Brooks

    Senior Member

  • Member
  • 8,240 posts

Posted 09 November 2018 - 11:58 AM

The NBA salary situation and CBA doesn't leave teams much choice. If they don't go max, players leave. While that might be more efficient, ,replace Wiggins with a 2nd round pick, and they are actually worse.....you can't win without players. It's an awful CBA, from a team perspective. It's great for players. So, I guess I'm biased to like it from that perspective......


1) I'm not sure I agree a 2nd round pick is worse. It's not like we're talking about a solid player who is unfortunately overpaid. We're talking about one of the worst players in the NBA. According to the advance metrics, Wiggins has negative value when he's on the floor. You literally need someone else to play good, just to get back to even.

2) But, regardless of point 1, you aren't really replacing him with a 2nd rounder. You are replacing him with whichever FA you can get with all that saved money.
  • Mike Sixel likes this

#40 Mike Sixel

Mike Sixel

    Now living in Oregon

  • Member
  • 31,689 posts

Posted 09 November 2018 - 12:35 PM

 

1) I'm not sure I agree a 2nd round pick is worse. It's not like we're talking about a solid player who is unfortunately overpaid. We're talking about one of the worst players in the NBA. According to the advance metrics, Wiggins has negative value when he's on the floor. You literally need someone else to play good, just to get back to even.

2) But, regardless of point 1, you aren't really replacing him with a 2nd rounder. You are replacing him with whichever FA you can get with all that saved money.

 

true, if you can attract one that plays that position....true.

It's been a fun year so far, GO Twins.