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July 31st trading deadline...

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#1 Channing1964

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Posted 14 September 2018 - 12:27 PM

I am sure we arent the only ones that had their season ended abruptly and prematurely. I dont see why this deadline cant be moved up to June 30th or any point just before the All-Star break. This would prevent a lot of these fire sales whether they turn out good or bad for teams. The point being that people have bought tickets in good faith assuming many of the games in August and September would be meaningful. Could there be a way to avoid this practice of deciding we are sellers and gutting the team? I know I dont have all the answers...I only know how disappointed, hurt, and angry I was this year. Does anyone have a solution? Moving the deadline may or not be an answer but I can't see any reason why July 31st is written in stone.

Edited by Channing1964, 14 September 2018 - 12:29 PM.


#2 Shaitan

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Posted 14 September 2018 - 12:39 PM

Didn't they just push it later a few years ago?


#3 Channing1964

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Posted 14 September 2018 - 12:59 PM

Im not sure Shaitan if they did or not. I tried to research it and it has to do with teams making deals to influence playoff seedings and what not. If you didnt allow interleague trading after say the All Star break, then i dont see why anyone would object.

#4 Channing1964

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Posted 14 September 2018 - 01:05 PM

I just think we as fans deserve a chance to see our favorite teams actually compete until they are mathematically eliminated. Our FO had every opportunity to extend many of these players way before July 2018. If they knew they weren't in their long range plans then why didnt they trade them when they could have got more for them? Moving the deadline back a month would force teams to make decisions sooner and put more thought into the decision. To think that your gonna get Escobar back for less money is kind of a fantasy isnt it? They just say that to pacify those that questioned the deal.Im not satisfied with what they got in return. If they would have had to do it sooner they may have got Chris Owings or Ketel Marte , maybe even Jake Lamb out of the deal. I get it his performance had lot to do with the timeline but jeeze....his value to us was way Way more than three A ball teenagers. That dude has heart and he is a leader. Long before this year. You could laugh but if you look at some people for example Lynn, and Odirizzi. Their careers make this years stat line look like an aberration. Theres no reason to think they stink like 2018 forever. Both of those guys have always been way better. Letting Lance Lynn go was a mistake...mark my words. He didnt even have the benefit of Spring Training and he was bringin it at the end. Odo, if they keep him around has what it takes as well....he was a steal. you could look it up.

Edited by Channing1964, 14 September 2018 - 01:19 PM.


#5 Carole Keller

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Posted 14 September 2018 - 01:07 PM

Since this is a more general baseball question/discussion, I've moved this to the 'MLB/Other Baseball' forum.

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#6 spycake

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Posted 14 September 2018 - 01:25 PM

 

Didn't they just push it later a few years ago?

The trade deadline used to be June 15, until 1986. Rick Sutcliffe was one of the famous old "deadline deals", traded June 13, 1984.

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#7 spycake

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Posted 14 September 2018 - 01:28 PM

 

The point being that people have bought tickets in good faith assuming many of the games in August and September would be meaningful.

I think those ticket buyers know the risks. Plenty of teams fail to play "meaningful" games in August and September every year, even without deadline fire sales.

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#8 Channing1964

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Posted 14 September 2018 - 01:43 PM

see that makes a whole lot more sense to me ...you could still keep the August 31st one where it is with the same stipulations but then....gosh ..June 15th if you just stink or get decimated by injuries you could sell but to do what we did...wouldnt happen any more. I am totally surprised the Nationals didnt follow our lead and sell everyone too. They have their own issues that may just be worse than ours.

The trade deadline used to be June 15, until 1986. Rick Sutcliffe was one of the famous old "deadline deals", traded June 13, 1984.


#9 Channing1964

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Posted 14 September 2018 - 01:44 PM

I wonder how many fans it would take to get the MLB to change that policy... I see no reason why it couldnt or shouldnt be done.

#10 jorgenswest

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Posted 15 September 2018 - 08:50 AM

Until 1986 it had been June 15. Here is a little history from SABR if you are interested. I also would recommend some of the links within the article.

https://sabr.org/lat...rading-deadline

#11 Shaitan

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Posted 15 September 2018 - 09:35 AM

I actually dislike the deadline for the opposite reason. I don't like that it's the norm for competing teams to basically turn themselves into all-star teams. 

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#12 ND-Fan

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Posted 15 September 2018 - 09:41 AM

I agree the trade dead line should be moved up to June 15this would discourage clubs from being sellers like they are today. The first reason is that would kill ticket sales for the teams that were sellers like it is today. Second reason would be teams buying would be adding salary for the 75% of the season even if they they were not in contention. Third there would be many more competitive games between clubs because we wouldn't have clubs gutted for last 1/3 of the season. Also with added playoff teams if clubs now having to play against more competitive clubs there would be many more teams with shot of making the playoffs so we have teams within distance of making the playoffs if they got hot at the end of the year. I would think the players association should be in favor of this too because it would mean that clubs would be more aggressive in free agency period because clubs would know it was going to be harder to trade for needs as the season went along. They would also be putting pressure on clubs to bring up younger talent earlier because of needs if they are contending. This would help on service time problem they are having with organizations. The present system is only beneficial to the owners because of lowering there cost for players and keeping service time down. This would be positive for fans and players both i would like to see pressure put on to do this.


#13 ashburyjohn

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Posted 15 September 2018 - 10:39 AM

Until 1986 it had been June 15. Here is a little history from SABR if you are interested. I also would recommend some of the links within the article.

https://sabr.org/lat...rading-deadline

The article makes a reference to an earlier article, but that link is dead. I checked with the latter author, and for anyone who cares, the link is here. It doesn't really get into the whys and wherefores of the 1986 change to July 31, however.

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#14 ashburyjohn

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Posted 15 September 2018 - 11:18 AM

Also, take a look at the Commissioner's remarks, in this article from 3 years ago:

https://ftw.usatoday...y-31-non-waiver

 

If anything, the pressure (presumably from teams, not the Players Association) points toward an even later deadline, rather than earlier. The addition of the wild-card means teams remain undecided on their playoff chances farther into the season than when the rule was last changed in 1986.

 

Incidentally, apparently this rule was part of the 1985 Collective Bargaining Agreement - probably it had no particular bearing on the strike that year, but such rules have to be hammered out to the satisfaction of all parties.

 

I haven't yet found any documentation of what prompted the 1985-86 change, but teams wanting to have more time to decide about postseason chances seems the likely motivation.

 

As for me, I'm basically in the camp that doesn't like watching a small group of super-teams load up by feasting on the carcasses of their dead competitors. But, baseball's a business and is not for the purist.

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#15 Badsmerf

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Posted 15 September 2018 - 11:32 AM

Wait... You think the trade deadline is the reason the Twins suck this year?
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#16 Platoon

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Posted 15 September 2018 - 11:39 AM

I can see the argument has some merit, but seems to be there would be an unintended consequence. It would leave poor baseball teams whose only assets are players with expiring contracts, in even worse shape. Those players aren't going to magically start signing extensions, and the FO isn't going to start offering above market contracts to lure them to do so. Players that get to free agency want to try the market, the grass is always greener............ This would leave teams holding unto a Dozier for example, and getting nothing in return but a wave from BD as he rode into the sunset next winter.

Edited by Platoon, 15 September 2018 - 11:39 AM.

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#17 Channing1964

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Posted 18 September 2018 - 05:22 AM

i simply started the thread because i am feeling ripped off by the selling off of a teams nucleus with one third of the season to go. it seems to me in the best interest of the league to move it back. Minneaota is not the only one this happened to.
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#18 Han Joelo

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Posted 18 September 2018 - 05:47 AM

Some day, maybe, Twins fans will have a reason to be on the other side of this fence.  The Twins will acquire a legit star at the deadline while clearly and competitively in the hunt for a championship.  Then we will think, "gosh, good thing the deadline was not way back in June!"


#19 spycake

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Posted 18 September 2018 - 09:40 AM

 

i simply started the thread because i am feeling ripped off by the selling off of a teams nucleus with one third of the season to go. it seems to me in the best interest of the league to move it back. Minneaota is not the only one this happened to.

I was disappointed as a fan in July too, but I'm not sure about your conclusions.

 

First of all, "nucleus" is probably an overbid, and the Twins weren't part of a large group of potential contenders who were selling and making their teams worse. Maybe the Nationals, although they didn't really sell until late August at which point their odds were similarly long as the Twins. (And again, they just sold two expiring contracts at that point, Murphy who has been below replacement by WAR in 2018 and Gio Gonzalez who had been the worst performer among their 5 regular SP.)

 

Secondly, while the Twins and Nationals sell-offs reduced their long odds further and made their (potential?) races even less interesting, it likely improved the chances of other teams and the competitiveness of other races. The Nationals fortified the Cubs and Brewers; the Twins aided the Diamondbacks, Dodgers, A's, etc. Why should the league be concerned about that outcome? Ryan Pressly could now be a potential postseason star, something he was exceedingly unlikely to achieve in Minnesota in 2018.

 

I agree that there's a point where too much player movement could suggest a problem for the league, but I don't think we're anywhere near that point. We're talking about a handful of teams dealing mostly expiring contracts, 100+ games into the season.


#20 nicksaviking

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Posted 18 September 2018 - 10:08 AM

 

i simply started the thread because i am feeling ripped off by the selling off of a teams nucleus with one third of the season to go. it seems to me in the best interest of the league to move it back. Minneaota is not the only one this happened to.

 

They didn't sell off the nucleus though, just the guys who were going to soon be gone anyway.

 

Considering that almost every deal happens right near the deadline, making it earlier seems like the wrong move. If you want a bad team like the Twins to hold on to their players longer, you'd want to move it later in the year as they'll draw out the trade process hoping to get a better return as other teams are feeling the pressue to improve.