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Article: Where Are The Twins Getting It Wrong?

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#21 mikelink45

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Posted 11 September 2018 - 06:24 AM

I continue to be frustrated with this front office and when I look at yesterday's lineup with Petit and field and a number of other players we do not want to have when was once we challenge for a playoff. Development and transition of minor Leaguers into major league players is not adequate and any measure. September supposed to be a month where we see the future and considering that idea this isn't a good future I'm not happy at all with how the September call UPS have been used and who they are. I believe these front office leaders have a long way to go to get belisle off the resume.
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#22 Blake

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Posted 11 September 2018 - 06:29 AM

The organization doesn't care about the players? 

 

The organization under the new regime looked at what happened last year and, in the off-season, rewarded the team by going out and spending money on free agent acquisitions, which, from I read, was greeted with enthusiasm by the clubhouse.

 

Something the FO has been loathe to do in the past.

 

Yet, the players brought in by Ryan didn't respond and step up.

 

Also, key players, players that were brought in by the previous FO, have struggled at the MLB level.

 

Sorry, this whole, "the organization doesn't care about the players" crap is another way to avoid the obvious: The players on the field aren't getting the job done.

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#23 diehardtwinsfan

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Posted 11 September 2018 - 06:31 AM

 

I see the words “radically shaken up a firmly entrenched organizational structure.”


Don’t know if I can agree with that. From what has been publicly reported, a handful of guys were shuffled. Another handful let go. I’d call that rearranging deck chairs. If there is some information available as to how many (and what percentage) of player development and scouting personnel were let go, I’d be interested in seeing it. Until that evidence is shown, as far as I am concerned it’s the same people in the trenches making the same decisions just with a new boss.

 

They also created a bunch of new positions as well. Orgs don't turnover well when they fire everyone, and I'd argue that there was plenty of good talent in the org, it just wasn't used well. I think a radical shakeup is accurate. 

 

I wouldn't be surprised if there's more shaking up this offseason either. Like it or not, transforming a culture doesn't happen overnight. 

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#24 USAFChief

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Posted 11 September 2018 - 07:09 AM

I can tell you one place where they're getting it wrong: take a look at the current 40 man roster, two years into their tenure.

 

Arguably worse than at any point in my lifetime. And none of what young talent they do have has been signed to a long term contract. Not one single player. 

 

Maybe they've made improvements behind the scenes, but you'll have a hard time convincing me it's made any positive difference to date.

 

And maybe they have a strong lower minor league system. We've had that in the recent past, too. And as Twins fans, nobody should have to tell us a strong lower minor league system isn't a guarantee of anything.

 

It's only been two years, I get that. And they weren't handed a healthy organization. But it's reasonable to conclude the organization is in worse shape now than when they took over. 

 

 

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#25 Vanimal46

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Posted 11 September 2018 - 07:21 AM

It all goes back to Sano/Buxton not doing much this year. Polanco missing a half season. Santana and Castro being hurt 90% of the year. Etc.

I definitely think that the Falvey/Levine combination will be just fine. They just need more time. They've done a lot of good things.

But this was an interesting line to me:


This is the feeling from people in and outside the organization. I've talked to many players still in the organization and some now outside of the organization. I've been told by several that they feel like "just a number." A lot of guys signed or drafted before the new regime feel like their time may be short...

Terry Ryan was very present. It was important to him that the players knew he was around, and they knew he could be communicated with, etc. He spent a lot of time at the affiliates.

It's a completely different culture. Even if some of the names are the same. There have been a lot of guys let go (front office types, scouts, etc.). Some have remained but the culture is completely different. It's all business.. and that doesn't have to be a bad thing.


The human aspect of the job seems to be the thing Falvey and Levine struggle with the most. Minimal to no communication with key organization players past and present.

Ignore your personal feelings about these players... They did not speak to Dozier about an extension or his future with the team. They did not speak to Mauer about his opinion of getting traded or not. They did not speak to Buxton about their decision to send him home for the season.

Most decisions they've made so far is for the benefit of the organization, and Pohlad's wallet. It's not like they've done anything beyond the rules set in place. However, they don't sound like people I would personally want to report into.

I want to feel like a real person, not an ant in an ant farm.
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#26 Number3

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Posted 11 September 2018 - 07:25 AM

Per USAF Chief

"I can tell you one place where they're getting it wrong: take a look at the current 40 man roster, two years into their tenure.

Arguably worse than at any point in my lifetime. And none of what young talent they do have has been signed to a long term contract. Not one single player."

 

 

Bingo, bingo, and bingo! The Twins are in worse shape than at any time including 2016 and that includes the Manager. Molitor seems to be daring the FO to fire him with the lineups and batting orders he has been sending out there. "What are you going to do, fire me?" Only good news is that there should be absolutely no false hope for 2019 and absolutely no marketing slogan that can sugar coat the obvious. Proof in the pudding will be the Baltimore Orioles who crashed and burned this year. I predict they will out perform the Twins next year.

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#27 ChrisKnutson

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Posted 11 September 2018 - 07:29 AM

Hopefully the FO learns from this year’s unpredictability and truly commits to a full blown youth movement in 2019.

I mean we traded Pressly, might as well trade Gibson, Odorizzi, and Castro too.

#28 Blake

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Posted 11 September 2018 - 07:32 AM

 

I can tell you one place where they're getting it wrong: take a look at the current 40 man roster, two years into their tenure.

 

Arguably worse than at any point in my lifetime. And none of what young talent they do have has been signed to a long term contract. Not one single player. 

 

Maybe they've made improvements behind the scenes, but you'll have a hard time convincing me it's made any positive difference to date.

 

And maybe they have a strong lower minor league system. We've had that in the recent past, too. And as Twins fans, nobody should have to tell us a strong lower minor league system isn't a guarantee of anything.

 

It's only been two years, I get that. And they weren't handed a healthy organization. But it's reasonable to conclude the organization is in worse shape now than when they took over. 

I'm going to toss this out there: What the FO does with the 40 man this off-season should tell us a lot.

 

If it's cleaned up and players let go that have no business being on the 40 man, then good.

 

Otherwise, yeah.

 

 

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#29 Blake

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Posted 11 September 2018 - 07:33 AM

 

The human aspect of the job seems to be the thing Falvey and Levine struggle with the most. Minimal to no communication with key organization players past and present.

Ignore your personal feelings about these players... They did not speak to Dozier about an extension or his future with the team. They did not speak to Mauer about his opinion of getting traded or not. They did not speak to Buxton about their decision to send him home for the season.

Most decisions they've made so far is for the benefit of the organization, and Pohlad's wallet. It's not like they've done anything beyond the rules set in place. However, they don't sound like people I would personally want to report into.

I want to feel like a real person, not an ant in an ant farm.

Yes, but is that the responsibility of the CEO or the department head? 


#30 Original Whizzinator

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Posted 11 September 2018 - 07:36 AM

I don't see how anyone can say things are worse that all those 90 loss seasons. Those were some super high draft picks, if they don't pan out this will just take longer. Houston is where they are because their super high draft picks did pan out. This FO has made moves to improve the farm at every opportunity. I am bothered by some of the 40 man/ rule five stuff and the current marginal talents in the lineup. The angst over Buxton is overblown. Gibby got sent down twice something Ryan's regime wouldn't have done and it worked. That was some tough love. If Buxton is complaining now i hope it is in front of a mirror. Some of these guys need to understand the toughness it takes to be a Correa or Lindor. Talent is great but even the best are supreme grinders.
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#31 rdehring

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Posted 11 September 2018 - 07:41 AM

 

Why is the 40-man roster a disaster?Lets begin by looking at how several players who are on it have performed.Gonsalves, not getting it done.Ditto, Stewart.Slegers, always a AAAA player.Romero, probably a good one who is going thru his first year troubles.Little, one they brought in who is a long shot.Gordon, sure failed when promoted to AAA.Wade, although not on the 40-man, ditto Gordon.Busenitz, great at AAA, but last night was an example of what happens when they bring him up.Duffey, don't know what the problem is but he ain't the pitcher he was his rookie season.

 

That's 9, or more than 20% of the 40-man.Those of you contemplating some changes this winter had better hope you are right.Unfortunately, there isn't a magic wand that is gonna fix it next year....well there is, its called Buxton and Sano.Just don't know if that wand is gonna get turned on.

 

 


#32 Vanimal46

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Posted 11 September 2018 - 07:48 AM

Yes, but is that the responsibility of the CEO or the department head?


It's the responsibility of Derek Falvey, Chief Baseball Officer IMO.
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#33 tarheeltwinsfan

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Posted 11 September 2018 - 08:05 AM

A strong lower level minor league system may simply indicate that the major league team has consistently been drafting high, due to poor won lost records annually. 


#34 Doomtints

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Posted 11 September 2018 - 08:09 AM

The front office might figure things out. They need more time.

 

- They chose to do nothing their first offseason. I can buy it that they were working on figuring things out internally (though I'm not sure doing both was impossible).

- Last year's trade deadline flip flop was laughable.

- They did a good job picking up people in the offseason, but they were not perfect. Morrison was nonsense, and the franchise mistreated Vargas one last time which finally broke him. I'm sure they love shouting "I told you so" from the rooftops after Vargas finally performed like they always wanted him to this year in the minors.

- They did a good job selling off people when the season was hopeless, though they won't be able to replace Pressly nor Escobar.

- They jacked up the bullpen because they weren't patient enough.

- Good leaders communicate. With everyone. If a worker doesn't know where he stands, he's not going to be happy and he's not going to perform well for you.

- Most of us have seen enough of Molitor. He doesn't do poorly enough to get fired (although 103 losses in between two >.500 seasons with mostly the same players ... hmmm), but mediocrity is his middle name.

 

What it boils down to is this team needs to 1) be more patient, 2) communicate better, 3) look at data just a little bit harder before making a move, 4) install their own manager.

Edited by Doomtints, 11 September 2018 - 08:24 AM.

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#35 Channing1964

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Posted 11 September 2018 - 08:22 AM

wow is all I can say. I would love to know the average age of the posters to this thread. The Minnesota Twins I grew up with and the most recent successful teams(pre 2011) never resembled this mess AT ALL. Some of you would try to argue with me and say we couldn't beat the Red Sox, or the Yankees or the Astros this year anyway. These people support tanking a season with 60+ games to go. I assure you that those that concur with that decision are not season ticket holders. That being said, I remember 1987, everyone picked us to be swept out of the playoffs by the mighty Motor City Kittys. Our Twins had the 4th best record in the AMERICAN LEAGUE!! I would give my fortune to see you eat the crow if that would have happened last year. As a baseball fan you have to realize it takes a fair amount of good luck to win a title. If you dont believe me ask 1990's Brave Fan. All I ever wanted is for the Twins to be in it in September, and if they are, I know anything can happen. The Twin's Way taught me that. I wish i knew where that was now. Id rather make the playoffs and lose 10 years in a row than put up with this abomination even one more time. We didn't ask for this.
When Andy McPhail was hired he inherited an interim manager and he himself was not even prepared to be offered the position of General Manager of the Minnesota Twins. At that time a decision was made to bring Ralph Houk in as a sort of overseer or consultant to both Andy and the rookie field manager, a guy named Tom Kelly. Do any of you remember him? I wonder if he is available to help us fix this mess. Before none of us even care anymore.
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#36 JaleelWhite FanClub

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Posted 11 September 2018 - 08:26 AM

And most strikingly, they left Byron Buxton off the September roster, in a move transparently motivated by service time preservation.

 

LET!

IT!

GO!

ALREADY!

 

Buxton hitting below.200 for another month and risking injury, as he always does, through September would mean nothing for the team's future.

 

 

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#37 Channing1964

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Posted 11 September 2018 - 08:29 AM

I dont owe them 5 years of my baseball fan life to get on the job training. If they are junior executive whiz kids then why arent they still working for the Rangers and Indians? I didnt see Texas blow up their team and trade Odor, Andrus, Beltre, Mazzara, Gallo, ir even DeShields. Remember them? They are the same guys that waxed our Twins 18-4 last weekend.
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#38 beckmt

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Posted 11 September 2018 - 08:29 AM

 

The organization doesn't care about the players? 

 

The organization under the new regime looked at what happened last year and, in the off-season, rewarded the team by going out and spending money on free agent acquisitions, which, from I read, was greeted with enthusiasm by the clubhouse.

 

Something the FO has been loathe to do in the past.

 

Yet, the players brought in by Ryan didn't respond and step up.

 

Also, key players, players that were brought in by the previous FO, have struggled at the MLB level.

 

Sorry, this whole, "the organization doesn't care about the players" crap is another way to avoid the obvious: The players on the field aren't getting the job done.

The minute any orgainization becomes all business (or what have you done for me lately) and you are just a number, many people (players or workers) try, but do not care to be in that situation.I am one of that type, my managers made all the difference in the world.If they did not respect my work, it was better for both of us if I moved on.  


#39 ThejacKmp

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Posted 11 September 2018 - 08:31 AM

I'm not sure it's fair to compare the Twins to the Athletics and the Rays based on this year. Over the last three years, the A's averaged 70 wins and the Rays 76. Things happened to pop for the Rays and A's this year and they happened to pop for the Twins last year. Especially in a year where the Twins had so many issues with injuries and effectiveness that Oakland seems like it's gotten it easy (and they haven't).

 

We need a broader perspective than this year. And that pertains to a lot of the grousing about the Twins. We get it, this year went poorly. But overall this organization has an excellent farm system featuring some exciting players approaching or in the high minors, a solid MLB core, and payroll flexibility to augment weak areas.

 

This glass is 3/4 full people.

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#40 spycake

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Posted 11 September 2018 - 08:34 AM

I don't see how anyone can say things are worse that all those 90 loss seasons.


Don't look now, but 2018 might be another 90 loss season (currently on pace for 88).