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Article: TEX 18, MIN 4: Speechless

gabriel moya zack littell jake cave chris gimenez matt belisle
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#61 Kelly Vance

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Posted 03 September 2018 - 08:53 AM

Anybody who has seen Belisle pitch knows that if he would have tried to hit Beltre, he woulda missed by a mile. 

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#62 Riverbrian

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Posted 03 September 2018 - 09:29 AM

 

On an unrelated note, I hope this "opener" idea is a fad that goes away quickly... I believe developing good SP is one of the most important things a baseball organization should do. This "opener" idea feels like a cop out for failing to develop SP.

 

Hoping may not get the job done. You may need a gun along with a threatening note and a plane ticket to Tampa.:)

 

The Rays are 73-63

 

Since opening the door on the opener experiment. They have used a traditional starter maybe 40% of the time. 

 

This experiment is taking place during a season that the following players were removed from the roster. 

 

Brad Boxberger

Evan Longoria

Jake Odorizzi

Stephen Souza Jr.

Corey Dickerson

Denard Span

Alex Colome

Brad Miller

Matt Andriese

Nathan Eovaldi

Chris Archer

Nathan Eolvaldi

Adeina Hechoverria

 

Andriese, Eovaldi and Archer were 3 of the few pitchers who were making occasional traditional starter appearances so they have been moving them down the road and increasing the need for this new approach. 

 

Currently the Rays have a Team ERA of 3.68 which is ranked 3rd in the American League. 

 

This is an extremely small sample size and more data needs to be gathered but The Rays are 73-63 with an impressive overall team ERA, in a year that they sold almost all of their talent.  

 

Small Sample Size of course. More data is needed but I think teams should be paying attention. 

 

Besides... there is still no reason to think they won't be still developing Blake Snell as a starter. 

 

 

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#63 Franz

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Posted 03 September 2018 - 10:04 AM

 

Wow, quite a bit of overreacting to a game worth 1/162 of the season.

For me, it is not what the game was worth, but what it represented. I watch and listen to games for entertainment. I am quite serious when I say that for me, watching Byron Buxton play center field is worth the price of admission.

 

For quite some time now, I have NOT been entertained by the team that the Twins have put on the field. A number of their acquisitions and managerial moves over the past three years simply have not been conducive to putting a good product on the field. And when it becomes apparent - even obvious - that a move isn't going to work out, they persist in it!

 

A few examples, in roughly chronological order:

  • Sano in right field, to make room for Plouffe at 3B and Park at DH
  • Grossman ANYWHERE in the outfield
  • Polanco at shortstop
  • Dozier in the leadoff spot
  • Belisle's return
  • Belisle's return (with a new arm angle!?!?)
  • Gimenez's return...as a first baseman?
  • Buxton's non-return

I apologize for not tagging this as <rant></rant>, but I think it's implied at this point in the thread...

 

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#64 notoriousgod71

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Posted 03 September 2018 - 11:31 AM

 

Yes? Check out how many times Craig Counsell has used non-pitchers in games this season... He also uses their backup catcher and backup infielder to pitch. The Brewers are what others strive to be from a rebuild and analytics standard no?

 

Yes? Check out how many times Craig Counsell has used non-pitchers in games this season... He also uses their backup catcher and backup infielder to pitch. The Brewers are what others strive to be from a rebuild and analytics standard no?

 

Yes, it's all over the league and it's ridiculous. I think signing guys like Yelich and Cain and trading for Moustakas and Schoop is what we would strive to be.

 

Their pitching is still horse **** and they probably won't even make the playoffs.


#65 stringer bell

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Posted 03 September 2018 - 11:46 AM

I heard a couple innings of the game on the radio and didn't see a single pitch. By all accounts, it was a dreadful performance not worthy of a Major League baseball team. It has already been a long and disappointing season, so fans are primed to be angry and vent at the manager, players and front office. That said, and alluding to a post above, it is only one game with a confluence of factors that led to the dreadful result.

First of all, this was a meaningless game between two teams long out of the playoff chase. Secondly, a day game in the hot Texas sun with a series against Houston starting this afternoon with the contending Astros meant giving days off to the struggling Sano and to Mauer. Add in that Field and Gimenez likely wouldn't see the field in Houston, Molitor started those guys.Yeah, Gimenez at first base is poor, but if he's not going to play Austin, Mauer, and Sano, and Ehire is at third... I don't know why Austin was out, but whatever. So, a lousy lineup with not much punch. Again, Littel was called up to pitch and the Twins have been itching to try the "opener", so why not? I guess it didn't go well--Moya gave up a bomb--Littel got through four innings but got knocked out in the sixth.

Try out Duffey in the sixth and not good, game out of hand. With both Gibson and particularly Berrios struggling, the next month won't be pretty. The Twins' team ERA will probably end up close to last after being in the middle third for most of the season.

Now about the call-ups and non-call-up. The Twins won't admit it, but Buxton's non-recall is about service time. There have been several threads about it, and honestly from what I've seen most of the Twins Daily constituency is in favor of him not returning until 2019. That the Twins didn't recall higher upside pitchers is probably a sad commentary on what is available in the upper minors. Gonsalves, Stewart, and now Littel are recalled and none of them has produced anything to be optimistic about. I guess Curtiss is heading to Houston after Rochester finishes their season, and maybe a couple of those arms in the Rochester bullpen might also come along, but I don't think any of them are better or better prospect than Moya and Busenitz, who are here now after most of the season in Rochester. I don't blame the Twins for not promoting an iffy MLB prospect not on the 40-man, even though there is plenty of dreck on their roster.

The kind of outcome that occurred yesterday was put in motion when the Twins sold on the trade deadline. They will lose more games because of that and there aren't any worthwhile prospects available to get their feet wet in September. It makes for poor baseball this month, sad to say.

#66 Doomtints

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Posted 03 September 2018 - 12:16 PM

I suspect that announcing to the opposition that you are going to do a bull*** game defeats the purpose of doing a bull*** game.

 

The Twins have announced they are doing three more bull*** games in the immediate future.


#67 yarnivek1972

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Posted 03 September 2018 - 12:35 PM

Agreed. I didn't see any of the game and thought there might be some light hearted LOLs in here today, but wow.

A holiday Sunday road game in September from a team who has been out in awhile. A lineup that didn't feature Mauer, Rosario, Sano or Garver. A bullpen game from the start. Polanco, Kepler and Cave and Moya are the only players who played yesterday who should have a real future for the Twins. Not worth getting your panties in a bunch over.


I think that’s actually kinda the point for some of the angst. Why so many cast offs used yesterday? I get that it is hot in Texas but why not rest some Saturday? Once upon a time there was a rule in ST games that teams had to start at least 4 players expected to make the final roster (pitcher included). Not sure the Twins would have passed under that guideline yesterday.

#68 jimmer

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Posted 03 September 2018 - 12:51 PM

 

Yes, it's all over the league and it's ridiculous. I think signing guys like Yelich and Cain and trading for Moustakas and Schoop is what we would strive to be.

 

Their pitching is still horse **** and they probably won't even make the playoffs.

Brewers have average pitching in the NL and they lead the wild card race.They MAY not make the playoffs, but I'm not sure I'd count them out.

Edited by jimmer, 03 September 2018 - 12:52 PM.


#69 SwainZag

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Posted 03 September 2018 - 12:51 PM

 

I think that’s actually kinda the point for some of the angst. Why so many cast offs used yesterday? I get that it is hot in Texas but why not rest some Saturday? Once upon a time there was a rule in ST games that teams had to start at least 4 players expected to make the final roster (pitcher included). Not sure the Twins would have passed under that guideline yesterday.

 

And it's one game.If this was the everyday lineup going forward everyone SHOULD be up in arms.  


#70 108Stitches

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Posted 03 September 2018 - 08:07 PM

 

Hoping may not get the job done. You may need a gun along with a threatening note and a plane ticket to Tampa.:)

 

The Rays are 73-63

 

Since opening the door on the opener experiment. They have used a traditional starter maybe 40% of the time. 

 

This experiment is taking place during a season that the following players were removed from the roster. 

 

Brad Boxberger

Evan Longoria

Jake Odorizzi

Stephen Souza Jr.

Corey Dickerson

Denard Span

Alex Colome

Brad Miller

Matt Andriese

Nathan Eovaldi

Chris Archer

Nathan Eolvaldi

Adeina Hechoverria

 

Andriese, Eovaldi and Archer were 3 of the few pitchers who were making occasional traditional starter appearances so they have been moving them down the road and increasing the need for this new approach. 

 

Currently the Rays have a Team ERA of 3.68 which is ranked 3rd in the American League. 

 

This is an extremely small sample size and more data needs to be gathered but The Rays are 73-63 with an impressive overall team ERA, in a year that they sold almost all of their talent.  

 

Small Sample Size of course. More data is needed but I think teams should be paying attention. 

 

Besides... there is still no reason to think they won't be still developing Blake Snell as a starter. 

The Rays may be good, but there's no definitive proof its because of this "opener" BS. They are 3rd in ERA, ok so the first two ahead of them use openers too? The Rays are an anomaly, not the new moneyball. As a baseball purist, I HATE this opener crap. It ruins the decades of pitcher statistics and spirit of the game. It is however a great way for clubs to lower the worth of quality starting pitchers and make them appear more expendable because they will claim they don't need a 20 million dollar starter. Just a 2 million dollar opener, and 2- 3 million dollar long relievers. Now I have had a few cold ones, because it is Labor Day dammit, so feel free to rip me apart, but do it with love! :)


#71 Riverbrian

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Posted 03 September 2018 - 08:28 PM

 

The Rays may be good, but there's no definitive proof its because of this "opener" BS. They are 3rd in ERA, ok so the first two ahead of them use openers too? The Rays are an anomaly, not the new moneyball. As a baseball purist, I HATE this opener crap. It ruins the decades of pitcher statistics and spirit of the game. It is however a great way for clubs to lower the worth of quality starting pitchers and make them appear more expendable because they will claim they don't need a 20 million dollar starter. Just a 2 million dollar opener, and 2- 3 million dollar long relievers. Now I have had a few cold ones, because it is Labor Day dammit, so feel free to rip me apart, but do it with love! :)

 

I'm not defending it yet.

 

I'm not calling it BS either. 

 

But I haven't had a few cold ones either. 

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