Jump to content

Providing independent coverage of the Minnesota Twins.
Subscribe to Twins Daily Email
Photo

Article: Hardball, the Twins, and Byron Buxton

minnesota twins byron buxton
  • Please log in to reply
311 replies to this topic

#21 Winston Smith

Winston Smith

    2 + 2 = 5

  • Members
  • 2,834 posts
  • LocationOceania

Posted 31 August 2018 - 10:03 AM

 

Or additional time to see what Cave and Kepler and even Rosario can do at CF.

 

And since it took Buxton an additional season of development (at least) before performing the way the Twins want him to perform, the Twins are fairly taking this season back.If he performed the way expected he would had not "lost" service time.

 

I think that it will be better for him and the Twins to finish the season at ahigh note at AAA instead of coming in the majors and hitting .175...

If he comes up and hits .175 the extra year of control seems meaningless.

  • ashburyjohn, Oldgoat_MN, laloesch and 3 others like this

If you don't know where you are going, you might wind up someplace else.

 

Yogi Berra


#22 raindog

raindog

    Senior Member

  • Members
  • 360 posts

Posted 31 August 2018 - 10:09 AM

I find it incredibly sad that people want the Twins to jerk Buxton around, considering it's mostly been a lost season due to injury. He plays his ass off. He's got a great attitude. Reward that - don't worry about the Twins maybe having to spend more money to keep him if he ever becomes what we hope. 

 

The ONLY people that should be worried about that are the Pohlads. And they have all the money in the world to keep him when that time comes around. 

  • Highabove, Lunger, Hosken Bombo Disco and 3 others like this

#23 Aerodeliria

Aerodeliria

    Cedar Rapids

  • Members
  • 50 posts

Posted 31 August 2018 - 10:23 AM

Of course there is excitement to see if Buxton has turned the corner, and he is the future (at least many think so), but Cave has not turned out to be relatively useless addition. Instead of making the issue about Buxton, why not make it about Cave? I'd rather know if Cave can keep his hitting stats where they have been and improve on his fielding for another month of full-access. He could be valuable asset but he needs as much playing time as he can get. Buxton may be the future, but what if cannot get his groove back or he gets injured yet again? Bring Buxton back in spring and the Twins will have a larger sample of Cave ABs.
  • Riverbrian and 3balls2strikes like this

#24 birddog

birddog

    Junior Member

  • Members
  • 252 posts

Posted 31 August 2018 - 11:05 AM

Delicate situation for a very delicate psyche. Buxton proved last September what he is capable of, but he also proves every April that he is not the same player in April that he is in September. Unfortunately he is paid for the entire season and what is he worth?

 

You gotta like Buck and the Twins need September Buck for a whole season to be successful. He could come up and play like last September or he could be the mess he was earlier this season, which could leave him doubting whether he will ever hit ML pitching consistently. For a player with his speed his K rate can't exceed 20%. IMO he has to learn to consistently make contact in the minors and I think mastering the bunt could/maybe should determine if he will. Twins FO knows what is best and I will leave it up to them to decide. 

  • peterb18 likes this

#25 Brandon Warne

Brandon Warne

    Junior Member

  • Members
  • 1,152 posts

Posted 31 August 2018 - 11:18 AM

 

Unfortunately he is paid for the entire season and what is he worth?

 

A lot. Even subtracting April from his stats shows he was more than just a September wonder last year.

  • Platoon likes this

Follow me on Twitter: @Brandon_Warne

Follow The Athletic on Twitter: @TheAthleticMin


#26 by jiminy

by jiminy

    Junior Member

  • Members
  • 146 posts

Posted 31 August 2018 - 11:33 AM

 

I find it incredibly sad that people want the Twins to jerk Buxton around, considering it's mostly been a lost season due to injury. He plays his ass off. He's got a great attitude. Reward that - don't worry about the Twins maybe having to spend more money to keep him if he ever becomes what we hope. 

 

The ONLY people that should be worried about that are the Pohlads. And they have all the money in the world to keep him when that time comes around. 

 

I respect your skepticism, but in this case I see things differently.

 

To me, it's jerking him around to repeatedly rush him to the majors, and throw him to the wolves before he is ready, before his pitch recognition skills are up to the task, and before he heals from his numerous injuries, and before he learns to not be so reckless with his body in the field.

 

I don't think he has been cheated out of service time. I think the opposite: he was cheated out of the developmental time he needed to arrive ready to thrive.

 

It looked to me like, having just traded away all our other center fielders for pitching, they had to prove they had not left a void at the MLB level, and needed a young star for the fans to hang their hopes on, so they rushed him before he was ready.

 

I don't think they did him OR the team any favors in doing so. I think he has all the tools to be a star, but does not yet have the skills.

 

He never had a full season in AAA.This recent six game streak of mashing AAA pitching, after a disastrous season with a terrible K/BB ratio, even in AAA, is not proof that he is ready to dominate the majors--as I still hope he can do in the long run!

 

Personally I would not care if they kept him in AAA for another full YEAR--or more even, if it meant arriving in the majors prepared to play at an MVP level.

 

I think his talents have been terribly wasted by promoting him to a level he cannot yet handle. How many times do we need to see him flail and fail before we start to wonder if maybe it is not his fault, but is the fault of promoting him before he was ready? What makes the promote-now people so sure his troubles are really over? Why not instead consider the proposal someone made above for a full off-season of weight lifting, and maybe winter ball, to give him the strength and muscle mass to prevent injuries, and time to work on his pitch recognition?

 

We should all be playing the long game. That is in his interest, too. The real money issue for Buxton is not precisely when he gets his first free agent contract, but whether he gets superstar money when he does. And that depends on his long term health and the development of his skills, not a September call-up. I just don't believe three weeks of facing other September call-ups on walking-dead non-playoff teams will make or break his future. Take your time, do it right, and you'll maximize his service time AND his future earnings. That looks more like a win-win scenario to me.

  • Riverbrian, jokin, 70charger and 6 others like this

#27 Oldgoat_MN

Oldgoat_MN

    Any chance we'll extend a player? Anyone?

  • Members
  • 1,865 posts

Posted 31 August 2018 - 12:08 PM

I think they should bring him up and let him play.

If he starts out next season hitting poorly send him all the way back to AA or even A+ and have him work his way up again. At some point he needs to have an OPS of .700 or better to be a valuable MLB player, even with his amazing skills in the field.

  • Don Walcott likes this

Don't believe everything you read on the Internet just because it has a name or a photo you recognize.

- Abraham Lincoln


#28 Tom Froemming

Tom Froemming

    Content Editor

  • Administrators
  • 1,550 posts

Posted 31 August 2018 - 12:30 PM

 

 

5. The Twins already know if they're bringing Buxton up -- they just aren't saying publicly. There's no reason for them to. Again, until he's not up on that day, this is just sounding the alarms for no other reason than to draw page views.

 

Draw page views? Really?

 

So we should never speculate on anything ever? Man, the Offseason Handbook is really gonna suck if that's the case :)

 

Does the front office need to come out and detail their intentions? No, but I do think them not committing either way opens the door for them to be criticized. 

  • Riverbrian and Oldgoat_MN like this

#29 Ted Schwerzler

Ted Schwerzler

    Ft Myers

  • Twins Writers
  • 270 posts

Posted 31 August 2018 - 12:35 PM

 

1. This isn't a "service time issue" until he's not on the roster when the Triple-A season ends. All of this is merely conjecture and frankly rallying the troops for something that isn't even that likely.

 

2. True enough, the optics would be bad if Buxton isn't brought up. "Service time" is something to worry about with guys like Acuna/Bryant, not guys who have 300-plus MLB games with middling results. 

 

3. See above with how Ted's mind changes from day to day. I'm surprised more people haven't noticed this. 

 

4. Buxton has been away from the MLB team for three months and has played a grand total of 35 games -- one at Fort Myers, and 34 at Rochester. Let's look at the Rochester games, as he's hit a respectable .280/.336/.470 with the Red Wings.

  • First 29 games: .234/.298/.405
  • Last six games: .524/.545/.810

To say his numbers overall deserve a promotion is totally true, but dig deeper and it's easy to see he was still knocking off some rust.

 

5. The Twins already know if they're bringing Buxton up -- they just aren't saying publicly. There's no reason for them to. Again, until he's not up on that day, this is just sounding the alarms for no other reason than to draw page views.

 

We dissected this on Twitter the other day, but there's never been any change on my stance regarding Buxton. My take is and always has been that it's silly for a guy with 300 games under his belt to be using Triple-A to "get going." He's missed so much time this year, and the results don't really matter at this point. Seeing MLB pitching, and as much as possible when healthy is the goal. It's not a service time issue yet, and it's probably not going to become one. It's been silly that he's played at Triple-A beyond the necessary rehab stint, and the Twins even being in a position to dance around the service time issue is one that should not exist.

  • Platoon and Don Walcott like this
- Ted Schwerzler
Off The Baggy
@tlschwerz

#30 Ted Schwerzler

Ted Schwerzler

    Ft Myers

  • Twins Writers
  • 270 posts

Posted 31 August 2018 - 12:40 PM

 

I think they should bring him up and let him play.

If he starts out next season hitting poorly send him all the way back to AA or even A+ and have him work his way up again. At some point he needs to have an OPS of .700 or better to be a valuable MLB player, even with his amazing skills in the field.

This is essentially my contention. What are the Twins looking to accomplish here? He's missed a ton of time, and wasn't good at the beginning of the year. Each time Buxton struggles at the plate, are we sending him back so he can "get going?" The guy needs to hit at the MLB level, he's shown he can do it, and he reworked his swing a year ago while staying up.

 

Stop playing him in games that feature inferior competition. The reps are great, but he needs the ones that matter. Leaving him out during September would be laughable and isn't going to happen, but there shouldn't need to be a discussion about it had he been with the team for the past month.

  • Oldgoat_MN and Don Walcott like this
- Ted Schwerzler
Off The Baggy
@tlschwerz

#31 Ted Schwerzler

Ted Schwerzler

    Ft Myers

  • Twins Writers
  • 270 posts

Posted 31 August 2018 - 12:42 PM

 

Draw page views? Really?

 

So we should never speculate on anything ever? Man, the Offseason Handbook is really gonna suck if that's the case :)

 

Does the front office need to come out and detail their intentions? No, but I do think them not committing either way opens the door for them to be criticized. 

And it's not even really criticizing for the sake of chastising a decision. If you're non-committal on what should be a certainty, there's a discussion to be had.

 

I don't spend time in the clubhouse, and I'm not interviewing players. My writing is either a reflection of opinion or stat based conclusions. Also, FWIW, I've never seen a piece-by-piece breakdown of page views and couldn't care less. The discussion generated and conversation sparked for me to partake in is payment enough.

  • Oldgoat_MN and Platoon like this
- Ted Schwerzler
Off The Baggy
@tlschwerz

#32 Number3

Number3

    Cedar Rapids

  • Members
  • 139 posts

Posted 31 August 2018 - 01:36 PM

Is this really all that complicated? Buxton is either a major league ball player or he isn't. Stop treating him like he has some kind of disability. If he is healthy he should be playing at the major league level. If he can't "hack" it so be it. Typical making the proverbial mountain out of a mole hill. What is better for his so called development, playing against an Oakland A's team that is fighting for a playoff spot or playing wiffle ball in his back yard? Way too many chiefs and not enough good Indians. That is for sure.

  • h2oface, Don Walcott and ewen21 like this

#33 USAFChief

USAFChief

    Anyone got a smoke?

  • Twins Mods
  • 21,796 posts
  • LocationTucson

Posted 31 August 2018 - 02:07 PM

 

Is this really all that complicated? Buxton is either a major league ball player or he isn't. Stop treating him like he has some kind of disability. If he is healthy he should be playing at the major league level. If he can't "hack" it so be it. Typical making the proverbial mountain out of a mole hill. What is better for his so called development, playing against an Oakland A's team that is fighting for a playoff spot or playing wiffle ball in his back yard? Way too many chiefs and not enough good Indians. That is for sure.

Many believe one is too many.

  • ashburyjohn, jokin, Ex-Iowegian and 4 others like this

Cutting my carbs...with a pizza slicer.


#34 TheLeviathan

TheLeviathan

    Twins News Team

  • Members
  • 14,968 posts

Posted 31 August 2018 - 02:58 PM

If the question comes down to "is he a major league baseball player"?I'd say the majority of the evidence says "No"

 

At least not yet. 

  • Thrylos and laloesch like this

#35 jokin

jokin

    Twins News Team

  • Twins News Team
  • 11,521 posts

Posted 31 August 2018 - 03:09 PM

 

It's not a service time issue yet, and it's probably not going to become one.

 

It's been silly that he's played at Triple-A beyond the necessary rehab stint,

 

and the Twins even being in a position to dance around the service time issue is one that should not exist.

 

 

Whoa. Ted #2 and Ted #1 are still at odds on the state of Buck's health:

 

 

There's no reason to panic on the player at this point. The talent and tools are all there for him to succeed, but he also needs to be physically capable of putting them on display in a more routine fashion.

 

Ted #2 needs to reconcile his opening quote above with this quote from Ted #1:

 

 

Make no mistake about it, this is a service time issue, and a silly one at that.

 

  • h2oface likes this

 

Joyous, fact-based and tireless Twins fan for 40+ years, who unfortunately has been characterized as-

 

"forcing Twins fans to endure more bitter, baseless, and tiresome cheap shots about the Twins FO."


#36 Don Walcott

Don Walcott

    Chattanooga Lookouts

  • Members
  • 879 posts
  • LocationSanta Fe, NM

Posted 31 August 2018 - 04:43 PM

Buxton was a key component of a playoff team last year. He was (and probably still is) among the best, if not the best, fielders in the game. He showed last year that he can hit as well. If the Twins are going to contend for a playoff spot next year, we are going to need him in center field. We'll also need him to hit well and get on the base paths. Sitting him down for the rest of the year isn't going to help him prepare for 2019. He should be playing as much as possible.

 

Also, as far as the service time thing goes, he's potentially our star player for the next several years. Treat him like it. When it comes time to talk extension with him, he'll be a lot more receptive. Are there players in Rochester, objectively, who deserve to be called up more than him? I don't think so. If he deserves to be called up, not calling him up would be bad faith. I'm not sure why anyone is okay with harming him and his family financially by sitting him the rest of the year. Sure, it's a business, but people who run their businesses by unfairly harming other people end up harming themselves by losing good relationships and creating a bad reputation for themselves. It may seem clever now, but I hope the Twins are thinking long term about their organization, its employees and their culture..

  • Oldgoat_MN, Kelly Vance and Hosken Bombo Disco like this

#37 yarnivek1972

yarnivek1972

    Minnesota Twins

  • Members
  • 4,238 posts

Posted 31 August 2018 - 06:22 PM

Please. Don’t talk about the financial hardship of Byron Buxton. He received a six million dollar signing bonus. Even if he never makes another dime, he should be set for life.
  • Thrylos, adorduan, laloesch and 2 others like this

#38 yarnivek1972

yarnivek1972

    Minnesota Twins

  • Members
  • 4,238 posts

Posted 31 August 2018 - 06:26 PM

Appears to be a moot point. Rosario is out for this series and the next according to Bremer. Ready or not, Buxton will almost surely be up tomorrow.

Edited by yarnivek1972, 31 August 2018 - 06:27 PM.


#39 ewen21

ewen21

    Chattanooga Lookouts

  • Members
  • 758 posts

Posted 31 August 2018 - 07:07 PM

 

If he comes up and hits .175 the extra year of control seems meaningless.

Hello.

 

This counterintuitive reasoning about a bad season and a demotion = another year of team control really has me mystified.This is where the need to "be positive" really gets silly


#40 Riverbrian

Riverbrian

    Goofy Moderator

  • Twins Mods
  • 19,630 posts
  • LocationGrand Forks, ND

Posted 31 August 2018 - 08:36 PM

This isn't delicate to me. I'd knock over every piece of fine china in the store and say... I WANT THE EXTRA YEAR. 

  • Thrylos likes this

A Skeleton walks into a bar and says... "Give me a beer... And a mop".

 

President of the "Baseball Player Positional Flexibility" Club 

Founded 4-23-16 

 

Strike Zone Automation Advocate




Also tagged with one or more of these keywords: minnesota twins, byron buxton