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Reusse's suggestion for the 2019 Twins Marketing Slogan

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#41 alarp33

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Posted 28 August 2018 - 11:42 AM

 

I think ashburyjohn nailed it a few posts below yours:
 

 

Agree... missed that post

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#42 mazeville

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Posted 28 August 2018 - 11:46 AM

 

I keep reading that this team was supposed to be competing this year, but based on the roster and other teams' rosters, I know I didn't expect them to. I expected them to lose more games this year than last, myself.

I think the idea this team was supposed to be competing was based on hope and/or unrealistic expectations. This 2019 team was not built to really compete.

 

I think they were supposed to compete this year. They went to the Wild Card game last year. And there were relatively few teams that were expected to be truly competitive, providing the Twins with an opening (look at the AL Central this year).

 

That they didn't is due largely to the failure of Buxton, the injury to Santana, and the ineffectiveness of the team's free-agent signings. But they could have been competitive this year, no question about it. 

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#43 alarp33

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Posted 28 August 2018 - 11:50 AM

 

I think they were supposed to compete this year. They went to the Wild Card game last year. And there were relatively few teams that were expected to be truly competitive, providing the Twins with an opening (look at the AL Central this year).

 

 

The 2nd Wild Card team is on pace to win 97 games, and the Indians are on pace to win 92-93 (with a super easy Sept schedule upcoming). 

 

I'm not sure there was an opening. 

 

But yes, I agree this team disappointed, largely because they got nothing from Buxton/Sano/Santana and little from Dozier

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#44 Dman

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Posted 28 August 2018 - 11:55 AM

I think this is simply a heart\head article.Reusse is stating how a lot of fans feel about the Twins.I remember talking about the window for contention being 2015 and realistically it seems like it is now going to be moved to 2020.We have been waiting for about ten years now for this team be competitive and hope is in short supply.We have been touting prospects from the minors for a long time and just when we thought we might have a couple of All Stars they both fell flat this year.This team hasn't developed any super star players in a long time.Might be getting close with Rosario and Berrios but they are not there yet.So yeah my bleeding heart agree's with him.

 

My head on the other hand is not there yet.We have to keep digging for talent.You never know where it will show up.Waiver wire, Draft, International signings, Rule V (when really bad) you need to use them all.I love how strong the farm system is and it does give hope that the future will be brighter.Personally I don't love every move this FO has made but I like the overall direction and they certainly need more time show what they can do.I hated the rule V pick this year as it seemed like a rookie mistake move to me but I have been impressed with what they have done in the draft and their ability to work trades.I think if a few things go our way 2019 can be a good year and help from wave two is on the way.

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#45 jimmer

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Posted 28 August 2018 - 11:57 AM

I think they were supposed to compete this year. They went to the Wild Card game last year. And there were relatively few teams that were expected to be truly competitive, providing the Twins with an opening (look at the AL Central this year).

That they didn't is due largely to the failure of Buxton, the injury to Santana, and the ineffectiveness of the team's free-agent signings. But they could have been competitive this year, no question about it.

by that logic, we should have gone far in 2016 based on our 2015 season.

IMO, there certainly was question about how competitive this team should have been expected to be. First, IMO, although I was happy the team won as many as it did last year, I think the team won more than the talent on the team. It was fun to see, but I couldn't see it repeated. As far as being competitive in the division, Cleveland's team was and is way better and there was also Boston, NY, Houston which were all clearly better. Perhaps, if everything went our way, and by playing in a week division we squeak into the one game wild card (like last year) but that doesn't make them true contenders.

#46 KirbyDome89

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Posted 28 August 2018 - 12:14 PM

 

Is this breaking news that a team thats likely to finish under .500 has holes to fill? Are we allowed to give the FO this off season to try and fill some of those holes? 

The criticism comes from the fact that those holes still exist two years into their tenure. We knew it wasn't going to be an overnight turnaround, but even with lowered expectations the results thus far have been underwhelming.

 

Nobody is calling for Falvey's head here. I don't think Reusse is grinding an axe when he highlights their shortcomings or when he points out that focusing on future success is down playing what needs to be addressed in the present. 

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#47 Blackjack

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Posted 28 August 2018 - 12:15 PM

 

Great analysis, thanks for chiming in. PJ Fleck coached in a Cotton Bowl 2 years ago, Tim Brewster was a tight ends coach before Maturi hired him. But other than that you nailed it

 

FWIW I was talking about Reusse mocking the good that Fleck is doing in the community, and his "Row the Boat" mantra, which was created to honor his dead son. 

 

 

It doesn't matter where PJ or Brewster came from, they were both hired as head coach of the Gophers. 

 

At this point PJ sounds just like the snake oil salesman Brewster, until PJ wins some Big Ten games and differentiates himself from Brewster, he's Brewster reincarnated. I can't stand listening to him.Until he starts winning its all talk and bluster. 

 

I hope Ruesse and other columnists do hold his feet to the fire.And lets face it, most columnists write controversial articles so they DO get read.

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#48 Battle ur tail off

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Posted 28 August 2018 - 12:23 PM

 

Sustainability can also be defined as NOT simply blowing things up. And they haven't. Also, as much as I hate to admit it, the fact that a Gonsalves was such a highly touted piece for the rotation, and at this point looks at best a LOOGY (SSS noted) does not reflect positively on the MiLB ready talent level.
 

 

The thing is though, that's the deal. The organization and people around places like this, just salivate over a guy like Gonsalves and will hold him near their vest no matter what. These are the types of guys that should be traded when their "prospect" status is at their peak. What the Twins have always done is bring these guys up, they fail, then they demote and they aren't worth a thing anymore. Basically, they need to be better judges of talent and when you have a pretty good idea a guy will not be a piece for you going forward, move them when they are still looked at as highly valuable prospects. 

 

 


#49 nicksaviking

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Posted 28 August 2018 - 12:57 PM

Criticism I agree with:

 

"Falvey’s new buzz word is “sustainability,” and he backs that up by running a temp service for manager Paul Molitor.

 

In a lost summer when the Twins should have been looking for an answer — yes or no — with relievers such as Alan Busenitz, Tyler Duffey, Jake Reed and John Curtiss, they were wasting appearances on Matt Belisle and now an ultimate journeyman, Oliver Drake"

 

Agreed, makes no sense. Hard to tell if he's implying that this is what Molitor wants or what Molitor is saddled with though.

 

And criticism I don't agree with:

 

"The new bodies from the trades and the rise of Lewis and Kirilloff might excite the Jim Callis [MLB.com prospect guru] crowd, but the majority of Minnesota’s sporting public has been turned so cynical about the words “Twins” and “prospects” that it does zero to create interest for next season."

 

I'd rather be making moves the likes of Jim Callis get excited about than the likes of Reusse's more casual readers. Frankly, I don't care if the casual fans have interest next season.

 

Also, aren't the above quotes contradictory? "Give the prospects a shot instead of these journeymen bums!" and "Forget about the prospects, they'll only disappoint us all!" Geez Reusse, pick a lane.

 

This isn't one of his better pieces.

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#50 alarp33

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Posted 28 August 2018 - 01:04 PM

The thing is though, that's the deal. The organization and people around places like this, just salivate over a guy like Gonsalves and will hold him near their vest no matter what. These are the types of guys that should be traded when their "prospect" status is at their peak. What the Twins have always done is bring these guys up, they fail, then they demote and they aren't worth a thing anymore. Basically, they need to be better judges of talent and when you have a pretty good idea a guy will not be a piece for you going forward, move them when they are still looked at as highly valuable prospects.


I’m curious how you know how the Twins value Gonsalves, or know that other teams saw him as a highly valuable prospect?
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#51 ken

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Posted 28 August 2018 - 01:38 PM

My head on the other hand is not there yet. We have to keep digging for talent. You never know where it will show up. Waiver wire, Draft, International signings, Rule V (when really bad) you need to use them all.


Agree, you never know where the next Derek Rodriguez will come from 😁.

I don't think this FO has yet realized they might already have better talent in the system than they are finding on the waiver wire and rule 5 draft.
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#52 spycake

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Posted 28 August 2018 - 01:56 PM

Also, aren't the above quotes contradictory? "Give the prospects a shot instead of these journeymen bums!" and "Forget about the prospects, they'll only disappoint us all!" Geez Reusse, pick a lane.


I have no interest in defending Reusse here -- but maybe he's suggesting the Twins have had trouble picking a lane?

Also, those are two different classes of prospects -- those that could theoretically help in 2019, and those that are for 2020 or beyond. I think he might be expressing some frustration that so few of our upper-level prospects look 2019 worthy right now.
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#53 mazeville

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Posted 28 August 2018 - 01:57 PM

 

The 2nd Wild Card team is on pace to win 97 games, and the Indians are on pace to win 92-93 (with a super easy Sept schedule upcoming). 

 

I'm not sure there was an opening. 

 

But yes, I agree this team disappointed, largely because they got nothing from Buxton/Sano/Santana and little from Dozier

 

I think the season looks very differently if Buxton, Sano, Santana and Dozier perform differently, if Polanco didn't have an 80-game suspension and if Morrison wasn't horrible. 

 

On its own, Buxton performing for the full year like he did in the second half of last year would have kept this team within easy striking of the Indians at the trade deadline and then who knows what happens. 

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#54 alarp33

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Posted 28 August 2018 - 02:09 PM

 

I think the season looks very differently if Buxton, Sano, Santana and Dozier perform differently, if Polanco didn't have an 80-game suspension and if Morrison wasn't horrible. 

 

On its own, Buxton performing for the full year like he did in the second half of last year would have kept this team within easy striking of the Indians at the trade deadline and then who knows what happens. 

 

Of course, if everything went correctly this team would have been better. My point was you equated the fact they were a wild card team with contention should've happened this year. They won 85 games last year, and may have needed to win 10 more than that this year to make the playoffs. I don't think anyone would have looked at this team in March and said it was a 95 win team. 

"The game has changed since I've entered, it's for bright, energetic negotiators moreso than anything I possess." - Terry Ryan 2007


#55 nicksaviking

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Posted 28 August 2018 - 02:40 PM

 

I have no interest in defending Reusse here -- but maybe he's suggesting the Twins have had trouble picking a lane?

Also, those are two different classes of prospects -- those that could theoretically help in 2019, and those that are for 2020 or beyond. I think he might be expressing some frustration that so few of our upper-level prospects look 2019 worthy right now.

 

Perhaps that was his implication. If so, I think his (?intentional?) angry old man shtick clouded his message.


#56 mazeville

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Posted 28 August 2018 - 02:45 PM

 

Of course, if everything went correctly this team would have been better. My point was you equated the fact they were a wild card team with contention should've happened this year. They won 85 games last year, and may have needed to win 10 more than that this year to make the playoffs. I don't think anyone would have looked at this team in March and said it was a 95 win team. 

 

They won 85 games last year. They added Jake Odorizzi, Lance Lynn, Logan Morrison, Addison Reed and Fernando Rodney to said team.

 

Young players, Buxton chief among them, were supposed to take steps forward. Or at least not regress to the minors. So improvement should have been expected. 

 

And please point me to any source that guessed 95 wins would be the bare minimum to get to the playoffs.

 

In any event, if the Twins were on pace to simply improve by 5 games they absolutely would be in contention. And 5 games was not much to ask from this team given their additions over the offseason combined with improvement expected by the young players as well as starting pitching depth.

 

That they aren't in contention is a disappointment. As well it should be. 

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#57 USAFChief

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Posted 28 August 2018 - 02:51 PM

 

They won 85 games last year. They added Jake Odorizzi, Lance Lynn, Logan Morrison, Addison Reed and Fernando Rodney to said team.

 

Young players, Buxton chief among them, were supposed to take steps forward. Or at least not regress to the minors. So improvement should have been expected. 

 

And please point me to any source that guessed 95 wins would be the bare minimum to get to the playoffs.

 

In any event, if the Twins were on pace to simply improve by 5 games they absolutely would be in contention. And 5 games was not much to ask from this team given their additions over the offseason combined with improvement expected by the young players as well as starting pitching depth.

 

That they aren't in contention is a disappointment. As well it should be. 

Spot on.

 

 

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#58 TheLeviathan

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Posted 28 August 2018 - 03:01 PM

So....I assume this totally lines up with what he said in March and April right?

 

No?Right.There is nothing wrong with sustainability as the FO intends it.It only becomes a dirty word if you twist it around to fit a narrative.The Twins do need some good fortune and a big offseason - that might've made a better (and more coherent) thesis for an article.

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#59 ThejacKmp

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Posted 28 August 2018 - 03:08 PM

Reusse is not a person we should listen to. We should know that by now.

 

This Twins team is going to absolutely be competitive:

 

* Things can’t go as wrong as they did this year (knock on wood). Sano and Buxton going down to the minors, Polanco missing ½ the season, Castro missing all but a month, Logan Morrison being injured/bad, Lance Lynn sucking for six weeks, Santana starting only a handful of games – you tell Twins fans that before the season and say we’re in second in the division and we’d be overjoyed. That’s 2/5 of the rotation and five regular position players. No one except the elite teams survives that and even those teams probably fall apart. Next year almost has to be better. (And I didn't even mention Dozier being below replacement or Mauer missing a month with a concussion).

 

* The division will still be bad. The Indians are losing some pen arms but will still be good. Other than that you have the White Sox and the rebuilding Tigers and Royals (both of whom have terrible farm systems). The AL Central will be there for the Twins to compete.

 

* Money. The Twins shed a ton of payroll and Flavine have shown a desire to pursue free agents when they fit. They can pay to cover holes.

 

* And the Twins don’t have too many holes when you get down to it.

 

  • The Outfield will likely be Buxton, Rosario, Kepler, Cave, Austin to begin the year. That’s not bad, especially with Rooker coming up and AK a potential late season boost.
  • Catching could be targeted if the right guy comes along (Grandal) but otherwise Castro and Garver seems like an above-average combination.
  • Infield. Left side is relatively set with Sano and Polanco. Right side is more open but lots of 2B options and 1B will be Mauer or can be filled with Austin or a Logan Morrison type. Could use another utility option but Gordon lurks in the minors and is still young.
  •  Starting pitching depth isn’t bad with Gibson, Berrios, Pineda, Romero, Gonsalves, Mejia, Odorizzi, Thorpe, Stewart. They could use a top-end addition and if that isn’t available, could go for a few smart reclamation projects (Santana wouldn’t be a bad option on a 1-year prove-it deal).
  •  Relief pitching is a place the Twins could target but they have a solid 3-5 positions filled with May, Buesnitz, Reed, Rogers, Moya, Hildy, etc. They can target a top end option (Andrew Miller?) or go for some depth pieces.

So you’re looking at targeting catcher/starter if you get something nice but you don’t need to overpursue. A solid middle infielder is a must but the market is good for that so the Twins should be set. Flavine have shown a good handle on the reliever market so that should be doable. 1B/DH is a bit dicey but between Garver, Sano, Mauer, Austin, Rooker, and free agency, you should be okay.

 

I'm extremely optimistic for the 2019 Twins. I thought Flavine put together a great team in 2018 that just didn't work out. It happens. Even amidst that there were some great developments (Berrios, Gibby, Rosario, Kepler hitting lefties, Romero, Cave, beefing up the farm system at the deadline) and the Twins will have the financial flexibility to target the few holes they have.

 

I'm in Vegas for my anniversary in October. Can't wait to bet $20 on the Twins winning the series in 2019. Not super far-fetched. 

 

P.S. Stop listening to Reusse. He gets paid to appeal to the armchair fan. He's a blowhard. 

Edited by ThejacKmp, 28 August 2018 - 03:44 PM.

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#60 ThejacKmp

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Posted 28 August 2018 - 03:15 PM

 

Of course, if everything went correctly this team would have been better. My point was you equated the fact they were a wild card team with contention should've happened this year. They won 85 games last year, and may have needed to win 10 more than that this year to make the playoffs. I don't think anyone would have looked at this team in March and said it was a 95 win team. 

 

Same time I don't think anyone would look at it and say it had no shot at being a 95 win team. Dozier is Dozier, Buxton has a .750 OPS, Sano has an .850 OPS, Lance Lynn is a solid #3, Santana comes back strong, Logan Morrison hits 25 home runs and this team might have been 95 wins. If you build a team that could reasonably win 95 games (nothing I said above was anyone being Superman, just hitting the high and not the low), then I think you did your job.