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Article: Week in Review: Mauer Passes Carew

joe mauer jake odorizzi stephen gonsalves tyler wells
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#21 Carole Keller

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Posted 27 August 2018 - 12:56 PM

 

Definitely tongue in cheek.

 

Can I ask why you don't want the service time to be a factor? It seems a no-brainer to me - this year isn't so much of a wasted year if the Twins get to tack another one on at the end. I guess I just don't see what Buxton is going to prove in September that us worth losing 162 games of control.

If the Twins want to go for it and compete next year, Buxton needs to be ready. He needs to get his reps. If he's not up due to another injury, okay, I get that, but if he's not up because of control, that's a bit self-serving. If he's ready he should be up and playing and getting his reps in at the ML level. It just strikes me as a little 'cheap' and not quite ethical even if technically it's a move they could make.

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#22 Mike Sixel

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Posted 27 August 2018 - 01:00 PM

Congrats to Mauer. Dude was a raking machine earlier in his career.

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There's always next year, or the next, or maybe by the time I'm Chief's age, I guess....


#23 SwainZag

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Posted 27 August 2018 - 01:09 PM

 

If the Twins want to go for it and compete next year, Buxton needs to be ready. He needs to get his reps. If he's not up due to another injury, okay, I get that, but if he's not up because of control, that's a bit self-serving. If he's ready he should be up and playing and getting his reps in at the ML level. It just strikes me as a little 'cheap' and not quite ethical even if technically it's a move they could make.

 

So a week more of MLB at bats in September is going to make him that much more ready next April?I just don't buy that.Even if it's "cheap" it's the way it works in baseball.It's not like Buxton has been tearing the cover off the ball and this move would cost him millions.I have no problem whatsoever with it.


#24 Carole Keller

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Posted 27 August 2018 - 01:21 PM

 

So a week more of MLB at bats in September is going to make him that much more ready next April?I just don't buy that.Even if it's "cheap" it's the way it works in baseball.It's not like Buxton has been tearing the cover off the ball and this move would cost him millions.I have no problem whatsoever with it.

one more week? Wouldn't he have a month?

 

Just my opinion ... I just think it's the wrong decision to make if he's perfectly fine and healthy and ready to come up.

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#25 D. Hocking

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Posted 27 August 2018 - 01:23 PM

This might not belong in this thread, but since we probably don't need another Mauer thread, I did think this was kind of a cool story.

 

https://www.twinciti...e-on-a-t-shirt/

 

 

IMG_10303.jpg?fit=620%2C9999px&ssl=1


#26 Hosken Bombo Disco

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Posted 27 August 2018 - 01:31 PM

Feels too much like micromanaging. He's healthy, playing well, just bring him back up.
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#27 SwainZag

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Posted 27 August 2018 - 01:37 PM

 

one more week? Wouldn't he have a month?

 

Just my opinion ... I just think it's the wrong decision to make if he's perfectly fine and healthy and ready to come up.

 

Ah, I thought I read he would have to be in the minors until after the 1st week of September to have the extra year, I could be wrong.I mean....who said he's perfectly fine though?His play earlier certainly didn't look fine...though he was healthy for parts of it.


#28 USAFChief

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Posted 27 August 2018 - 01:55 PM

This is pretty misleading.

Since we’re really measuring getting on base when we count hits, a better stat would be to include walks to hits. With that, Mauer is a 3020, Puckett is at 2754, and Carew is at 2698. If you want to look at it another way, you can do total bases including walks since clearly hitting home runs is better than singles. Mauer is at 3926, Puckett at 3903, Carew is at 3405.

And yes Mauer did that in two extra years (his rookie year was 35 games, not really a full year) but he was also a catcher for nine of those years and thus sat more games due to the position. The total number of games played is Mauer 1829, Puckett 1783, Carew 1635. The total plate appearances is Mauer 7839, Puckett 7831, and Carew 6980.

Joe Mauer’s statistical profile compares quite admirably to Rod Carew’s Twins career and Kirby Puckett’s entire career. In my book, he’s ahead of Puckett for sure (equivalent OPS+ while playing nine years at catcher) and Carew is debatable depending on how you weight positional value and take into context the relative ages of the two men during their Twins careers.

Joe Mauer had a strong HOF case before he got this hit. You’re right that passing Carew doesn’t change that but I don’t think anyone besides you said it did.

You forgot to add Carew’s OPS+.

Carew 137, Mauer 125.

And I don’t know what relative age has to do with it.

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#29 jkcarew

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Posted 27 August 2018 - 01:59 PM

The thing with Buxton is I'm not hearing anything about tearing his swing down and building back up from scratch.It's more...well, he's feeling better, so let's start throwing him out there.

 

If that's the case, I want as many of those remaining 2018 PA to be in the majors.I'm way more concerned with 2019 than I am the last year of control in 2022.We have no realistic confidence level that the combination of his health and performance will even warrant caring about the additional year by the time it comes around.His career OPS+ is 79.I'd just as soon not waste one day between now and the beginning of 2019 in terms of seeing if he can figure out how to hit major league pitching.


#30 ThejacKmp

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Posted 27 August 2018 - 02:06 PM

 

You forgot to add Carew’s OPS+.

Carew 137, Mauer 125.

And I don’t know what relative age has to do with it.

 

Carew's career arc with the Twins didn't include the inevitable downturn later in his career because he went to the Angels. Mauer's did. The relative age matters to some extent, up to you how much I imagine.

 

Carew certainly hit better than Mauer by raw numbers. When you're talking best Twins or looking at their Twins career in context, you'd have to take position into account however. Mauer and Carew both ended up at 1B but before that Mauer caught and Carew was a 2B. It would be a matter of debate how important that is to your concept of the player. I'd go Mauer over Carew but would certainly have no issue with someone going the other way. Both won gold gloves at their position, both had similar postseason success (or lack thereof) - it's a fun debate. 

 

I'd go Killebrew at #1 (clear OPS advantage at 145, with the Twins org for 21 seasons, counting stats etc.) but I don't think it's as big a gulf as people might think. Mauer without concussions probably catches him- conjecture of course, can't predict the "what ifs"

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#31 jkcarew

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Posted 27 August 2018 - 03:32 PM

 

I'd go Killebrew at #1 (clear OPS advantage at 145, with the Twins org for 21 seasons, counting stats etc.) but I don't think it's as big a gulf as people might think. Mauer without concussions probably catches him- conjecture of course, can't predict the "what ifs"

Yes...I'm not one for "Mauer without concussions take".What about Puckett without glaucoma?What about Oliva without devestating, crippling really, knee injuries?One had his counting stats severely truncated...the other say his productivity numbers nose-dive as he attempted to play for seasons without legs.You are what you are, you did what you did.Joe is not nearly the first to have a 'reason/excuse' (whatever you want to call it) for not having 'even better' numbers.

 

With regard to Carew vs Mauer...both were ridiculously great for a few years.But, Carew sustained the "really goodness" for more seasons than did Joe.I have no problem with people that feel Joe's 2009 was better than Carew's 1977 based on the fact that Joe caught 105 games that season.(Joe only caught 100+ games in 5 seasons.)

 

Joe is to be congratulated for his milestone accomplishments.He's lucky in that he is in a situation where he should be able to complete a full career with his original club...an opportunity Carew would have loved, but wasn't offered in any serious manner.I think Joe appreciates this.

 

FWIW...someone gave Carew credit for a Gold Glove earlier in this thread.He never won one.Wasn't ever really considered that strong of a second-baseman.Good range, a bit stiff around the bag, making the turn, etc.Average hands...which seems ironic given what they did with a bat.He ended up being an above-average first-baseman.Also, Carew missed the better part of an entire season, as well....1970.Early in his career also missed significant games with mandatory/periodic exercises with the Army Reserve (or was it the National Guard)?

 

 


#32 caninatl04

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Posted 27 August 2018 - 03:36 PM

If Buxton doesn't come up in September the twins gain an extra year of control. You can argue the merits but leaving Buxton off the September roster is not inexpliacable. I'm kind of hoping he hits well til the last red wings game and then tweaks a muscle so the twins have an excuse.


At this point, I don't think a Buxton injury is a hope. Its more of a prediction.

Maybe they should switch him to whole milk or something.

#33 caninatl04

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Posted 27 August 2018 - 03:39 PM

I'd just as soon not waste one day between now and the beginning of 2019 in terms of seeing if he can figure out how to hit major league pitching.
[/quote]

I'm sorry, but the Twins will NOT be competitive in 2019. Maybe .500.

But 2020?

#34 mikelink45

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Posted 27 August 2018 - 05:08 PM

I feel like we are all looking for something that is not there.In another day or two we will have 70 losses.The Twin record for Mauer's career is 1172 - 1228.Our average place in our division is 3rd.Nice player, but not a difference maker.  

 

Of course I will also upset the baseball world by saying Trout is an exceptional player, but he has not done anything to raise his teams record either.That is baseball.Baseball really is a team game.(Sorry stat heads it is not a stats only game).

 

This is a nice posting for a team where we are running out of story lines.We emphasize one good player contribution in a game, but in the end we lose.

 

I am worn down and my optimism has been tampered.I do like some young players and I do see some good future, but it is hard to extract that from these games.We play a good team and we lose and that good team as far as I can see does not have a great rotation or more than a handful of great players. What is our excuse and what can we do about it?


#35 jimmer

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Posted 27 August 2018 - 05:36 PM

I feel like we are all looking for something that is not there. In another day or two we will have 70 losses. The Twin record for Mauer's career is 1172 - 1228. Our average place in our division is 3rd. Nice player, but not a difference maker.

Of course I will also upset the baseball world by saying Trout is an exceptional player, but he has not done anything to raise his teams record either. That is baseball. Baseball really is a team game. (Sorry stat heads it is not a stats only game).

This is a nice posting for a team where we are running out of story lines. We emphasize one good player contribution in a game, but in the end we lose.

I am worn down and my optimism has been tampered. I do like some young players and I do see some good future, but it is hard to extract that from these games. We play a good team and we lose and that good team as far as I can see does not have a great rotation or more than a handful of great players. What is our excuse and what can we do about it?

In regards to Trout (or ANY one player) it's silly to think one guy can carry a baseball team. He doesn't pitch, he only plays one position (can't play other players position), and he is one of 9 batters (and likely close to 15 or 16 batters throughout the year) A team will likely use close to 40 players a season if not more.

Baseball isn't basketball. Most of the time, baseball is about individual battles. One guy, no matter what myths are out there, doesn't get his team to playoffs or go far in playoffs.

Edited by jimmer, 27 August 2018 - 05:44 PM.

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#36 mikelink45

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Posted 28 August 2018 - 08:52 AM

 

In regards to Trout (or ANY one player) it's silly to think one guy can carry a baseball team. He doesn't pitch, he only plays one position (can't play other players position), and he is one of 9 batters (and likely close to 15 or 16 batters throughout the year) A team will likely use close to 40 players a season if not more.

Baseball isn't basketball. Most of the time, baseball is about individual battles. One guy, no matter what myths are out there, doesn't get his team to playoffs or go far in playoffs.

I agree, but now that we are diminishing the starter significance we do not have that heavy weight champion to take the mound and carry us through either.A Verlander and Kershaw is still a delight for me, but Baseball is the craziest game of individualism and team combined.

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#37 jimmer

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Posted 28 August 2018 - 10:09 AM

I agree, but now that we are diminishing the starter significance we do not have that heavy weight champion to take the mound and carry us through either. A Verlander and Kershaw is still a delight for me, but Baseball is the craziest game of individualism and team combined.

I love me some Kershaw and Verlander too, but even the great innings eating starting pitchers get help from his catcher calling the game, the defense behind him, and the offense that scored enough for the team to win. Even the best pitchers can't win a game on their own.
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#38 mikelink45

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Posted 28 August 2018 - 10:49 AM

 

I love me some Kershaw and Verlander too, but even the great innings eating starting pitchers get help from his catcher calling the game, the defense behind him, and the offense that scored enough for the team to win. Even the best pitchers can't win a game on their own.

That is so true and I am glad you said that. Baseball's combination of individual performance and team ability is what makes it so great and I wish baseball could promote that more. 

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#39 diehardtwinsfan

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Posted 28 August 2018 - 11:20 AM

 

If the Twins want to go for it and compete next year, Buxton needs to be ready. He needs to get his reps. If he's not up due to another injury, okay, I get that, but if he's not up because of control, that's a bit self-serving. If he's ready he should be up and playing and getting his reps in at the ML level. It just strikes me as a little 'cheap' and not quite ethical even if technically it's a move they could make.

Control or not, I don' t see a scenario where he's ready next spring. Personally, they need a 1 year stop game and he needs to earn the starting job. 


#40 Carole Keller

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Posted 28 August 2018 - 11:25 AM

Control or not, I don' t see a scenario where he's ready next spring. Personally, they need a 1 year stop game and he needs to earn the starting job.

That’s fair. I think if he’s ready he should be up. If he’s not, then not. I just didn’t think that the decision of whether or not he’s up should be based solely on team control. That’s where my comment was coming from.

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