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Article: September Piggyback Ride

jose berrios michael pineda stephen gonsalves kohl stewart fernando romero
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#21 AceWrigley

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Posted 22 August 2018 - 10:27 AM

Definitely piggybacking.We have the horses. Piggyback 'till the cows come home. And since Falvine let the cat out of the bag on this, we can assume its more than just a dog and pony show of our stud pitchers. Gotta see who can really pitch seeds before we let some out to pasture. Nuf.

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#22 Mike Sixel

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Posted 22 August 2018 - 10:45 AM

It is a great idea. I doubt they do it.

There's always next year, or the next, or maybe by the time I'm Chief's age, I guess....


#23 caninatl04

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Posted 22 August 2018 - 10:52 AM

Strange suggestion, but perhaps consider shutting Gibson down for the season.If, and I mean if, a pitcher only has so many innings in them in their career, I'd rather they be used in upcoming years.And the starts could be used for the AA/AAA/AAAA pitchers mentioned above. 

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#24 zwiefz

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Posted 22 August 2018 - 11:31 AM

I like the idea, but with one tweak.I don't think you can just say Pitcher B is going to follow Pitcher A.Starting pitchers are notorious for taking a long time to get warmed up to game speed.What then happens when Pitcher A gets shelled in the 2nd inning like Stewart or Gonsalves just had happen?If the plan had been for Pitcher B to come in after them then you are rushing them to get ready.

 

So my tweak would be to say Pitcher A starts the 1st and Pitcher B will start the 5th.If Pitcher A has to be yanked early then you go with relievers until the 5th so that Pitcher B can go through their normal pregame warm up routine. If you rush them then you are asking them to prepare as a reliever, not a starter.And I think that is setting these young guys up for failure.

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#25 Tomj14

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Posted 22 August 2018 - 12:02 PM

 

Seth, I like the piggy back idea but what are the odds that the Twins do something like that??I just heard Molitor say the other day that he's still trying to win games.To him that means a starter and then piece in your best relievers.

Maybe that is Molitor's problem, not thinking outside of the box to win games. I mean his way hasn't gotten them to .500 this year and taken a toil on the bullpen.


#26 Tomj14

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Posted 22 August 2018 - 12:06 PM

 

 

I like the idea, but with one tweak.I don't think you can just say Pitcher B is going to follow Pitcher A.Starting pitchers are notorious for taking a long time to get warmed up to game speed.What then happens when Pitcher A gets shelled in the 2nd inning like Stewart or Gonsalves just had happen?If the plan had been for Pitcher B to come in after them then you are rushing them to get ready.

 

So my tweak would be to say Pitcher A starts the 1st and Pitcher B will start the 5th.If Pitcher A has to be yanked early then you go with relievers until the 5th so that Pitcher B can go through their normal pregame warm up routine. If you rush them then you are asking them to prepare as a reliever, not a starter.And I think that is setting these young guys up for failure.

agreed, I assumed that is how it would work. If not I no longer like the idea.


#27 Shaitan

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Posted 22 August 2018 - 12:33 PM

 

Having a different pitcher start an inning adds essentially no extra time to the game. It's the mid-inning reliever trotting in and then getting his allotment of warmup pitches that bogs the game down.

 

If anything, not trying to wring 6 or more innings out of your starter reduces the chance of needing a mid-inning phone call to the bullpen.

In theory, but this is Molitor we're talking about. He'll make sure to use 35 of 40 players on the roster in every game if possible.


#28 Respy

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Posted 22 August 2018 - 12:50 PM

I think it's a good idea. But, can you imagine how much more some of these pitchers will nitpick if they think they are only going 3 or 4 innings? Tell a guy 4 innings, and he might think he can now use 100 pitches over 4 innings. If piggybacking, I think I'd rather give them a pitch limit to incentivize efficiency. Then if one guy goes 5 innings on 70 pitches and another 4 innings on 50 pitches, then great! Bullpen would get a rest that day.


#29 Blackjack

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Posted 22 August 2018 - 01:17 PM

 

It is a great idea. I doubt they do it.

 

I agree.


#30 Kelly Vance

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Posted 22 August 2018 - 01:31 PM

The "Opener concept" is nothing new. Its used in Little league everywhere. Start an ok pitcher and bring in a better one to change the speed on hitters.  Harder to adjust 

 

Personally, I think it is a fad that will fade away. Starters don't like being bumped for a stop gap to start. 

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#31 yarnivek1972

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Posted 22 August 2018 - 02:08 PM

The "Opener concept" is nothing new. Its used in Little league everywhere. Start an ok pitcher and bring in a better one to change the speed on hitters. Harder to adjust

Personally, I think it is a fad that will fade away. Starters don't like being bumped for a stop gap to start.


I think the upper echelon starters will always be. But, I think where openers are likely to stick is with a team’s 4th and 5th slots. Odorizzi types. Maybe not for every team, but “bullpen games” are not really a new concept either.

Every team will look at their roster and do what they think best gives them a chance to win.
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#32 gman

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Posted 22 August 2018 - 03:47 PM

I'm for it. However, I would skip a couple of starts for both Berrios and Gibson into the schedule. Berrios especially has looked a little ragged recently. It wouldn't be the first time a starter got a rotation day off.

 

You could also schedule a relief pitcher only day once a week or so. I would leave Hildenberger out of this and let him gets some rest.

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#33 jorgenswest

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Posted 22 August 2018 - 04:12 PM

Well thought out and intriguing.

My first reaction is that I would prefer a model that might work with a 12 man pitching staff. This model works for September and maybe for the 25 with 2 piggyback slots.

I am certain they are studying the opener model and thinking about whether the talents of some of their staff would fit that model.

The remainder of the season is a great opportunity to try a different model. I prefer that look be something that they might also be able to use next April.
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#34 Kelly Vance

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Posted 22 August 2018 - 11:05 PM

You know, why not move starters back a couple days or even let them go on a every 10th day rotation in, say, September. Earlier if you have a huge lead. Let the Dawg days be a good excuse to call guys up and rest your starters for the playoffs. Look at Boston this year. They could let their starters take a week off easy.  But will that be enough to give the arms time to bounce back? 


#35 rileyroy

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Posted 23 August 2018 - 05:49 PM

Great idea, but no mention of May and Moya. Do you not consider them part of the future?

#36 Riverbrian

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Posted 23 August 2018 - 06:37 PM

I'm a big fan of out of the box thinking. 

 

We are not going to win the world series. Try new concepts. 

 

Seth... You should start your own club. The "Piggyback" or "Dual Starter" Club. 

A Skeleton walks into a bar and says... "Give me a beer... And a mop".

 

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#37 DocBauer

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Posted 23 August 2018 - 08:18 PM

I absolutely love this idea! Player A can start, as stated, and player B comes in, again as stated. The next "start" you can flip-flop the two.

This provides a great opportunity for Gonsalves, Romero, Stewart etc, to stay in a routine, gain experience, and build towards 2019 and more traditional role. It's a lot better than coming up to maybe sit on the bench and maybe get an inning or two out of the pen as a reliever.

I agree that the second "starter" could feel uncomfortable coming in early and disrupting his routine if the initial starter should falter. But they could prepare themselves as necessary for their targeted inning, and a traditional reliever could come in to bridge the gap until that time.

I think this is the perfect way to approach September. We are playing for and auditioning for 2019. This is an ideal way to do so for these arms.
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#38 h2oface

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Posted 24 August 2018 - 02:23 AM

I love it!


#39 Kelly Vance

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Posted 24 August 2018 - 10:01 AM

 

I think it's a good idea. But, can you imagine how much more some of these pitchers will nitpick if they think they are only going 3 or 4 innings? Tell a guy 4 innings, and he might think he can now use 100 pitches over 4 innings. If piggybacking, I think I'd rather give them a pitch limit to incentivize efficiency. Then if one guy goes 5 innings on 70 pitches and another 4 innings on 50 pitches, then great! Bullpen would get a rest that day.

Its worse than that and starting pitchers who need to go 5 innings to claim a win would call it a ridiculous idea. Look at last night's game. Stew goes 4.2 innings and gives way to Buzz for 1 out in the 5th. He loses the ability to win the game as his first major league win. Do you really think this is going to catch on? I don't. 




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