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Article: Week in Review: Hitting a Stride

joe mauer jorge polanco ervin santana stephen gonsalves
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#21 T_J

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Posted 20 August 2018 - 12:22 PM

 

In what sense did the FO "botch" the offseason? They compelled ownership to boost payroll beyond its comfort zone. They paid little for Lynn or Duke and got prospects back for them at the deadline. Odorizzi trade was fine. Reed and Morrison have been busts but hard to anticipate that. Those moves certainly don't constrict them going forward to the extent a Darvish signing.

 

 

 

They seemed to pull off an Oakland type off season finding players that teams might need during the season that they could flip if they were not in contention. The fact that they did end up getting some potential in the returns on the trades should be proof enough that the guys they grabbed were good pick-ups.

 

I'm not ready to call the Reed signing a bust. He was good at the start of the season. I'm betting he's been playing hurt. Morrison signing seemed more hopeful. I did like it at the time though last I checked, I'm not paid fat stacks of Twins cash to me these decisions. 

 

I love these Week in Reviews! 


#22 yarnivek1972

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Posted 20 August 2018 - 12:31 PM

I’m not so sure Gibson’s going to get a big payday after next year, even if he does well. It might serve him to take what he can get now.

Ask yourself how he stacks up with Lance Lynn, prior to this year. IMO roughly the same. One could argue Lynn was better. Gibson will be 1 1/2 years older after the 2019 season than Lynn was after 2017.

#23 USAFChief

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Posted 20 August 2018 - 12:35 PM

 

 

 

I love these Week in Reviews! 

Concur!

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#24 caninatl04

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Posted 20 August 2018 - 01:42 PM

Depth is nice, and I really like ours, but is it enough to withstand a Gibson and Odorizzi trade in the offseason???


I’m confused. Why would they trade or release Gibson? His arbitration number will be high, much well below a comparable salary for a free agent starter. I believe, despite years of doubt, that Gibson is a legit #3.

#25 yarnivek1972

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Posted 20 August 2018 - 01:52 PM

fwiw, Gibson ranks 11th in the AL for pitchers in terms of bWAR. I know there have been plenty of discussions about what exactly it means to be an ace, or a # 2, etc. Just throwing it out there.

btw, the Indians have 4 in the top 10. Which really tells you how bad their bullpen has been because their offense is also one of the league’s best.
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#26 peterb18

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Posted 20 August 2018 - 01:52 PM

Finally we have Gonsalves, good or bad, he deserves this.We have a lot of questionable starters and it seems there is no faith in our minor league relievers so maybe we have Odorizzi and Stewart in the pen.  
 
Send down Field, bring up Wade.Move the pieces around until we have the team we want.Thanks Joe for a fun career - not great, but very good.Time to move on.  
 
And, by the way, Romero deserves to rejoin this rotation.Lets get next year in place.


I would classify Joe’s career as better than very good. Very close to hall of fame and close to greatness. Could be in Tony Olivia catagory.

#27 Hosken Bombo Disco

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Posted 20 August 2018 - 03:36 PM

Bottom line is that nothing they did would've offset the massive decline from the Twins' internal core. Last year the combo of Erv/Buxton/Dozier/Sano produced 13.7 WAR, this year they have produced 0.7. Not sure how you can hold management accountable for that.

Those four guys weren't acquired in the offseason. Other guys took steps forward. And giving the internal core a chance to play the full season, not 63% of it.
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#28 ChrisKnutson

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Posted 20 August 2018 - 04:54 PM

I’m confused. Why would they trade or release Gibson? His arbitration number will be high, much well below a comparable salary for a free agent starter. I believe, despite years of doubt, that Gibson is a legit #3.


Trust me, I believe in Gibby’s newfound success just as much as you do, but overpaying to keep him around past 2020 would be a huge and very unnecessary risk.

Like it or not, it’s probably for the best that we sell high on someone who”ll likely chase the $$$, and leave MN (via free agency) anyways.

#29 Riverbrian

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Posted 20 August 2018 - 08:17 PM

 

Trust me, I believe in Gibby’s newfound success just as much as you do, but overpaying to keep him around past 2020 would be a huge and very unnecessary risk.

Like it or not, it’s probably for the best that we sell high on someone who”ll likely chase the $$$, and leave MN (via free agency) anyways.

 

What you are saying has logic. 

 

However... the team that will pay the worthwhile price to acquire Gibson with a year left in free agency is a team that believes it is a contender. The White Sox are not going to pay the worthwhile price. 

 

Therefore... if the Twins consider themselves a contender in 2019... they should keep Gibson. 

 

If they don't consider themselves contenders... well yeah... trade him and Rosario. Sell high and let's load up for the next wave. 

 

Personally, I think this team can contend and would be flat out exhausted if the front office decided to rebuild. 

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#30 ChrisKnutson

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Posted 20 August 2018 - 09:10 PM

What you are saying has logic.

However... the team that will pay the worthwhile price to acquire Gibson with a year left in free agency is a team that believes it is a contender. The White Sox are not going to pay the worthwhile price.

Therefore... if the Twins consider themselves a contender in 2019... they should keep Gibson.

If they don't consider themselves contenders... well yeah... trade him and Rosario. Sell high and let's load up for the next wave.

Personally, I think this team can contend and would be flat out exhausted if the front office decided to rebuild.

“Rebuild” is such a vague and loosely used term, but yes, I do agree to the idea that we shouldn’t rebuild. Although that doesn’t mean we should be against “(re)building towards the immediate future.”

The best example I can think of is the Chris Archer deal.

Edited by ChrisKnutson, 20 August 2018 - 09:12 PM.


#31 Riverbrian

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Posted 20 August 2018 - 09:53 PM

 

“Rebuild” is such a vague and loosely used term, but yes, I do agree to the idea that we shouldn’t rebuild. Although that doesn’t mean we should be against “(re)building towards the immediate future.”

The best example I can think of is the Chris Archer deal.

 

Archer came with another year of control plus two option years so it's a much different price tag. 

 

Gibson won't fetch Meadows, Glasnow and Baz. 

 

Gibson gets you maybe one of the young Atlanta arms.... Maybe and I'm guessing of course. 

 

So now... I'm not sure what you accomplish for next year. 

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#32 USAFChief

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Posted 20 August 2018 - 09:57 PM

I think you keep Gibson, and try to contend in 2019.

If needed, he can be dealt next July for probably the same price.
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#33 DocBauer

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Posted 21 August 2018 - 01:43 AM

OK, so once again we are talking 2019 as we will again, and again, and yet again. And that's OK, it why we are here.

Berrios is quality on the cusp of being a true #1. If he stubs his toe, he's an excellent #2. Like the love for Gibson, still frustrated for those who don't look at reality. Poor "rookie" season coming back from TJ and getting a late look that didn't go so well. Really good/solid season his first full season and an even better season despite W/L his second year. Improved in virtually every category! The whole team stunk in 2016, and so did he first half of 2017. Then the light came on and he's been quality since.

Pineda may or may not come all the way back in 2019. But it's a decent bet, and he's looked good in early returns before his ML debut this season. Career 4.05ERA/ 9.09K per 9/ .249AVG/ 1.19WhIP. Who wouldn't take that for your potential #3 SP?

The ugly word of potential, but Romero could be better than Berrios before 2019 is done. Gonsalves, despite a poor first performance, could be better than Mejia. And Thorpe could be better than either of them. Odorizzi is OK as a 4th starter, way better than most as a 5th SP.

But we need these guys in the rotation not only for their ability and potential, but to also convince Odorizzi to look at his career numbers and his potential for the next 5-7 years what he could accomplish as a high leverage set up man or closer. Because his stuff plays so well there!
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#34 diehardtwinsfan

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Posted 21 August 2018 - 05:46 AM

I wouldn't be surprised if Odorizzi was traded this offseason... i guess that depends on how the FO views guys like Gonsalves, Mejia, Stewart, Romero etc. There's too many of them and not enough spots. Guys like Mejia and May are out of options as well.

 

I think trading Gibson woudl be a mistake. Extending him (depending on the length) might not be a bad option, but that one is fraught with risks too (see Hughes, Phil). If he was willing to go for a 3 year deal, I'd probably do it.  


#35 ChrisKnutson

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Posted 21 August 2018 - 06:49 AM

Archer came with another year of control plus two option years so it's a much different price tag. 
 
Gibson won't fetch Meadows, Glasnow and Baz. 
 
Gibson gets you maybe one of the young Atlanta arms.... Maybe and I'm guessing of course. 
 
So now... I'm not sure what you accomplish for next year.


Yeah, my bad, the Lynn/Austin deal probably would’ve been the better example.

Then again, I could see a “rejuvenated” Sano bringing back an Archer-like return.

#36 caninatl04

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Posted 22 August 2018 - 10:56 AM

 

Trust me, I believe in Gibby’s newfound success just as much as you do, but overpaying to keep him around past 2020 would be a huge and very unnecessary risk.

Like it or not, it’s probably for the best that we sell high on someone who”ll likely chase the $$$, and leave MN (via free agency) anyways.

I agree with what you wrote.I was just thinking about 2019.But beyond that, your points are well taken

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#37 carlito_b

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Posted 24 August 2018 - 05:17 PM

in regards to mike piazza joe mauer has three batting titles and mvp plus gold gloves piazza does not have that resume .. more homers thats all piazza has over joe. joe also much better defender



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