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Mackey: Twins lineup doing well without Span

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#1 Parker Hageman

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Posted 09 September 2012 - 09:54 PM

1500ESPN's Phil Mackey presented a compelling case for why the Twins will look to trade center fielder Denard Span this offseason. In addition to the current playing situation with the emergence of Ben Revere and the need for starting pitching, I'm told that the relationship between the outfielder and the manager is not all duckies and bunnies.

It will be interesting to see how this plays out this winter.

#2 greengoblinrulz

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Posted 09 September 2012 - 10:01 PM

They havent been using this OF as Willy isnt playin the OF....its been Doumit & Mastro. Gardy has always talked about how he loves defense, but he's always managed the opposite. As long as you catch the balls you get to, he could care less about any lack of range at any position.

#3 clutterheart

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Posted 09 September 2012 - 10:48 PM

, I'm told that the relationship between the outfielder and the manager is not all duckies and bunnies.

.


What?!?

Please elaborate.

You can't just throw that out there. You don't have to divulge your sources but it would be great to hear more on that nugget you dropped.

#4 beckmt

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Posted 09 September 2012 - 11:05 PM

I think this might come from Span not telling the medical staff or the manager how much he was hurt after the dive he took in August. It will be interesting to see how much he is used when he comes back. That being said, he should be used all the time and showcased for a winter trade, if he does not come back in time, it would almost have to be a spring training trade to get full value for him.

#5 Shane Wahl

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Posted 09 September 2012 - 11:54 PM

The lineup was at its best with Span, Revere, Mauer, Willingham, Morneau, Doumit, Plouffe, Dozier, Carroll. There is no disputing that.

#6 Highabove

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Posted 10 September 2012 - 01:25 AM

, I'm told that the relationship between the outfielder and the manager is not all duckies and bunnies.

.


What?!?

Please elaborate.

You can't just throw that out there. You don't have to divulge your sources but it would be great to hear more on that nugget you dropped.


Last week, Jim Souhan stated on 1500 that the Twins were getting fed up with Span. Not surprisingly, Souhan did not give his source.
From time to time, the Twins have used Souhan as a back channel attack Dog.

#7 stringer bell

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Posted 10 September 2012 - 06:51 AM

Span is a good ballplayer and a bit better leadoff guy than Revere overall, but losing him in place of Revere is a minor dropoff. There is a replacement on the team (Revere) and more replacements in the pipeline. Trading Span is the lowest risk option in an attempt to get pitching for 2013 and beyond.

#8 Winston Smith

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Posted 10 September 2012 - 07:24 AM

Lets hope we hear more about the Twins being "fed up" so they can drive his trade value down. They really need to hire a good used car salesman to talk about these guys they might trade.

#9 kab21

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Posted 10 September 2012 - 07:58 AM

Span is a good ballplayer and a bit better leadoff guy than Revere overall, but losing him in place of Revere is a minor dropoff. There is a replacement on the team (Revere) and more replacements in the pipeline. Trading Span is the lowest risk option in an attempt to get pitching for 2013 and beyond.


The problem with trading Span is that he's had two straight injury riddled seasons and I wouldn't count on getting a lot back. We're certainly not getting a good starter back. The problem is that this might be the Twins way of saying that they are choosing to move Span and they sell low in the offseason to do it.

#10 Rosterman

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Posted 10 September 2012 - 08:44 AM

This trade deadline was the time to move Span, sadly, probably packaged with another player or two to really drive up value at the moment. Now, you compete against free agents, both great and adequate. And being injured again, although it is keeping him from plummeting his average like ti did lat season, raises questions. The Twins would probably be better served with more punch than speed in two of the outfield spots, and leav
ing the punchless middle infield intact.
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#11 Shane Wahl

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Posted 10 September 2012 - 08:46 AM

I am not totally comfortable with Revere being a true replacement. That average has to be higher than .300 if he is going to be a leadoff batter. For the millionth time, if I knew that Gardy would move Mauer up to the 2nd spot in the lineup instead of putting Carroll, Escobar, et al. there, I would be fine with trading Span.

Still seems that the most obvious move is trading Morneau for pitching. Very little if any drop in defense, and likely only some drop in power.

#12 stringer bell

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Posted 10 September 2012 - 09:10 AM

I am not totally comfortable with Revere being a true replacement. That average has to be higher than .300 if he is going to be a leadoff batter. For the millionth time, if I knew that Gardy would move Mauer up to the 2nd spot in the lineup instead of putting Carroll, Escobar, et al. there, I would be fine with trading Span.

Still seems that the most obvious move is trading Morneau for pitching. Very little if any drop in defense, and likely only some drop in power.

I think there is a bigger risk with moving Morneau. He has been mostly healthy, and he's over .800 in OPS--pretty hard numbers to replace. The nominal replacement is Parmelee who, if he hits all year like he has the last two Septembers, would be fine. I don't think I would consider Parm as much proven as Revere is. Morneau could put up boxcar numbers next year. I am not convinced that he will, but there certainly has been improvement over the course of this year. Finally, what the Twins really lack offensively is power. Moving Morneau would remove one of their top power threats.

#13 stringer bell

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Posted 10 September 2012 - 09:13 AM

Span is a good ballplayer and a bit better leadoff guy than Revere overall, but losing him in place of Revere is a minor dropoff. There is a replacement on the team (Revere) and more replacements in the pipeline. Trading Span is the lowest risk option in an attempt to get pitching for 2013 and beyond.


The problem with trading Span is that he's had two straight injury riddled seasons and I wouldn't count on getting a lot back. We're certainly not getting a good starter back. The problem is that this might be the Twins way of saying that they are choosing to move Span and they sell low in the offseason to do it.

I wouldn't consider Span's 2012 "injury riddled". He missed 9 games with an injury and will miss 15 more days before he returns. It is absolutely in the Twins' best interests to play Span the rest of the year and bring his value up.

#14 Shane Wahl

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Posted 10 September 2012 - 09:20 AM

By the way, rotating 7 (Willingham,Span, Revere, Morneau, Doumit, Parmelee, and Mauer) guys in 6 spots is not totally difficult, esp. if Willingham moves to right field, primarily. Always having one of them available on the bench would be nice, actually.

Signing two FA good SP pitchers for $25 million a year total would be one way to get around trading anybody . . .

#15 mike wants wins

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Posted 10 September 2012 - 09:33 AM

given that Willingham is their largest free agent contract ever, and Ryan has said the free agent pitching market is thin, why would you expect them to sign two big time free agent pitchers? Has any team ever done that in one off season?

#16 kab21

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Posted 10 September 2012 - 10:05 AM

I wouldn't consider Span's 2012 "injury riddled". He missed 9 games with an injury and will miss 15 more days before he returns. It is absolutely in the Twins' best interests to play Span the rest of the year and bring his value up.


Perhaps injury riddled isn't correct but he's missed 32 games with an uncertain return date. This is certainly going to be considered by other GM's.

[COLOR=#333333]
Still seems that the most obvious move is trading Morneau for pitching. Very little if any drop in defense, and likely only some drop in power.[/COLOR]

I don't know what you expect to get from trading Morneau but it's not nearly what you expect.

#17 Twins Twerp

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Posted 10 September 2012 - 10:19 AM

Souhan is an idiot. I don't know why you would quote him considering that station is not listenable. If you listened to KFAN, or just PA, that is the real news. The other guys in town are just idiots. And they don't talk sports most of the time. I hate turning on a radio station and hearing talk about the Law or talk about pop culture. Why can't we just talk about the twins all day long, throw in some vikings, throw in ALOT of Lynx talk, sprinkle in some Rubio. Boom you've got a full show. Instead we have top 10 lists related to stupid things people do. Get on another station. Minnesota radio is the WORST...except for PA

#18 SpiritofVodkaDave

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Posted 10 September 2012 - 10:25 AM

I am not totally comfortable with Revere being a true replacement. That average has to be higher than .300 if he is going to be a leadoff batter. For the millionth time, if I knew that Gardy would move Mauer up to the 2nd spot in the lineup instead of putting Carroll, Escobar, et al. there, I would be fine with trading Span.

Still seems that the most obvious move is trading Morneau for pitching. Very little if any drop in defense, and likely only some drop in power.

Revere will be a decent stop gap at worst, Hicks should be ready to man CF within a year/1.5 years.

#19 JB_Iowa

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Posted 10 September 2012 - 11:05 AM

Lets hope we hear more about the Twins being "fed up" so they can drive his trade value down. They really need to hire a good used car salesman to talk about these guys they might trade.


This.

They've seemingly been poised to trade Span for more than a year. Never got it done. And NOW we're starting to hear rumors that the team is disgruntled with him -- when he still has several years and an option year left on his contract?

How does that make ANY sense at all?

#20 TK10

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Posted 10 September 2012 - 11:34 AM

PA is, by a mile, the most vile and vomit-inducing cretin to ever be given control of the airwaves. He's an empty-headed jock-sniffer of the highest order.

#21 Highabove

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Posted 10 September 2012 - 12:12 PM

Souhan is an idiot. I don't know why you would quote him considering that station is not listenable. If you listened to KFAN, or just PA, that is the real news. The other guys in town are just idiots. And they don't talk sports most of the time. I hate turning on a radio station and hearing talk about the Law or talk about pop culture. Why can't we just talk about the twins all day long, throw in some vikings, throw in ALOT of Lynx talk, sprinkle in some Rubio. Boom you've got a full show. Instead we have top 10 lists related to stupid things people do. Get on another station. Minnesota radio is the WORST...except for PA


Jim Souhan probably started the (Twins angry at Span talk) That is why I cited him.

Edited by Highabove, 10 September 2012 - 12:43 PM.


#22 Brock Beauchamp

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Posted 10 September 2012 - 12:28 PM

The rules of TD clearly state that no personal insults are to be leveled at Twins players, the front office, or journalists. There are multiple instances of it in this thread. The next ones to do it will be facing a 3 day ban.

#23 Twins Twerp

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Posted 10 September 2012 - 01:41 PM

PA is, by a mile, the most vile and vomit-inducing cretin to ever be given control of the airwaves. He's an empty-headed jock-sniffer of the highest order.


Yikes, tell me how you really feel. I am going to have to disagree. I think he is funny, savy, and smart in his sports takes. He always keeps things in perspective is always positive. His speaking manurisms are hilarious. 50 shades of PA? Are you serious, I laugh my bum off when I hear that stuff. The guys at 1500, and the afternoon guys on KFAN, just not that good. I am a big non fan of common. If you said this poop tastes bad, he would say this poop taste good. He is a poor man's Colin Cowherd. Guerro is a little more stomachable, but not much. And 1500, Ruesse, has such a winey, icky voice. I just can't listen. I do rarely, like when my choice is death or 1500, I pick 1500 because my life is worth living and the show is better than death, barely.

#24 Twins Twerp

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Posted 10 September 2012 - 01:42 PM

I apologize for calling 1500 idiots. They clearly are not, they are getting paid to do what we do all day, they live the life. I apologize for calling them idiots.

#25 Brock Beauchamp

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Posted 10 September 2012 - 01:53 PM

I apologize for calling 1500 idiots. They clearly are not, they are getting paid to do what we do all day, they live the life. I apologize for calling them idiots.


Don't worry about it too much, just try to tone it down in future posts. It's a fine line to cross but we try to make sure that public personalities don't have too many insults leveled at this in this forum. I know I've been guilty of it in the past so it's something I have to work on as well.

#26 Oxtung

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Posted 10 September 2012 - 03:03 PM

given that Willingham is their largest free agent contract ever, and Ryan has said the free agent pitching market is thin, why would you expect them to sign two big time free agent pitchers? Has any team ever done that in one off season?


Of course Ryan never actually said that.... The Twin's also have never been in the position their in now. Money to spend, no long term contracts in the pitching staff, terrible rotation. Now maybe Ryan signs some decent starters and maybe he doesn't but you can't criticize him for things he didn't actually say and hasn't actually done.

#27 nicksaviking

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Posted 10 September 2012 - 03:29 PM

PA may be a jock sniffer, but his brown nosing ways get the players to open up to him. You'd learn more about Span and his attitudes toward the club and trade situations listening to him and PA's show once weekly than you'll learn from Souhan's 2nd or 3rd hand gossip.

Someone above mentioned that Hick's is actually Span's eventual replacement, thus we should not be compraing the merits of Revere's defense over Span's. I think it goes further than that, as offensively Hicks also may be a more projectable replacement. He is a very strong OBP guy, as Span was during his best years. If Hicks' AA numbers translate at all to the MLB level, I would think his high OBP would cause the manager to put him ahead of Revere in the lineup.

#28 mike wants wins

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Posted 10 September 2012 - 03:29 PM

According to an article written by souhan he said that. Has any MLB team signed their top two pitchers in one free agent year, ever?

#29 mike wants wins

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Posted 10 September 2012 - 03:36 PM

Maybe I should just stop, we have last year, and years prior to show his philosophy. I see no evidence it has changed. Why should I think it has changed in your opinion?

#30 SweetOne69

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Posted 10 September 2012 - 03:49 PM

According to an article written by souhan he said that. Has any MLB team signed their top two pitchers in one free agent year, ever?


Actually, according to Souhan, Ryan said the "Elite FA Pitching Market is thin"