Jump to content

Providing independent coverage of the Minnesota Twins.
Subscribe to Twins Daily Email
Photo

Article: CLE 5, MIN 2: Cleveland Prevails on Lindor Walk-Off Homer

miguel sano trevor hildneberger max kepler
  • Please log in to reply
76 replies to this topic

#41 spycake

spycake

    Senior Member

  • Members
  • 14,168 posts

Posted 09 August 2018 - 09:05 AM

Molitor's refusal to actually try to build up the young guys continues to irk me.


I agree with you about playing Adrianza over Forsythe, but worth noting that Adrianza is almost 29 years old (birthday on August 21, which my wall calendar says is also Senior Citizens Day :) ).

So he's not that young, but he's definitely a bigger part of our future than Forsythe.
  • wsnydes likes this

#42 ThejacKmp

ThejacKmp

    Wing Commander

  • Members
  • 2,096 posts

Posted 09 August 2018 - 09:09 AM

 

The Twins haven’t won a playoff game in 16 years. If rebuilding takes that long, you’re doing something wrong.

What indications are there that this FO is committed to rebuilding? If, as you say, the Twins won’t be on the upswing for two more years, why wouldn’t they have traded Kyle Gibson - who possibly could have brought in a blue chip prospect to build around? Why are Matt Belisle, Fernando Rodney, Logan Morrison, Logan Forsythe, Jake Odorizzi and Robbie Grossman still rostered and playing (until injury sidelined some of them)?

None of them figure to be around in 2020. Rebuilding to me (and to most) means tearing it all down and starting at square one. There is zero indication that this FO is committed to that nor has there been since they were hired. Indeed, their plan seems to be to tread water and be satisfied being borderline competitive in a weak division.

 

They're in year 4 or 5 of the rebuild. We all forget they've been competitive in two of the last four years and have the #6 farm system. When I say upswing, I mean when the next wave of talent comes up. People get too focused on the here and now.

 

The Twins have good pieces now and good pieces coming up. Many organizations (not in big markets maybe) would be very happy to be in the Twins position. Glass is 3/4 full folks.

  • Puckett34 and SwainZag like this

#43 diehardtwinsfan

diehardtwinsfan

    G.O.A.T.

  • Twins Mods
  • 12,494 posts
  • Locationthe charred ruins of BYTO

Posted 09 August 2018 - 09:21 AM

 

If you are saying that “if Buxton doesn’t hit next year”. Rosters will be set and it will be much harder to find one that does. I think the Twins should be looking right now and into the off season for someone who can man the position in case “Buxton doesn’t hit next year”.

Interesting indeed.

 

I would plan on Buxton starting next season in the minors and try and find someone needing1 year make good contract (if one is out there). 

  • Riverbrian likes this

#44 Nine of twelve

Nine of twelve

    Rochester Red Wings

  • Members
  • 1,144 posts
  • LocationEarth, for the time being

Posted 09 August 2018 - 09:51 AM

 

Hildenberger is the latest Molitor overuse casualty.

I agree with this which is why I understand the complaints about it. But when it comes to a certain long-tenured player whenever he gets a day off the complaints seem to be that he is underused. Seems like a disconnect to me.


#45 jkcarew

jkcarew

    Chattanooga Lookouts

  • Members
  • 639 posts

Posted 09 August 2018 - 09:53 AM

I could not care less whether we win or lose these games.The W/L's at this point are less relevant than those of the minor league teams.I'm interested in seeing the individual performances of those that are likely to be in 2019 plans.

 

To that end, I thought a few things were noteworthy.May looked encouraging.So did Sano.Two things happened in the 9th inning Sano at-bat that almost never happen with Sano.He was both looking for the breaking ball away ahead in the count...usually only looking FB in that situation...AND he seemed to consciously try to hit it to the right side of center.To me, he needs to take advantage of the low leverage games/at-bats remaining and keep working on this stuff and not worry about the HR totals, etc....almost as if he's still in the minors.

 

Also, Garver was awful behind the plate again.I don't care (for now)...needs to play more.

 

 


#46 jkcarew

jkcarew

    Chattanooga Lookouts

  • Members
  • 639 posts

Posted 09 August 2018 - 09:56 AM

 

I agree with this which is why I understand the complaints about it. But when it comes to a certain long-tenured player whenever he gets a day off the complaints seem to be that he is underused. Seems like a disconnect to me.

Good point.I never thought of it this way.We probably have 'certain long-tenured player' on a step-count.


#47 Mike Sixel

Mike Sixel

    Now living in Oregon

  • Members
  • 27,007 posts

Posted 09 August 2018 - 10:11 AM

 

I agree with this which is why I understand the complaints about it. But when it comes to a certain long-tenured player whenever he gets a day off the complaints seem to be that he is underused. Seems like a disconnect to me.

 

It's kind of hard to overuse a hitter, compared to a pitcher. They are two different animals. Most hitters don't need time off, if they do, that handicaps the teams. Pitchers? totally different, they need time off.

  • USAFChief likes this

There's always next year, or the next, or maybe by the time I'm Chief's age, I guess....


#48 USAFChief

USAFChief

    Anyone got a smoke?

  • Twins Mods
  • 21,921 posts
  • LocationTucson

Posted 09 August 2018 - 10:24 AM

 

I agree with this which is why I understand the complaints about it. But when it comes to a certain long-tenured player whenever he gets a day off the complaints seem to be that he is underused. Seems like a disconnect to me.

As Mike noted, they are not remotely comparable situations.

 

 

Cutting my carbs...with a pizza slicer.


#49 wsnydes

wsnydes

    Winter baseball enthusiast

  • Members
  • 3,402 posts
  • LocationApple Valley

Posted 09 August 2018 - 10:26 AM

 

I would say because Adrianza is the only viable backup for all the infield positions, so he is being used in a utilityrole.Let's be honest with ourselves here, Adrianza will be 29 next week and we know what he is.A light hitting, glove first infielder.If he were 23 and shown signs with his bat at any level, I would get this gripe, but eh...

Don't get me wrong, I'm not losing sleep over it. It's not as though Adrianza couldn't slide anywhere else on the infield if an injury came up during a game if he started. It's not like he's DH'ing. I just don't see much use in playing Forsythe since it's very unlikely that he'll be back.  

"Sometimes you win, sometimes you lose, sometimes it rains." - Meat 


#50 wsnydes

wsnydes

    Winter baseball enthusiast

  • Members
  • 3,402 posts
  • LocationApple Valley

Posted 09 August 2018 - 10:28 AM

 

I agree with you about playing Adrianza over Forsythe, but worth noting that Adrianza is almost 29 years old (birthday on August 21, which my wall calendar says is also Senior Citizens Day :) ).

So he's not that young, but he's definitely a bigger part of our future than Forsythe.

Right, and I get that he's not all that young. Since he's much more likely to be here next season, it would stand to reason that he should see more action. I'm not losing sleep over it, I just see it as Molitor playing another veteran over somebody who could use the playing time more for future considerations.

"Sometimes you win, sometimes you lose, sometimes it rains." - Meat 


#51 yarnivek1972

yarnivek1972

    Minnesota Twins

  • Members
  • 4,381 posts

Posted 09 August 2018 - 10:35 AM

For all we know the FO could be intending to bring Forsythe back.

#52 spycake

spycake

    Senior Member

  • Members
  • 14,168 posts

Posted 09 August 2018 - 10:52 AM

For all we know the FO could be intending to bring Forsythe back.


I hope not. There will be quite a few infield alternatives on the free agent market, and our lack of financial commitments suggests we don't have to go cheap on the position.

#53 SwainZag

SwainZag

    Member

  • Members
  • 1,897 posts
  • LocationMontana

Posted 09 August 2018 - 11:42 AM

 

I hope not. There will be quite a few infield alternatives on the free agent market, and our lack of financial commitments suggests we don't have to go cheap on the position.

 

On the other hand Forsythe is a year and a half removed from a 3.4 WAR season.I know he was brutal with the stick in LA this season, if they don't think Gordon will be ready next year (not looking good) I could see extending a 1 year "prove it" type deal for Forsythe.He's only 31 and the Twins do have a lot of depth up the middle in the minors.I would be surprised to see them going to free agency and signing a multi year deal to a 2B/SS this offseason.


#54 spycake

spycake

    Senior Member

  • Members
  • 14,168 posts

Posted 09 August 2018 - 11:53 AM

On the other hand Forsythe is a year and a half removed from a 3.4 WAR season. I know he was brutal with the stick in LA this season, if they don't think Gordon will be ready next year (not looking good) I could see extending a 1 year "prove it" type deal for Forsythe. He's only 31 and the Twins do have a lot of depth up the middle in the minors. I would be surprised to see them going to free agency and signing a multi year deal to a 2B/SS this offseason.


After last year's slow market, and this year's large crop of pending FA infielders, there is a good chance they don't have to make a multi-year offer to get a better player than Forsythe.

https://www.mlbtrade...ree-agents.html
  • Mike Sixel likes this

#55 Riverbrian

Riverbrian

    Goofy Moderator

  • Twins Mods
  • 19,678 posts
  • LocationGrand Forks, ND

Posted 09 August 2018 - 12:58 PM

 

I would plan on Buxton starting next season in the minors and try and find someone needing1 year make good contract (if one is out there). 

 

You will get no argument from me. 

 

My thoughts on Buxton are simple. I think he has the potential to be one of the best players in baseball but he is currently closer to one of the worst players in baseball. 

 

I will not count on him until he proves he can be counted on.

 

He earns his job from here forward.

 

I'm just plain tired of absorbing poor CF play in the name of "he's gonna be". 

  • Mike Sixel likes this

A Skeleton walks into a bar and says... "Give me a beer... And a mop".

 

President of the "Baseball Player Positional Flexibility" Club 

Founded 4-23-16 

 

Strike Zone Automation Advocate


#56 Carole Keller

Carole Keller

    It’s all in the eyes of the beholder.

  • Twins Mods
  • 21,276 posts

Posted 09 August 2018 - 01:03 PM

 

It's kind of hard to overuse a hitter, compared to a pitcher. They are two different animals. Most hitters don't need time off, if they do, that handicaps the teams. Pitchers? totally different, they need time off.

I get that but what it all boils down to for me is the manager, how and when he uses certain players. How he manages the BP, the lineups, the players. It's not anyone's decision but his. Period. And if you are giving leeway to some players to make that call, that's on the manager and the FO for allowing it.

“May we teach our children that speaking out without the fear of retribution is our culture’s new north star.” ~Laura Dern
 


#57 Carole Keller

Carole Keller

    It’s all in the eyes of the beholder.

  • Twins Mods
  • 21,276 posts

Posted 09 August 2018 - 01:05 PM

 

 

As Mike noted, they are not remotely comparable situations.

Yes, they are ... because it's the manager's decision who plays when, where, how. It's on him. And if he's not making those calls, why isn't he? It's his job! Giving deferenceto some players' 'needs' over others is not the way to manage.

  • ewen21 likes this

“May we teach our children that speaking out without the fear of retribution is our culture’s new north star.” ~Laura Dern
 


#58 Riverbrian

Riverbrian

    Goofy Moderator

  • Twins Mods
  • 19,678 posts
  • LocationGrand Forks, ND

Posted 09 August 2018 - 01:16 PM

 

Concur; especially with the latter.

 

#MolitorNeedsToGo

 

I'm really trying to stay composed. 

 

I am already at peace with the knowledge that we won't win the World Series this year and don't care about W's and L's at this moment in time as a result.  

 

But my frustration is starting to get the better of me because when I consider 2019.I don't understand what purpose Forsythe and Morrison are serving the franchise and therefore don't understand why they are playing every day. 

 

I can justify Drake if I squint my eyes but I can't justify Forsythe, Morrison and of course Belisle. 

 

So yeah... I'm getting ready to join your chorus. 

 

  • Carole Keller and Mike Sixel like this

A Skeleton walks into a bar and says... "Give me a beer... And a mop".

 

President of the "Baseball Player Positional Flexibility" Club 

Founded 4-23-16 

 

Strike Zone Automation Advocate


#59 Carole Keller

Carole Keller

    It’s all in the eyes of the beholder.

  • Twins Mods
  • 21,276 posts

Posted 09 August 2018 - 01:37 PM

 

I'm really trying to stay composed. 

 

I am already at peace with the knowledge that we won't win the World Series this year and don't care about W's and L's at this moment in time as a result.  

 

But my frustration is starting to get the better of me because when I consider 2019.I don't understand what purpose Forsythe and Morrison are serving the franchise and therefore don't understand why they are playing every day. 

 

I can justify Drake if I squint my eyes but I can't justify Forsythe, Morrison and of course Belisle. 

 

So yeah... I'm getting ready to join your chorus. 

This whole season I've found roster management frustrating ... both from the FO with call ups and moves and with the manager in his in-game management of the roster given him.

  • Mike Sixel and Riverbrian like this

“May we teach our children that speaking out without the fear of retribution is our culture’s new north star.” ~Laura Dern
 


#60 ewen21

ewen21

    Chattanooga Lookouts

  • Members
  • 793 posts

Posted 09 August 2018 - 03:10 PM

 

1.) Ummm, have you met the Marlins? The Padres? The Reds? The Twins have their warts but you're just being negative, per usual.

 

2) The 2016 #1 pick is Mickey Moniak and he's with the Phillies, not hitting in High A ball. I guess the Twins could try to trade for him but he's not that great a prospect so not sure why they world.

 

3.) The Braves were awful for years. They now are on the upswing. That's the way things go. In two years the Twins will be on the upswing hopefully. Not sure how you want the Twins to somehow fast forward time. Rebuilding takes time.

When you to have say we aren't as bad as the Reds, Marlins and Padres to find a sliver lining you are reaching.If this is "being positive" then I don't any part of it.The Twins need to make tough decisions and honestly assess what they need to do.I happen think they need to let go of both Molitor and Mauer after this season.It is time to move on into the next era.Needing local guys to sell the product is a Mickey Mouse approach.

 

 

Edited by ewen21, 09 August 2018 - 03:10 PM.




Also tagged with one or more of these keywords: miguel sano, trevor hildneberger, max kepler