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Is Development Still Broken?

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#41 wyowib

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Posted 07 August 2018 - 11:29 PM

 

We have had quite a few high draft picks and/or highly ranked prospects do either nothing or have ended up grossly underachieving with us. Do we really think there is no development problem?

I don't understand the correlation between the inability of the previous regime to develop talent (and they were completely inept in this regard based on history) and the perceived notion that the current administration continues to fail in this regard.Who knows if this FO can develop talent, but it is very obvious that they haven't been given time to prove anyone right or wrong.I do like that they are aggressive with promotions; Arraez, Kiriloff, Graterol, Rooker, Lewis, Miranda, Larnach, Jeffers, Enlow, Balazovic, and Jax are all players that have been aggressively promoted (I consider them being aggressively promoted because they all have some combination of being in their 1st full year (or less) of pro ball, youth for level of competition, and/or coming off of recent serious injury).We'll see, in time, if it works, but I'm encouraged by the process and recent results. 

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#42 jimmer

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Posted 08 August 2018 - 05:23 AM

 

I don't understand the correlation between the inability of the previous regime to develop talent (and they were completely inept in this regard based on history) and the perceived notion that the current administration continues to fail in this regard.  

Well, I never correlated the two, so I hear ya.What I did say earlier is that it's probably unreasonable to believe the new FO could fix the problems of the old regime in so little time.Certainly, that included the development part of the equation.

Edited by jimmer, 08 August 2018 - 05:24 AM.

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#43 diehardtwinsfan

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Posted 08 August 2018 - 05:52 AM

 

I don't understand the correlation between the inability of the previous regime to develop talent (and they were completely inept in this regard based on history) and the perceived notion that the current administration continues to fail in this regard.Who knows if this FO can develop talent, but it is very obvious that they haven't been given time to prove anyone right or wrong.I do like that they are aggressive with promotions; Arraez, Kiriloff, Graterol, Rooker, Lewis, Miranda, Larnach, Jeffers, Enlow, Balazovic, and Jax are all players that have been aggressively promoted (I consider them being aggressively promoted because they all have some combination of being in their 1st full year (or less) of pro ball, youth for level of competition, and/or coming off of recent serious injury).We'll see, in time, if it works, but I'm encouraged by the process and recent results. 

I think development at least in the context of the previous front office (and I don't think they had a problem with identifying talent), was lacking in the pitching department more than anything. This FO was selected because of strong ties to orgs who were good at developing pitching. In that, though, I think time is a key piece here. I don't think that is something you fix by simply firing a few people and bringing a few more in. 

 

That said, we haven't seen quite the meltdowns at promotion to MLB in the last few years that we have a few years prior, and you have some anecdotal evidence in guys like Stewart that there seems to be a big difference in approach. I think the ultimate answer is whether or not some of that home grown pitching (and acquired pitching) can be impactful at the ML level. It will take a couple more years for us to see if that is the case. 

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#44 amjgt

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Posted 08 August 2018 - 08:02 AM

Perhaps a little uptick in Dozier’s performance can be expected with Machado hitting behind him instead of Morrison.
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#45 Doctor Wu

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Posted 08 August 2018 - 08:39 AM

Well, the impressive early returns on those players aside, I think the issue of the way the Twins "develop" players certainly is something that could be questioned. Just over the past decade or so, think about all the other players traded away or released who have thrived or played better after they left the Twins organization; everyone from Carlos Gomez, Danny Valencia, and Aaron Hicks to pitchers like Brian Duensing, Liam Hendriks, and Anthony Swarzak. And then, um, there was David Ortiz. Maybe I'm just imagining it, but it seems like those are just a few of many players who stock has risen after they've left the Twins organization.

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#46 yarnivek1972

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Posted 08 August 2018 - 10:02 AM

Not sure Duensing or Swarzak fit the description. Their numbers aren’t significantly different post Twins. The Twins simply chose not to retain them.

#47 gman

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Posted 08 August 2018 - 11:37 AM

With this SSS I would go with more psychological than development. A guy wants to prove something to his new team. He wants to prove something to his old team. His adrenaline is higher affecting his focus and energy. The teams he is facing don't have up to date reports on him (I put this last). Wait a month or more and see.

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#48 beckmt

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Posted 08 August 2018 - 01:36 PM

Twins seem to be treading water since the trades, so it may cut both ways.SSS is hard to tell.Talk to me in a month and will see how the Twins have faired against the better ball clubs (KC does not mean much).  


#49 twinsguy45

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Posted 08 August 2018 - 07:20 PM

 

I wasn't. He's a good pitcher.

 Since May22,after settling in from his no spring training episode, Lynn is:

76.2 IP, 65 H, 34BB(eh..) 73 K,3.17 ERA, and 7-4 record.

 

I haven't been able to understand the shock at getting a return.

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#50 diehardtwinsfan

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Posted 08 August 2018 - 07:41 PM

 

 Since May22,after settling in from his no spring training episode, Lynn is:

76.2 IP, 65 H, 34BB(eh..) 73 K,3.17 ERA, and 7-4 record.

 

I haven't been able to understand the shock at getting a return.

 

yeah, this... for a team looking for aguy that won't crap the bed every 5 starts and can generally keep them in the game... Lynn was a great fit. He certainly wasn't expensive for NY. Ultimately, that is good for our return too as we get a cost controlled guy with lots of service time left and some upside along with another minor leaguer with some upside. If Austin develops at all, this trade could be an absolute steal. 

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#51 Doomtints

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Posted 09 August 2018 - 09:16 AM

 

Twins seem to be treading water since the trades, so it may cut both ways.SSS is hard to tell.Talk to me in a month and will see how the Twins have faired against the better ball clubs (KC does not mean much).  

 

Weren't they treading water before the trades too?


#52 alarp33

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Posted 09 August 2018 - 09:45 AM

Is Development all the way back?

 

SSS Alert. Logan Forysthe with the Twins; .429/.500/.524

Logan Forsythe with the Dodgers;.207/.270/.290

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#53 amjgt

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Posted 09 August 2018 - 11:15 AM


#54 spycake

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Posted 09 August 2018 - 12:03 PM


With 6 K's!

.625 BABIP.

8 singles, 2 doubles.

#55 h2oface

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Posted 11 August 2018 - 02:51 AM

 

.......Who knows if this FO can develop talent, but it is very obvious that they haven't been given time to prove anyone right or wrong.I do like that they are aggressive with promotions; Arraez, Kiril(l)off, Graterol, Rooker, Lewis, Miranda, Larnach, Jeffers, Enlow, Balazovic, and Jax are all players that have been aggressively promoted (I consider them being aggressively promoted because they all have some combination of being in their 1st full year (or less) of pro ball, youth for level of competition, and/or coming off of recent serious injury).We'll see, in time, if it works, but I'm encouraged by the process and recent results. 

 

I don't know what Kirilloff and Lewis need to show to be aggressively promoted to AA Chattanooga immediately if not sooner. And Rooker to AAA. Or, they can just let Kirilloff and Lewis continue to eat up High A, and perhaps waste time, but age should not ever be a reason to hold back talent, as far as I am concerned.

Edited by h2oface, 11 August 2018 - 02:52 AM.

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#56 h2oface

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Posted 11 August 2018 - 02:54 AM

 

With 6 K's!

.625 BABIP.

8 singles, 2 doubles.

 

That's just the kind of hitter that should be batting cleanup, eh?<_< But singles and doubles are nice, and when your hot, your hot, and all hits these days are appreciated.

Edited by h2oface, 11 August 2018 - 03:49 AM.


#57 h2oface

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Posted 11 August 2018 - 02:58 AM

 

Perhaps a little uptick in Dozier’s performance can be expected with Machado hitting behind him instead of Morrison.

 

Except that Dozier has been in several slots, with Machado (who has been slumping and striking out a ton in the last 40 at bats.....) only following him twice. Starting August 1, 5th (with Bellinger following), 6th (Muncy), day off with Verlander pitching (he did come in defensively in the top of the 8th as a double switch and batted 9th in the bottom on the inning with Pederson following, and he still had to hit against Verlander and flew out), 5th (Puig), 5th (Muncy), Leadoff (Machado), 5th (Bellinger), Leadoff (Machado), and last night 4th (Bellinger). Those are all pretty dangerous hitters, though, and Bellinger has really heated up since the break, so your point is still the same, really. (I went to the 21-5 game, with Kershaw pitching).

 

 

Edited by h2oface, 11 August 2018 - 03:55 AM.


#58 ashburyjohn

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Posted 11 August 2018 - 08:17 AM

.625 BABIP.

Marvel's Domino has demonstrated that the ability to control probabilities to one's favor is not merely luck but a superpower.

 

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#59 ND-Fan

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Posted 11 August 2018 - 09:17 AM

I think the difference is that when you goin these trades your going to winning team and attitude is there that they are going to win. Also these new teams believe in you and your confidence goes up so again your on winning club. This I believe is important factor in club make up. This is the fault Ibelievethat Twins and this Front Office have is they have not believed in their players and they may say they do but their actions are quite different. Every year if they are not leading the division or in wild card race they have become sellers they start looking to the future. Players need to have support even when they are not where you thought they would be and need to stick with these players even when it doesn't make since. We heard again last night from Ervin Santana they haven't given up but management had already given up. You can't have that as a team and it just puts extra pressure on individual players to try and keep team winning and yourself performing instead just going out there and performing. I also now believe the last two years performance by this front office is going to be hard to attract front line free agents because these players want to play on winner and with front office that is willing to do that. 

 

I think the Twins front line guru's need to start doing some analytics on themselves what there actions may have on future of their club. I look at this club everyone of their young core is struggling and have gotten off track to where there future is in doubt. This happens a lot with young players but they need to as team get on top of this better especially when your philosophy is build with young talent. Falvey was know to have excellent working relationship with Francona this how the Cleveland was built for this current run. The formula looks the same here Molitor andhim but so far were not getting response he got in Cleveland. The big difference is Falvey is intotal charge and can't be always looking at creative ways to organize a team but has to look at team chemistry and moral of his team. I think were going through learning curve by this front office and how its effecting our players futures.


#60 howieramone2

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Posted 11 August 2018 - 10:48 AM

 

Well, the impressive early returns on those players aside, I think the issue of the way the Twins "develop" players certainly is something that could be questioned. Just over the past decade or so, think about all the other players traded away or released who have thrived or played better after they left the Twins organization; everyone from Carlos Gomez, Danny Valencia, and Aaron Hicks to pitchers like Brian Duensing, Liam Hendriks, and Anthony Swarzak. And then, um, there was David Ortiz. Maybe I'm just imagining it, but it seems like those are just a few of many players who stock has risen after they've left the Twins organization.

You know Ortiz left 15 years ago? I won't want any of those others.

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