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Is Development Still Broken?

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#21 Carole Keller

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Posted 07 August 2018 - 11:04 AM

Mod note: Stop the bickering ... if you don't like a thread and find it to be a 'joke' to you, it's simple, don't respond. And don't respond to the response, either.

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#22 Seth Stohs

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Posted 07 August 2018 - 11:05 AM

 

SSS alert: Everyone that was traded except Zach Duke is performing better with their new team than they did with the Twins.

Eduardo Escobar: 37 PA - .344/.378/.469 4 doubles 3 RBI

Brian Dozier: 18 PA - .400/.500/.1000 2 HR 7 RBI

Ryan Pressly: 3 appearances - 4.1 IP - 2.08 ERA - 5/0 K/BB

Lance Lynn: 2 appearances - 11.2 IP - 0.00 ERA - 14/1 K/BB

Rome wasn't built in a day, I realize. Is it fair to say development is still broken at One Twins Way?

 

Maybe or maybe not... but it wouldn't be because of this... 

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#23 Han Joelo

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Posted 07 August 2018 - 11:06 AM

Edit:  Ah, never mind.

 

Seriously, I (probably mis-)remember a couple of springs ago how Dozier, ____,____, and ???? were helping to integrate Park into the clubhouse by inviting him over to some ragers where they watched reruns of the Bachelor or something.  Imagine this post, hard-loss exchange from early May:

 

Lance Lynn:  "Man, that sucked.  Tomorrow's another day.  Who wants to go get a beer?"

 

Brian Dozier:  "Um, yeah, well actually, in this clubhouse, after a loss, we usually get together and watch old episodes of the Bachelor.  Nothing can blunt the sting of a loss quite like watching sincere love go unrequited."

 

Logan:  "The Bachelor?  Dude, I've got the complete series of the Chappelle Show.  Lance will bring the PBR."

 

Brian:  "Um, well we were going to watch at my house, and I'm pretty sure there is swearing and whatnot on Chappelle, so maybe not.  And don't worry about beer, my fridge is well-stocked with La Croix and Ginger Ale."

 

Lance: "You know, I'm pretty tired.  Think I'll go back to the hotel and try to spot naked chicks while I Google Earth the 29 other Major League cities."

 

Logan: "There's only like 25 brah.  Yeah, I'm just going to head back to the KOA myself.  Probably plink some chipmunks with my BB gun and then pass out in the back of the ol camper van."

 

Brian: "Well, the offer stands.  After losses, my wife makes a mean batch of Funeral Potatoes; you're always welcome."

 

 

Edited by Han Joelo, 07 August 2018 - 11:07 AM.

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#24 Han Joelo

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Posted 07 August 2018 - 11:08 AM

The moral of the story, then, is that 4 out of 5 Twins prefer hanging out at the KOA shooting BB guns to any other option.

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#25 yarnivek1972

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Posted 07 August 2018 - 02:31 PM

If they continue to do better, I would suspect it has more to do with being around better players or (especially for the pitchers) being put in a role more likely to help them succeed.

#26 Major Leauge Ready

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Posted 07 August 2018 - 02:47 PM

 

This game requires constant tweaking and coaching no matter your age. I don't agree these guys no longer need development. Otherwise Gibson would still be a sinker ball pitcher trying to induce ground balls.

 

None of them have had enough time with the new teams to implement any tweaks. They were traded and there has been an uptick in their performance. End of story. I seriously doubt there was any "development" done. The possible exception might be that the Dodger hitting coach said "hey Brian what's up with trying to pull every pitch on the outside edge of the strike zone."

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#27 h2oface

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Posted 07 August 2018 - 02:47 PM

 

SSS alert: Everyone that was traded except Zach Duke is performing better with their new team than they did with the Twins.

Eduardo Escobar: 37 PA - .344/.378/.469 4 doubles 3 RBI

Brian Dozier: 18 PA - .400/.500/.1000 2 HR 7 RBI

Ryan Pressly: 3 appearances - 4.1 IP - 2.08 ERA - 5/0 K/BB

Lance Lynn: 2 appearances - 11.2 IP - 0.00 ERA - 14/1 K/BB

Rome wasn't built in a day, I realize. Is it fair to say development is still broken at One Twins Way?

 

Pressly, in his first appearance with the Astros, was brought in in the top of the 7th to hold the fort, with Houston playing at home and trailing 2-1. Verlander was the pitcher of record. First batter he pitched to for Houston..... Rougned Odor.... slammed a solo homer. So some things are the same......


#28 jimmer

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Posted 07 August 2018 - 05:35 PM

We have had quite a few high draft picks and/or highly ranked prospects do either nothing or have ended up grossly underachieving with us. Do we really think there is no development problem?

Edited by jimmer, 07 August 2018 - 05:36 PM.

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#29 Blake

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Posted 07 August 2018 - 05:46 PM

Last season was a lot of fun for the players and the fans, but, the players have had to endure multiple 90+ loss seasons before the playoff team of last year.

 

Constantly losing wears on a person and it stands to reason that being able to put that atmosphere behind one would help a player to relax and have a better attitude and, perhaps, perform a bit better.

 

I won't be surprised if the players that were traded continue to do well. In fact, I wish them all the best, because they now have a solid chance at an extended post-season run.

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#30 LA VIkes Fan

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Posted 07 August 2018 - 05:56 PM

I think we forget how much better we all perform at work on a project where we're "winning" and everyone is excited. Lance Lynn's been good in the past and he's a lot more energized playing on a team with playoff and WS aspirations. Same for Dozier. I always expect a decent player who leaves a losing situation to play better when he gets to a winning clubhouse. The sad part is that we somehow lost that winning clubhouse feel this year and couldn't get it back. Combination of too many one year/expiring deals and leadership issues? Problem with the manager? Not sure the cause but it's a big part of the problem. 

Edited by LA VIkes Fan, 07 August 2018 - 05:57 PM.

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#31 Riverbrian

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Posted 07 August 2018 - 06:04 PM

 

SSS alert: Everyone that was traded except Zach Duke is performing better with their new team than they did with the Twins.

Eduardo Escobar: 37 PA - .344/.378/.469 4 doubles 3 RBI

Brian Dozier: 18 PA - .400/.500/.1000 2 HR 7 RBI

Ryan Pressly: 3 appearances - 4.1 IP - 2.08 ERA - 5/0 K/BB

Lance Lynn: 2 appearances - 11.2 IP - 0.00 ERA - 14/1 K/BB

Rome wasn't built in a day, I realize. Is it fair to say development is still broken at One Twins Way?

 

Van... I want you to know that I noticed the SSS immediately and understood that you understood.:)

 

I don't believe that the new teams were able to immediately fix development issues but I do believe that the Twins development model is broken because they are consistent in rewarding mediocre or below mediocre play which makes it possible to set the bar for immediate improvement extremely low. 

 

 

 

 

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#32 birdwatcher

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Posted 07 August 2018 - 06:35 PM

 

We have had quite a few high draft picks and/or highly ranked prospects do either nothing or have ended up grossly underachieving with us. Do we really think there is no development problem?

 

 

I might be able to accept your premise that the organization has a development problem relative to other organizations. But first, you'll have to explain away a few exceptions. I think they dwarf the number of examples you might offer up as proof that development is the problem. The exceptions among players who have seen MLB action in 2018 are Rosario, Rogers, Hildenberger, Dozier, Mauer, Berrios, Chargois, Gibson, Curtiss, Garver, Kepler, May, Polanco, and Slegers. All of these players have been developed at or above expectations, have they not? I suppose we could argue about a couple of these guys, but the question would remain: how did bad development let these players slip through the cracks?

 

Is it plausible that development is adequate unless the player is a high draft pick or is highly ranked (exceptions again: Mauer, Gibson, Berrios)? 

 

I know we've had glaring and frustrating disappointments. It makes me want to find someone to blame. But then, along come Kiriloff, Grateral, Romero, Lewis, Rooker, and many others, and they offset in a landslide those irritating disappointments like Jay and Stewart.

 

I don't know what causes the failings, but I have not been convinced so far that there's a pattern involving issues with development. 

Edited by birdwatcher, 07 August 2018 - 06:50 PM.

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#33 diehardtwinsfan

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Posted 07 August 2018 - 06:51 PM

 

We have had quite a few high draft picks and/or highly ranked prospects do either nothing or have ended up grossly underachieving with us. Do we really think there is no development problem?

 

I think we all agree there's a development issue. That's one thing this front office was brought in to fix. I'm not sure the examples used in this thread at all reflect the issue.

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#34 jimmer

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Posted 07 August 2018 - 06:55 PM

I think we all agree there's a development issue. That's one thing this front office was brought in to fix. I'm not sure the examples used in this thread at all reflect the issue.

well, seems at least a few do NOT agree :-)

#35 Thrylos

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Posted 07 August 2018 - 08:15 PM

Missing one piece of data:

 

Since his trade to the Twins, Logan Forsythe is hitting333/.375/.400

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#36 Shaitan

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Posted 07 August 2018 - 08:32 PM

Of course the team chemistry is better in a winning clubhouse that in the Twins' this July. I'm also willing to bet these players now have extra motivation as their season isn't just for the stats anymore.

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#37 TheLeviathan

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Posted 07 August 2018 - 08:47 PM

 

Missing one piece of data:

 

Since his trade to the Twins, Logan Forsythe is hitting333/.375/.400

 

Must be our awesome clubhouse.

 

Maybe trading Lance Lynn has also revealed our true Cy Young: Mitch Garver.

 

Or maybe if we want to talk about development we talk about Tyler Jay and not the OP's list.


#38 birdwatcher

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Posted 07 August 2018 - 10:25 PM

 

well, seems at least a few do NOT agree :-)

 

I DO agree we have a development problem. Every team does.

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#39 Han Joelo

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Posted 07 August 2018 - 10:27 PM

Machado Ops:

Baltimore.963
LA. .806

Given Dozier improved, and he's been worse, it follows that when the Twins sign him, he'll do better. Right?
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#40 birdwatcher

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Posted 07 August 2018 - 10:28 PM

 

Missing one piece of data:

 

Since his trade to the Twins, Logan Forsythe is hitting333/.375/.400

 

 

Looks like our development people solved another team's problem.;)

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