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Is Development Still Broken?

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#1 Vanimal46

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Posted 07 August 2018 - 08:50 AM

SSS alert: Everyone that was traded except Zach Duke is performing better with their new team than they did with the Twins.

Eduardo Escobar: 37 PA - .344/.378/.469 4 doubles 3 RBI

Brian Dozier: 18 PA - .400/.500/.1000 2 HR 7 RBI

Ryan Pressly: 3 appearances - 4.1 IP - 2.08 ERA - 5/0 K/BB

Lance Lynn: 2 appearances - 11.2 IP - 0.00 ERA - 14/1 K/BB

Rome wasn't built in a day, I realize. Is it fair to say development is still broken at One Twins Way?
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#2 NapoleonComplex

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Posted 07 August 2018 - 08:58 AM

It puzzles me. I personally believe there is an issue in the clubhouse. Some sort of tension either between players and coaches, coaches and FO, players and FO ... or all of the above. Seems like a toxic work environment immediately improved by a change of scenery.

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#3 Vanimal46

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Posted 07 August 2018 - 09:03 AM

It boggles my mind too. The one that sticks out the most is Lynn. I was shocked anyone would trade breathing baseball players for him. And last night he pitched his best game of the season. Granted it was against the White Sox... He still attacked the strike zone and all of a sudden has command again after leaving the team.
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#4 Drew

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Posted 07 August 2018 - 09:04 AM

Beyond the joke of a sample size these guys are all veterans, 2 of whom were already having very good years, who shouldn't need developing. Escobar has actually lowered his OPS with Arizona and Pressly's FIP has gone up by almost a full run. 

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#5 NapoleonComplex

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Posted 07 August 2018 - 09:09 AM

14/1 K/BB in 11 2/3 since Lynn put on pinstripes. I understand Dozier's current hot streak because we've seen it multiple times. Escobar has been steady all season, so that makes sense. The same with Pressly. But Lance Lynn ... I just don't get it.

 

Maybe it isn't a clubhouse problem? Maybe we're only befuddled because the one guy we didn't expect to see improve is doing so in a big way - albeit a SSS.

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#6 Vanimal46

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Posted 07 August 2018 - 09:10 AM

Beyond the joke of a sample size these guys are all veterans, 2 of whom were already having very good years, who shouldn't need developing. Escobar has actually lowered his OPS with Arizona and Pressly's FIP has gone up by almost a full run.


This game requires constant tweaking and coaching no matter your age. I don't agree these guys no longer need development. Otherwise Gibson would still be a sinker ball pitcher trying to induce ground balls.
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#7 Circus Boy

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Posted 07 August 2018 - 09:16 AM

Not surprising at all to see former Twins do well. The pressure of futures up in the air does funny things to us all, not least to elite athletes. Once that pressure's off, everything seems easy-peasy again, like Little League.

"Not my circus, not my monkeys." -- Polish saying


#8 Mike Sixel

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Posted 07 August 2018 - 09:17 AM

 

Not surprising at all to see former Twins do well. The pressure of futures up in the air does funny things to us all, not least to elite athletes. Once that pressure's off, everything seems easy-peasy again, like Little League.

 

Interesting, I wonder what the data says about guys traded and their success after the deal......I may have to find it. If I had to guess, it isn't true that most players do better after being traded than they were doing all year until then, but that would be a guess.

I remain hopeful on Buxton and Sano.....but I'd not bet the franchise on them.


#9 amjgt

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Posted 07 August 2018 - 09:21 AM

Let’s talk in September when the smallness of the sample isn’t so comical.
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#10 Craig Arko

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Posted 07 August 2018 - 09:21 AM

if it were me, I'd be very careful about letting confirmation bias interpret insignificant sampling.

 

But then it's not me. :)

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#11 alarp33

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Posted 07 August 2018 - 09:22 AM

 

SSS alert: Everyone that was traded except Zach Duke is performing better with their new team than they did with the Twins.

Eduardo Escobar: 37 PA - .344/.378/.469 4 doubles 3 RBI

Brian Dozier: 18 PA - .400/.500/.1000 2 HR 7 RBI

Ryan Pressly: 3 appearances - 4.1 IP - 2.08 ERA - 5/0 K/BB

Lance Lynn: 2 appearances - 11.2 IP - 0.00 ERA - 14/1 K/BB

Rome wasn't built in a day, I realize. Is it fair to say development is still broken at One Twins Way?

 

Seriously? We're talking about whether the Twins can develop players based on some veterans with 18 and 37 plate appearances and pitchers with 4 and 11 innings pitched?

 

This is especially funny using Escobar and Dozier, two players who literally got the most possible out of their talent while with the Twins, and turned into WAY better players than anyone could've ever predicted

Edited by alarp33, 07 August 2018 - 09:29 AM.

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#12 Mike Sixel

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Posted 07 August 2018 - 09:23 AM

In fairness, it might be something other than that.....like, you know, that 15 page thread we had on chemistry.....and not development.....

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I remain hopeful on Buxton and Sano.....but I'd not bet the franchise on them.


#13 nicksaviking

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Posted 07 August 2018 - 09:39 AM

I agree that it's probably nothing to do with development as these guys are veterans. I'd also agree that a winning atmosphere likely is a motivating factor for some of these guys. Escobar and Pressly were already playing well for the Twins so I don't know that there's much to read into with them. Dozier and Lynn have definitely perked up, but their lousy play with the Twins likely was a large part of why the Twins didn't have a "winning atmosphere".

 

And while I was never interested in signing Lynn to begin with, his early season struggles are pretty typical of guys who don't sign until spring training. I'd put a lot of his Twins struggles on that.

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#14 jorgenswest

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Posted 07 August 2018 - 09:51 AM

I think once you say small sample you stop the thought and wait on the sample.

Slash stats need a full season. ERA multiple seasons. Strike out and walk rates will stabilize for the hitters and starting pitchers by the end of the season.
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#15 Brock Beauchamp

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Posted 07 August 2018 - 10:04 AM

 

SSS alert: Everyone that was traded except Zach Duke is performing better with their new team than they did with the Twins.

Eduardo Escobar: 37 PA - .344/.378/.469 4 doubles 3 RBI

Brian Dozier: 18 PA - .400/.500/.1000 2 HR 7 RBI

Ryan Pressly: 3 appearances - 4.1 IP - 2.08 ERA - 5/0 K/BB

Lance Lynn: 2 appearances - 11.2 IP - 0.00 ERA - 14/1 K/BB

Rome wasn't built in a day, I realize. Is it fair to say development is still broken at One Twins Way?

The only guy who wasn't good with the Twins and is good with their current team is Dozier.

 

Lynn's line was ugly but he was solid overall once you got past April's disaster. Pressly and Escobar were good in Minnesota, which is why they brought back the best overall returns in trade.

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#16 Drew

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Posted 07 August 2018 - 10:08 AM

 

This game requires constant tweaking and coaching no matter your age. I don't agree these guys no longer need development. Otherwise Gibson would still be a sinker ball pitcher trying to induce ground balls

 

It takes longer than a week to fundamentally change an approach to such a degree that someone becomes a different player. 

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#17 birdwatcher

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Posted 07 August 2018 - 10:17 AM

Add me to the people wondering about attitudes and not questioning development. I'd love to hear from an expert on nonverbal interpersonal communication regarding the body language we saw from both Lynn and Morrison so often this year. I don't know if what I saw was a sign of frustration, disgruntlement, both, or neither, but I can tell you I saw something, and it sure wasn't positive. If we were flies on the clubhouse wall, do you think we may have heard some griping and negativity from those guys, to name two?

 

Gardy had his massive faults, but I wonder if he couldn't teach Molitor a thing or two about maintaining a good clubhouse vibe in the face of prolonged adversity.

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#18 slash129

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Posted 07 August 2018 - 10:25 AM

It seems some are using player development and clubhouse chemistry almost interchangeably in some of these replies.I'm sure one can effect the other and vice versa. The two circles may even overlap a bit. However, they aren't the same thing.


#19 ewen21

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Posted 07 August 2018 - 10:34 AM

There are development issues, in my opinion.

 

HOwever, the examples used just don't fit


#20 Doomtints

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Posted 07 August 2018 - 10:42 AM

 

I was shocked anyone would trade breathing baseball players for him.

 

I wasn't. He's a good pitcher.

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