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Article: CLE 10, MIN 0: Who Needs Chris Gimenez?

mitch garver matt belisle
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#21 ashburyjohn

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Posted 07 August 2018 - 06:26 AM

Garver: "...one out in the seventh, asked me if I'd ever pitched..."

 

Seriously, is this any way to run a ball team? It's not consequential in a 10-0 game, but do they not have a database where everyone is asked this when they are added to the 25-man? And then in every game there is not a depth chart of who is physically available to pitch that day, that goes all the way down the line to emergency pitcher use?

 

"Would you mind pitching next?" Reasonable question. Or, "we're in a tough spot, I need you to pitch," if that's more your style. But, "have you ever pitched?" Not a fan of how this played out.

 

Whether that's on the FO or the field staff, I want my dugout prepared for every eventuality. This shows lack of preparation; what else is falling between the cracks?

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#22 spycake

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Posted 07 August 2018 - 06:41 AM

Garver: "...one out in the seventh, asked me if I'd ever pitched..."

Seriously, is this any way to run a ball team? It's not consequential in a 10-0 game, but do they not have a database where everyone is asked this when they are added to the 25-man?


I hear Jack Goin may have taken the database with him. :)

And due to the record payroll, the Pohlads suspended the raffle that was to accompany the emergency pitcher questionnaire, so perhaps employee participation was lower. First prize was supposed to be a mountain bike this year! :(
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#23 BJames

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Posted 07 August 2018 - 06:56 AM

Why didn't Drake pitch?My brother who is also a Big Twins fan said to me last week that Molitor doesn't Manage to win the game, while the cleveland manager was.He's right, look at the line-up and the number of time weak relievers have come into games that are still on the line.NO winning team would manage like this!Thus, we are not a winning team!

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#24 gocgo

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Posted 07 August 2018 - 07:07 AM

FWIW, Garver got squeezed out of a K against Lindor. His numbers should actually be better!

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#25 Number3

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Posted 07 August 2018 - 07:51 AM

Al I know is that August/Sep this year could have still been fun and has been made totally irrelevant by the FO. Grapefruit games in March are more interesting than these last two months will be. On to football and who cares whether the Twins beat the Indians in the rest of this series with the lineups they will send out there.

Also, what is one good reason why Buxton should not be called up immediately and told not to crash into walls or take chances on the bases. Just work on his hitting against actual Major League pitching. If he is too fragile to risk that he should be released.

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#26 ThejacKmp

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Posted 07 August 2018 - 08:14 AM

 

Also, what is one good reason why Buxton should not be called up immediately and told not to crash into walls or take chances on the bases. Just work on his hitting against actual Major League pitching. If he is too fragile to risk that he should be released.

 

1.) He is on the disabled list with a bad wrist. It would be detrimental to his healing process to play baseball games.
2.) Byron Buxton’s speed is his greatest attribute. Asking him not to take chances on the bases is like asking J.D. Martinez not to swing for the fences. Why would you do it?
3.) Major league games attract tons of media attention and fans. If a guy is working on something and struggling, you don’t want him to have all of that media attention.
4.) Minor league games don’t matter as much – it’s okay to tell a guy not to swing at anything except curve balls or to take a few pitches to work on hitting with two strikes. It’s hard to do that in the MLB when games matter and you can’t experiment as much.
5.) Minor league teams have hitting instructors attached who can work one-on-one with a specific hitter. Those are not as prevalent at the MLB level, where guys are supposed to know what they’re doing already.

 

I could come up with more if you wanted.

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#27 Mike Sixel

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Posted 07 August 2018 - 09:22 AM

any idea why 31 yo old new guy, cut by 4 teams already this year, didn't pitch last night instead of Garver? Buehler? Anyone? 

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There's always next year, or the next, or maybe by the time I'm Chief's age, I guess....


#28 spycake

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Posted 07 August 2018 - 09:41 AM

any idea why 31 yo old new guy, cut by 4 teams already this year, didn't pitch last night instead of Garver?


Drake has had hundreds of professional innings for us to evaluate. Garver had literally zero. I think it would have been irresponsible NOT to pitch Garver last night, to see if he has what it takes to be part of our 2019 pen. :)
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#29 Doomtints

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Posted 07 August 2018 - 09:50 AM

Belisle won't be cut.

 

*Cue cooked up story about his arm hurting followed by him hitting the DL.*


#30 Doomtints

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Posted 07 August 2018 - 09:53 AM

Anyway, this loss is on the manager and not Belisle. There was zero reason to keep Gibson in there in the 4th. He was cooked. Sticking Belisle in later was probably the right move. Why waste a good reliever in a losing effort?

 

Rosario and Mauer were both pulled late in the game too. Molitor just wanted to finish the game and not risk anybody important.

Edited by Doomtints, 07 August 2018 - 09:54 AM.

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#31 spycake

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Posted 07 August 2018 - 09:55 AM

Our last two position player pitching appearances (Astudillo and Garver) have both come immediately after Matt Belisle appearances in the same game. That's a special kind of setup man!
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#32 Mike Sixel

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Posted 07 August 2018 - 10:02 AM

 

Drake has had hundreds of professional innings for us to evaluate. Garver had literally zero. I think it would have been irresponsible NOT to pitch Garver last night, to see if he has what it takes to be part of our 2019 pen. :)

 

heh, well played.....but apparently those hundreds of innings are meaningless, or 4 other teams were really wrong earlier this year....or, um, something.

 

but well played.

There's always next year, or the next, or maybe by the time I'm Chief's age, I guess....


#33 Mike Sixel

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Posted 07 August 2018 - 10:03 AM

 

Anyway, this loss is on the manager and not Belisle. There was zero reason to keep Gibson in there in the 4th. He was cooked. Sticking Belisle in later was probably the right move. Why waste a good reliever in a losing effort?

 

Rosario and Mauer were both pulled late in the game too. Molitor just wanted to finish the game and not risk anybody important.

 

like his catcher's arm?

There's always next year, or the next, or maybe by the time I'm Chief's age, I guess....


#34 laloesch

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Posted 07 August 2018 - 11:18 AM

 

Garver: "...one out in the seventh, asked me if I'd ever pitched..."

 

Seriously, is this any way to run a ball team? It's not consequential in a 10-0 game, but do they not have a database where everyone is asked this when they are added to the 25-man? And then in every game there is not a depth chart of who is physically available to pitch that day, that goes all the way down the line to emergency pitcher use?

 

"Would you mind pitching next?" Reasonable question. Or, "we're in a tough spot, I need you to pitch," if that's more your style. But, "have you ever pitched?" Not a fan of how this played out.

 

Whether that's on the FO or the field staff, I want my dugout prepared for every eventuality. This shows lack of preparation; what else is falling between the cracks?

 

I was thinking along the same lines too.If anything it illustrates a scatterbrain approach.I think they need to shake things up again at the coaching level this offseason. 

 

Just my opinion, but like others have said I don't think Paul Molitor is the answer going forward with a young team.Nothing personal towards Paul but that's I feel about him being manager.And to be perfectly fair responsibility doesn't all fall on his shoulders but something is not clicking with this team. I don't think he was the answer in 2015 and he isn't now.

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#35 jtkoupal

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Posted 07 August 2018 - 12:25 PM

A bigger question...

 

Why is Matt Belisle still on the active roster? 

 

He is 38 years old. He has a 7.71 ERA. His peripherals are better (5.30 FIP, 4.68 xFIP) however, even 4.68 was his ERA, he would (in theory) still be on the chopping block.

 

I truly no longer buy the veteran leadership excuse. His job is to be a relief pitcher. His job is not to be Coach Matt. Eddie Guardado is the bullpen coach. Garvin Alston is the pitching coach. Their jobs are to be leaders and coaches. 

 

But that being said... why do Addison Reed and Fernando Rodney not count as veteran leaders? I can't speak to what they do for the clubhouse, but what does a 7.71 ERA do for the team?

 

Bottom line... there is a lack of transparency here. There is a reason Matt Belisle is still a Twin. That reason is likely something that we will never know.

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#36 yarnivek1972

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Posted 07 August 2018 - 02:05 PM

I don’t know if I love the idea of Garver pitching. I’m old enough to remember Jose Canseco pitching once and how it destroyed what was once a very good throwing arm.

The Twins are carrying 8 relievers. Use them. That’s what they are paid for. Did Garver ask to pitch? Probably. That doesn’t mean Molitor has to say yes. It’s all fun and games until someone gets hurt doing it. Then someone gets fired.

Edited by yarnivek1972, 07 August 2018 - 02:05 PM.

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#37 h2oface

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Posted 07 August 2018 - 02:29 PM

 

A bigger question...

 

Why is Matt Belisle still on the active roster? 

 

He is 38 years old. He has a 7.71 ERA. His peripherals are better (5.30 FIP, 4.68 xFIP) however, even 4.68 was his ERA, he would (in theory) still be on the chopping block.

 

I truly no longer buy the veteran leadership excuse. His job is to be a relief pitcher. His job is not to be Coach Matt. Eddie Guardado is the bullpen coach. Garvin Alston is the pitching coach. Their jobs are to be leaders and coaches. 

 

But that being said... why do Addison Reed and Fernando Rodney not count as veteran leaders? I can't speak to what they do for the clubhouse, but what does a 7.71 ERA do for the team?

 

Bottom line... there is a lack of transparency here. There is a reason Matt Belisle is still a Twin. That reason is likely something that we will never know.

 

Tourists (Addison Reed and Fernando Rodney) and one year players are not leaders of the clubhouse. I don't care how good they have been. Jim Thome for a year in the 11th hour of his career is not a clubhouse leader. He is a respected old man. Belisle, with a mediocre talent even in his best years, is certainly not someone that younger players respect. They put up with him. Especially now, since he absolutely sucks. Respect comes from your play. Torii Hunter is the exception, because he was a long time Twin, and he came back for his last years (after running for the money and giving his best years to a different team). But it is hogwash to say that Belisle is valuable as a clubhouse leader. He has to be a laughing stock, and the players hiding their sympathy and disdain. The FO and Molitor lose credibility for trying that tact on smart people. I'm not buying. 

Edited by h2oface, 07 August 2018 - 02:31 PM.

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#38 ThejacKmp

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Posted 07 August 2018 - 03:29 PM

 

I was thinking along the same lines too.If anything it illustrates a scatterbrain approach.I think they need to shake things up again at the coaching level this offseason. 

 

Just my opinion, but like others have said I don't think Paul Molitor is the answer going forward with a young team.Nothing personal towards Paul but that's I feel about him being manager.And to be perfectly fair responsibility doesn't all fall on his shoulders but something is not clicking with this team. I don't think he was the answer in 2015 and he isn't now.

 

That said, every single article about a position player pitching features that narrative. The coach asks if they've pitched and throws them in there. I don't think this is Molitor, this is every team. It's a good idea to have this charted though. Only reason not to is that you want guys to not be thinking about it maybe? Seems kind of a lame reason but baseball's a head game.


#39 ThejacKmp

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Posted 07 August 2018 - 03:58 PM

 

Tourists (Addison Reed and Fernando Rodney) and one year players are not leaders of the clubhouse. I don't care how good they have been. Jim Thome for a year in the 11th hour of his career is not a clubhouse leader. He is a respected old man. Belisle, with a mediocre talent even in his best years, is certainly not someone that younger players respect. They put up with him. Especially now, since he absolutely sucks. Respect comes from your play. Torii Hunter is the exception, because he was a long time Twin, and he came back for his last years (after running for the money and giving his best years to a different team). But it is hogwash to say that Belisle is valuable as a clubhouse leader. He has to be a laughing stock, and the players hiding their sympathy and disdain. The FO and Molitor lose credibility for trying that tact on smart people. I'm not buying. 

1. Leadership is not something that has to be gained over time. Sometimes it is but other times, someone just emerges as a leader because they have those characteristics. Joe has never been a huge leader and he’s been around for a long time. That’s just not him. Other guys come in and are immediately leaders. Calling Reed and Rodney tourists is irrelevant name calling.

 

2. Similarly, Belisle’s success is immaterial. The biggest stars are not always the leaders, sometimes that’s another guy. Eduardo Escobar was a leader and he was a utility infielder for years. He was a leader because of his attitude and innate interpersonal skills. Guys understand that baseball is hard and that every team has roles – there’s no reason Belisle sucking changes how the players view him as long as he’s still giving his all and being a good dude.

 

3. Along that line, respect doesn’t come from your play, it comes from how you carry yourself. Most of the guys who become managers were terrible utility infielders and backup catchers, not stars. They became managers because they had the passion for the game and the leadership ability even when not good. Maybe especially when not good. Again, Joe Mauer was never a leader, even when he was the best player on a team.

 

4. The fact that you cite Torii Hunter is ludicrous. None of the players on the 2015 team knew him except Mauer. And he savaged Mauer in the press on the way out of town six years before. Torii was seen as a leader because of his abilities in the clubhouse and his veteran status (two things Belisle could have). Which brings me to . . .

 

5. The chief fallacy of your argument/diatribe is that you know that its hogwash that Belisle is valuable in the clubhouse. You have no concept of the inner workings of the Twins clubhouse. You can’t site anything where players don’t respect him. You’re conflating ineffectiveness on the field with ineffectiveness as part of the team.

 

Ridiculous.




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