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Article: Week in Review: Moving Forward

miguel sano jorge polanco adalberto mejia brent rooker ryan jeffers
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#21 Mike Sixel

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Posted 06 August 2018 - 11:01 AM

 

So, while I generally agree with the conventional wisdom, expressed here, that we'd like to bring young guys up and give them a taste of the majors in a season like this, I also have heard many say that the Twins mishandled Buxton (and maybe Sano and others)by bringing them up early, before they were ready.Maybe some of you, with more experience, have written about this too.I think the thinking is that Buxton's early failures have wrecked his confidence and that it's hard to make major adjustments at the MLB level.And with Sano, that his early success may have made him overconfident and undercut his work ethic.  

 

I don't know, I really don't.But I'd like to hear you all consider that bringing young guys up is not without risk.How do we evaluate when it makes sense, and when it doesn't?  

 

Austin is 26 and out of options next year. That, imo, is why he should be up this year. Because he's either here next year, or claimed when optioned, or not good enough to worry about. 

 

I'm with you on Gordon and some other young players, though.

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I remain hopeful on Buxton and Sano.....but I'd not bet the franchise on them.


#22 Nick Nelson

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Posted 06 August 2018 - 11:30 AM

 

Meh, I wouldn't consider Rogers or Moya(or Rodney for that matter)sure things for the pen next year...

Rogers has (by far) the most appearances for MN over the past three years of anyone on the roster, and currently owns a 2.62 FIP as well as career bests in WHIP, HR rate and K rate. He'll be fairly cheap in 2019. He's a core building block in this bullpen and a total lock.

 

You may be right on Moya, but I'd sure like to think he'll be in. The guy can pitch and has nothing else to prove in the minors.

 

 

I don't really see them moving forward......there isn't much youth and inexperience on this roster, more like treading water. If they were moving forward, Morrison would be gone, and Austin would be up, for example.

I think we're getting a little impatient on Austin. He's been in the org for like a week and it's not like he's been outrageously dominant in Triple-A.

 

While I know everyone's disenchanted with Morrison, the Twins do have a reasonable option on him for 2019. Are you saying even if he turns it on with a monster final two months, you'd be totally opposed to exploring that route? He does have 5 HR in his last 16 games... 

 

Treating Austin as some sort of guaranteed upgrade strikes me as symptomatic of a "grass is always greener" mentality.

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#23 Mike Sixel

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Posted 06 August 2018 - 11:32 AM

 

Rogers has (by far) the most appearances for MN over the past three years of anyone on the roster, and currently owns a 2.62 FIP as well as career bests in WHIP, HR rate and K rate. He'll be fairly cheap in 2019. He's a core building block in this bullpen and a total lock.

 

You may be right on Moya, but I'd sure like to think he'll be in. The guy can pitch and has nothing else to prove in the minors.

 

 

I think we're getting a little impatient on Austin. He's been in the org for like a week and it's not like he's been outrageously dominant in Triple-A.

 

While I know everyone's disenchanted with Morrison, the Twins do have a reasonable option on him for 2019. Are you saying even if he turns it on with a monster final two months, you'd be totally opposed to exploring that route? He does have 5 HR in his last 16 games... 

 

Treating Austin as some sort of guaranteed upgrade strikes me as symptomatic of a "grass is always greener" mentality.

 

No place have I said he's guaranteed anything....in a lost season, you call guys up and give them a shot. He's out of options next year, so see if he's part of the future or not. Been very consistent on that point....gather data, and see where your holes are.

 

And no, I don't really think Morrison is part of 2019. He's had one really good year.

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I remain hopeful on Buxton and Sano.....but I'd not bet the franchise on them.


#24 spycake

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Posted 06 August 2018 - 11:43 AM

 

Of all the top 10 Twins prospects, Rooker seems best positioned to make a real impact at the major-league level next year. I'd love it if we got an early look at him in September, and the more he continues to crush week after week, the more realistic that possibility becomes.

I like seeing new players, and lord knows the Twins could use a phenom rocketing to MLB, but I think I'd be pretty upset rather than excited if Rooker debuted in MLB yet this season, given everything we know. He still has some contact issues, so I wouldn't want to trust him to skip AAA and be ready to contribute for opening day 2019, and it would be very poor 40-man roster management to add him this early.

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#25 yarnivek1972

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Posted 06 August 2018 - 11:51 AM

So, while I generally agree with the conventional wisdom, expressed here, that we'd like to bring young guys up and give them a taste of the majors in a season like this, I also have heard many say that the Twins mishandled Buxton (and maybe Sano and others) by bringing them up early, before they were ready. Maybe some of you, with more experience, have written about this too. I think the thinking is that Buxton's early failures have wrecked his confidence and that it's hard to make major adjustments at the MLB level. And with Sano, that his early success may have made him overconfident and undercut his work ethic.

I don't know, I really don't. But I'd like to hear you all consider that bringing young guys up is not without risk. How do we evaluate when it makes sense, and when it doesn't?


Most of the guys we are talking about bringing up aren’t young. Most of the relievers that posters want looked at the MLB level are 25 or older.
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#26 Nick Nelson

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Posted 06 August 2018 - 12:08 PM

 

I like seeing new players, and lord knows the Twins could use a phenom rocketing to MLB, but I think I'd be pretty upset rather than excited if Rooker debuted in MLB yet this season, given everything we know. He still has some contact issues, so I wouldn't want to trust him to skip AAA and be ready to contribute for opening day 2019, and it would be very poor 40-man roster management to add him this early.

Fair enough, although Rooker has a 25% K rate since the start of June and the Southern League average is 23% so I'm not sure I'd really deem that "contact issues" for a power hitter. Given that his approach has developed so rapidly and he already turns 24 in November I'm fine with pushing him and challenging him. I dunno how much value he'll get out of spending time in AAA.

 

 

No place have I said he's guaranteed anything....in a lost season, you call guys up and give them a shot. He's out of options next year, so see if he's part of the future or not. Been very consistent on that point....gather data, and see where your holes are.

I'm on board with that and would like to see Austin up as well. I just don't necessarily think the fact he's not here presently, while Morrison is, demonstrates that the Twins aren't looking ahead.

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#27 KirbyDome89

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Posted 06 August 2018 - 12:11 PM

 

Someone is not allowing this org to move forward... Whether that's MoY, ownership, or some other voice behind the scenes.

I want to believe this isn't Falvine's vision, recycling through waiver wire fodder.

If it isn't part of their "vision," then somebody must have a gun to their head because they've done an awful lot of it over the last two seasons. 


#28 yarnivek1972

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Posted 06 August 2018 - 12:12 PM

Fair enough, although Rooker has a 25% K rate since the start of June and the Southern League average is 23% so I'm not sure I'd really deem that "contact issues" for a power hitter. Given that his approach has developed so rapidly and he already turns 24 in November I'm fine with pushing him and challenging him. I dunno how much value he'll get out of spending time in AAA.


I'm on board with that and would like to see Austin up as well. I just don't necessarily think the fact he's not here presently, while Morrison, is demonstrates that the Twins aren't looking ahead.


Belisle’s pressence certainly does.
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#29 Mike Sixel

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Posted 06 August 2018 - 12:33 PM

 

Fair enough, although Rooker has a 25% K rate since the start of June and the Southern League average is 23% so I'm not sure I'd really deem that "contact issues" for a power hitter. Given that his approach has developed so rapidly and he already turns 24 in November I'm fine with pushing him and challenging him. I dunno how much value he'll get out of spending time in AAA.

 

 

I'm on board with that and would like to see Austin up as well. I just don't necessarily think the fact he's not here presently, while Morrison is, demonstrates that the Twins aren't looking ahead.

 

Fair....what signs do you see on the current roster that they are looking to 2019? I'm open to a different thought than I have, but I just don't see much of a youth movement.

I remain hopeful on Buxton and Sano.....but I'd not bet the franchise on them.


#30 spycake

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Posted 06 August 2018 - 12:49 PM

 

Why not give Alan Busenitz, Tyler Duffey, Luke Bard, John Curtiss, Nick Anderson or even Kohl Stewart a shot? There is no shortage of worthwhile candidates on the Triple-A roster, and this is seemingly the perfect time to take a look.

The front office must simply be planning to remove Busenitz, Duffey, and Curtiss from the 40-man roster following the season. They're probably just being kept on the roster for now to improve their chances of clearing waivers. (Although Duffey would be eligible for minor league free agency too.)

 

Similarly, Nick Anderson and Kohl Stewart can be controlled beyond this season even without a 40-man roster spot, as long as no one selects them in Rule 5.

 

Bard, like Duffey, will be eligible for minor league free agency if he's not on the 40-man this offseason, but Bard is having a garbage season at AAA anyway.

 

So I guess Duffey could be the priority? But they've had plenty of looks at him over the years, so I don't know...


#31 spycake

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Posted 06 August 2018 - 01:13 PM

 

Fair enough, although Rooker has a 25% K rate since the start of June and the Southern League average is 23% so I'm not sure I'd really deem that "contact issues" for a power hitter. Given that his approach has developed so rapidly and he already turns 24 in November I'm fine with pushing him and challenging him. I dunno how much value he'll get out of spending time in AAA.

25-27% K rate isn't bad for a power hitter in MLB. But if it's below league average at AA, that suggests there could be further trouble up the line. He's not Adam Brett Walker but it's a concern, especially for a guy whose only value is going to have to come through his bat. (And Rooker's jump in walk rate since June 1st suggests he could be getting pitched around as his bat has warmed up, which might be contributing to his lower K rate in that time?)

 

In any case, I don't see him as a good Plan A for MLB opening day 2019, and he's not Rule 5 eligible, so it seems like bad roster management to add him to the 40-man right now. If you want to challenge him a little yet this season, move him to Rochester just to see how he adapts to a different league again -- that's been a bit of an issue for him too.

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#32 jorgenswest

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Posted 06 August 2018 - 01:17 PM

I assume I am wrong about Duffey as most of my thoughts are stats and peripheral based but I think he can be an effective reliever. He was an effective reliever early last year and was used frequently.

#33 diehardtwinsfan

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Posted 06 August 2018 - 02:33 PM

 

 

Similarly, Nick Anderson and Kohl Stewart can be controlled beyond this season even without a 40-man roster spot, as long as no one selects them in Rule 5.

 

.

 

I'd say that there's a good chance that both of these guys will be selected if left unprotected. 


#34 ashburyjohn

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Posted 06 August 2018 - 02:34 PM

I assume I am wrong about Duffey as most of my thoughts are stats and peripheral based but I think he can be an effective reliever. He was an effective reliever early last year and was used frequently.

Duffey by now is a one-pitch pitcher - his fastball is a "for show" pitch only, anymore. That's no way to go through life.

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#35 jorgenswest

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Posted 06 August 2018 - 03:10 PM

Duffey by now is a one-pitch pitcher - his fastball is a "for show" pitch only, anymore. That's no way to go through life.


I don’t disagree.

I still have to wonder a little though thinking back to the Astro relievers last year tossing curve ball after curve ball in the playoffs. Could the Astros take his curve ball and develop that pitch into a plus major league pitch?
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#36 KirbyDaisy

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Posted 06 August 2018 - 03:18 PM

I'm not in a position to interview Falvey or Levine, but some of you on Twins Daily are.Why not ask them all the questions popping up on this site.Why is Belisle still here?Why isn't Gonsalves up?Why do we keep adding has beens to the team?Why aren't we bringing up certain relievers instead?Some of you are in a position to get these answers for the rest of us.If we had the answers to these questions our subsequent questions would carry more weight.

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#37 spycake

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Posted 06 August 2018 - 03:42 PM

I'd say that there's a good chance that both of these guys will be selected if left unprotected.


Well, Stewart went unselected last year, has much changed this year? He wasn't exactly an under the radar type.

Anderson seems like a classic older marginal type. I think if anyone selects him, they will regret it (like Bard, Kinley, Jones, etc.).

#38 diehardtwinsfan

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Posted 06 August 2018 - 04:05 PM

 

Fair enough, although Rooker has a 25% K rate since the start of June and the Southern League average is 23% so I'm not sure I'd really deem that "contact issues" for a power hitter. Given that his approach has developed so rapidly and he already turns 24 in November I'm fine with pushing him and challenging him. I dunno how much value he'll get out of spending time in AAA.

 

 

 

Seems the rumblings on him is that he's having problems with quality breaking pitches... he should see some better ones in AAA I would think. I like that his K rate continues to decline as the season is going on. He's obviously adjusting/learning. AAA wouldn't be a terrible bump.Though I'm of the opinion that we won't see Rooker until at least middle of next year. 

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#39 yarnivek1972

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Posted 06 August 2018 - 04:10 PM

Seems the rumblings on him is that he's having problems with quality breaking pitches... he should see some better ones in AAA I would think. I like that his K rate continues to decline as the season is going on. He's obviously adjusting/learning. AAA wouldn't be a terrible bump. Though I'm of the opinion that we won't see Rooker until at least middle of next year.



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#40 diehardtwinsfan

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Posted 06 August 2018 - 04:12 PM

 

Well, Stewart went unselected last year, has much changed this year? He wasn't exactly an under the radar type.

Anderson seems like a classic older marginal type. I think if anyone selects him, they will regret it (like Bard, Kinley, Jones, etc.).

 

Well, both were first round picks. Anderson has reinvented himself as a reliever and is knocking on the door. That's an easy selection for a bullpen weak team to see if he can stick. 

 

Stewart has increased his K rate by about 25% and dropped his walk rate to go with it. Considering his biggest knock was his K rate (which is very respectable in AAA this season), someone might. You may be right that these guys are marginal 40 man adds. We don't see them either, so who knows. I'd think both are risks to go personally. 




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