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#21 Loosey

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Posted 10 July 2018 - 12:06 PM

 

Amazing what a visit from by far the 2 worst teams in baseball can do for restoring the faith. :)

And the team you are chasing goes on a losing streak...


#22 Mike Sixel

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Posted 10 July 2018 - 12:12 PM

I have very strong doubts about this team......but I won't criticize the FO for waiting a few more days before deciding on a path.....

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I remain hopeful on Buxton and Sano.....but I'd not bet the franchise on them.


#23 Loosey

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Posted 10 July 2018 - 12:15 PM

This is my favorite thread in a while.Last week everyone was ready to unload the whole roster, blow it up, fire Molly, fire the front office and force Pohlad to the sell the team.  

 

But know after winning 5 in a row against two awful teams we all think they have a shot now.Which in theory they do.In all honesty, I think what happens through this weekend will be telling of what they do.The Twins have KC and TB.The Indians have Cincinnati then 4 against the Yankees.  

 

If Cleveland goes 2-4 and the Twins go 5-1 that is big swing at the All Star Break.  

 

That essentially puts the Twins 5 back.  

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#24 Platoon

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Posted 10 July 2018 - 12:44 PM

False hope, or unfalse hope is the worst thing one could have for this bunch. But let's say you have it. Hope we squeak by Cleveland? To play real baseball teams? Maybe the Yankess? Until this orginisation is convinced that they truly need a new look in the roster, both 25 and 40 man, and some new field staff, we will remain looking forward to playing the dregs of the league for false hope. Someone made a prediction about an 11-0 finish before the ASG and getting to about 5 behind Cleveland. That would be a disaster to this orginisation equivalent to May of 2015.
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#25 Platoon

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Posted 10 July 2018 - 01:06 PM

I have very strong doubts about this team......but I won't criticize the FO for waiting a few more days before deciding on a path.....

I wouldn't move now either, despite my skepticism. Things need to settle for OTHER teams Nor would I let a faux playoff run change my mind about the viability of this roster as a legitimate contender. Fool me once shame on you fool me twice, shame on (whoever fell for it)
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TwinsWorld: Did you hear we just updated the Stadium Club?

If I wanted balls and strikes called by a robot, I would get an Xbox!

#26 Brock Beauchamp

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Posted 10 July 2018 - 01:25 PM

If the Twins sell at the deadline, answer this question:

 

Exactly what do you expect they can get for any player who can't/won't be returning for 2019?

 

(the correct answer is "almost nothing")

 

So do you give up and get a pathetic return on expiring contracts or just play out the season and see what happens?

 

I'd rather see them ride it out considering what the return would be either way.

 

The one caveat being that an expiring contract is blocking a player you want to see in MLB through August and September.

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#27 gocgo

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Posted 10 July 2018 - 01:49 PM

 

I think the risk/reward is higher. Scratch that. I know it. A 5 game series gives you at least three playoff games, one at home. The second wild card gives you one away game. Even if you win the one game, you then have a 5 game series where you've already used your best pitcher.

 

The reward for making a run this year is much higher than last year, when the Twins were chasing the second wild card and not the division.

OK, I can buy that reasoning.

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Mind your own biscuits and life will be gravy.


#28 Brandon

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Posted 10 July 2018 - 01:58 PM

If we go 5-1 or 4-2 into the allstar break and gain a game or two on Cleveland, we should have some positive reinforcements/ developments on the way. I was ready to call it a season but soon I suspect we will have Buxton back
Sano in August if we keep winning and he drops 15 and refines his bat.
Santana
Pineda should be ready for a rehab stint soon.
If Rooker keeps hitting could he be up sooner than later?
Romero should be back soon as several relievers.

Polanco is already back
Mauer is showing signs of breaking his slump.
Dozier has started hitting with more power....remember he had a hr taken away from him the other day in an over the fence grab

Now if we can do something about C and DH were in business.
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#29 jkcarew

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Posted 10 July 2018 - 01:59 PM

 

If the Twins sell at the deadline, answer this question:

 

Exactly what do you expect they can get for any player who can't/won't be returning for 2019?

 

(the correct answer is "almost nothing")

 

So do you give up and get a pathetic return on expiring contracts or just play out the season and see what happens?

 

I'd rather see them ride it out considering what the return would be either way.

 

The one caveat being that an expiring contract is blocking a player you want to see in MLB through August and September.

This is the best and only argument for not selling.Until the last paragraph.I would hope the Twins have at least one player (or at least think they do) that would require a sell based on the last paragraph.

 

Personally, I like next-to-nothing better than nothing for the expiring contracts, as nothing about this team justifies passing on anything, IMO. 

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#30 KirbyDome89

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Posted 10 July 2018 - 02:01 PM

 

If the Twins sell at the deadline, answer this question:

 

Exactly what do you expect they can get for any player who can't/won't be returning for 2019?

 

(the correct answer is "almost nothing")

 

So do you give up and get a pathetic return on expiring contracts or just play out the season and see what happens?

 

I'd rather see them ride it out considering what the return would be either way.

 

The one caveat being that an expiring contract is blocking a player you want to see in MLB through August and September.

The return won't be more than lottery tickets, but why at least take that chance? They honestly have nothing to lose by moving off guys on short term deals.

 

There are plenty of relievers who frankly should be getting innings so I don't see a problem with trying to move Rodney or Duke. Belisle never should've been on the roster, so there's another spot. 

 

Is there really any point in continuing to feed ABs to Morrison or even Grossman? Buxton will be back up at some point and while I'm not a huge believer in Cave, he could certainly slide into the DH spot at that time. I'd take a bag of balls for Lynn and let Gonsalves, Romero, Mejia, and Slegers work through the rotation. 

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#31 ThejacKmp

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Posted 10 July 2018 - 02:08 PM

 

This is the best and only argument for not selling.Until the last paragraph.I would hope the Twins have at least one player (or at least think they do) that would require a sell based on the last paragraph.

 

Personally, I like next-to-nothing better than nothing for the expiring contracts, as nothing about this team justifies passing on anything, IMO. 

 

I like this argument too and I don't see anyone being blocked. Gordon and Wade can wait until September call-ups. Gonsalves too. Romero is being blocked by Slegers, which I don't expect to last. I also think that trading away Lynn for very little creates the possibility that injuries put you in a bad spot.

 

Escobar and maybe one of the relievers are the only guys you can realistically expect to get something for. Escobar creates a hole and I want to resign him. Pen guys are blocking someone. DFAing Belisle and trading Rodney to the Red Sox would neatly take care of that blockage. And maybe one of those arms can be like Hildy from last year.

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#32 ThejacKmp

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Posted 10 July 2018 - 02:22 PM

 

The return won't be more than lottery tickets, but why at least take that chance? They honestly have nothing to lose by moving off guys on short term deals.

 

Is there really any point in continuing to feed ABs to Morrison or even Grossman? Buxton will be back up at some point and while I'm not a huge believer in Cave, he could certainly slide into the DH spot at that time. I'd take a bag of balls for Lynn and let Gonsalves, Romero, Mejia, and Slegers work through the rotation. 

 

They do have things to lose.

 

If you were the Royals or Orioles facing a long rebuild, yeah, sell everything. Worked too well for the Astros not to do it. If you were a team like the Nats that are hoping to contend soon and have significant assets, yeah, you gotta thing about selling. Worked too well for the Yankees not to at least think about it. But the Twins are neither. They don’t have amazing assets (Escobar is about it and who knows what he’s worth in a market glutted with middle infielders) and they aren’t looking to bottom out.

 

The thing you stand to lose giving up on a season is the chance to put young players through a pennant race and demonstrate that the FO believes in the guys. The Twins have a non-negligible chance (by virtue of ten games against Cleveland they control their own destiny) and they have guys who could benefit from meaningful or near-meaningful August/September baseball. Again, if the expected return was more than minor league lottery ticket, I’d be more inclined. But I think you lose more by giving up that chance and that experience. Not to mention that making a run perhaps makes it easier to resign a guy like Escobar or attract next year’s Lance Lynn. Guys want to go to contenders so even getting back in and coming up just short looks better than finishing 15 games out.

 

As for Morrison, there is a good reason to feed him at-bats. The Twins have Mauer and Sano at 1B and they both have potential issues (concussions/age and sliders/attitude). Is it crazy to think that Morrison hitting down the stretch might make the Twins want to pick up his cheap 1 year $8 million option? He’s been okay defensively and is a left-handed power bat for a team with nobody inked in at DH or 1B. He’s also well-liked in the clubhouse and has underlying numbers that show he may just be unlucky.

 

Grossman is harder to defend. He’s going to get more expensive next year and Cave/Wade/Rooker seem likely to be in the picture next year. I think he serves a purpose now (RH OF/DHbats are hard to find in the Twins AAA/MLB) and wouldn’t be as easy to replace as you’d think. But if someone wanted Vargas an dumped Grossman, I’d get it.

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#33 Mike Sixel

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Posted 10 July 2018 - 02:22 PM

 

If the Twins sell at the deadline, answer this question:

 

Exactly what do you expect they can get for any player who can't/won't be returning for 2019?

 

(the correct answer is "almost nothing")

 

So do you give up and get a pathetic return on expiring contracts or just play out the season and see what happens?

 

I'd rather see them ride it out considering what the return would be either way.

 

The one caveat being that an expiring contract is blocking a player you want to see in MLB through August and September.

 

I'd rather get mediocre returns, and see the young pitchers up here. It's also about their opportunity. What do the Twins get, next year, out of watching Lynn pitch this year? Nothing. Which you sort of addressed....so, every pitcher not named Berrios or Slegers, on the current roster, is available (maybe not Gibson, maybe Gibson). Including all the RPs.

 

That leaves Esco and Dozier as the only two not currently blocking someone (maybe Grossman or Morrison, if you want Wade up). Gordon isn't ready.

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I remain hopeful on Buxton and Sano.....but I'd not bet the franchise on them.


#34 Mike Sixel

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Posted 10 July 2018 - 02:24 PM

 

I like this argument too and I don't see anyone being blocked. Gordon and Wade can wait until September call-ups. Gonsalves too. Romero is being blocked by Slegers, which I don't expect to last. I also think that trading away Lynn for very little creates the possibility that injuries put you in a bad spot.

 

Escobar and maybe one of the relievers are the only guys you can realistically expect to get something for. Escobar creates a hole and I want to resign him. Pen guys are blocking someone. DFAing Belisle and trading Rodney to the Red Sox would neatly take care of that blockage. And maybe one of those arms can be like Hildy from last year.

 

Bad spot for what? They have Romero, Gonsalves, and whatever AAA pitcher you want available to replace current players.

 

Waiting for September means you see, what, 2 starts? Unless you bench some veterans. 

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I remain hopeful on Buxton and Sano.....but I'd not bet the franchise on them.


#35 Mike Sixel

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Posted 10 July 2018 - 02:39 PM

I hope the FO isn't looking at these two series as anything other than win padding....these two teams have a chance to lose 120 games this year.......They aren't good.

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I remain hopeful on Buxton and Sano.....but I'd not bet the franchise on them.


#36 KirbyDome89

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Posted 10 July 2018 - 02:54 PM

 

They do have things to lose.

 

If you were the Royals or Orioles facing a long rebuild, yeah, sell everything. Worked too well for the Astros not to do it. If you were a team like the Nats that are hoping to contend soon and have significant assets, yeah, you gotta thing about selling. Worked too well for the Yankees not to at least think about it. But the Twins are neither. They don’t have amazing assets (Escobar is about it and who knows what he’s worth in a market glutted with middle infielders) and they aren’t looking to bottom out.

 

The thing you stand to lose giving up on a season is the chance to put young players through a pennant race and demonstrate that the FO believes in the guys. The Twins have a non-negligible chance (by virtue of ten games against Cleveland they control their own destiny) and they have guys who could benefit from meaningful or near-meaningful August/September baseball. Again, if the expected return was more than minor league lottery ticket, I’d be more inclined. But I think you lose more by giving up that chance and that experience. Not to mention that making a run perhaps makes it easier to resign a guy like Escobar or attract next year’s Lance Lynn. Guys want to go to contenders so even getting back in and coming up just short looks better than finishing 15 games out.

 

As for Morrison, there is a good reason to feed him at-bats. The Twins have Mauer and Sano at 1B and they both have potential issues (concussions/age and sliders/attitude). Is it crazy to think that Morrison hitting down the stretch might make the Twins want to pick up his cheap 1 year $8 million option? He’s been okay defensively and is a left-handed power bat for a team with nobody inked in at DH or 1B. He’s also well-liked in the clubhouse and has underlying numbers that show he may just be unlucky.

 

Grossman is harder to defend. He’s going to get more expensive next year and Cave/Wade/Rooker seem likely to be in the picture next year. I think he serves a purpose now (RH OF/DHbats are hard to find in the Twins AAA/MLB) and wouldn’t be as easy to replace as you’d think. But if someone wanted Vargas an dumped Grossman, I’d get it.

Pennant race? The Twins won't get to play the O's and Royals the rest of the season. The 06' comparisons have been beaten to death but it was over a month ago that matching the pace necessary to make the postseason was nearing 06' territory. Rightfully, most were skeptical. That was with 3/4 of the season left to play. We're at the halfway point now and since then the Twins have only damaged what little chance they had. They play 162 games; the fact that their chance of reaching the postseason is > 0% isn't particularly meaningful. They don't control their own destiny either. Sure, they have a handful of games remaining against Cleveland, but they also need the Indians to collapse, as much as they need to maintain a torrid win pace. If you want to hold out hope that they'll make a historical second half run, then more power to you, but for all realistic purposes this team isn't contending. 

 

I don't want next year's Lance Lynn. I have 0 interest in a pitcher with iffy peripherals, coming off a serious injury. There's a reason MN signed him for 1 year, and no other teams expressed real interest, and Lynn has shown us exactly what that reason was. I'd bet that money ultimately decides where Escobar ends up, not a few more meaningless second half Ws. 

 

Yes, it'd be borderline negligent for the Twins to pick up Morrison's option. He's been flat out awful apart from a few decent weeks in May. You don't slash .192/.289/.357 because you're "unlucky." The team won't have to look far to find an improvement over that. Grossman just doesn't serve a purpose on this team anymore. He only tenable attribute, getting on base, is no longer a strength. You're right, they have a handful of guys who should be replacing him. 

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#37 snap4birds

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Posted 10 July 2018 - 02:56 PM

 

 

Thanks for the correction. I dated myself again. I also admit that I too easily flip flop from "fire 'em all" to "go for it". All a fan can to is observe and react and, to me, sweeping Baltimore is no small feat as someone who used to go to Memorial Stadium and watch the Killebrew/Oliva Twins lose to the Orioles. I have always said that the Twins are basically in the same boat as the great majority of teams. So still rooting for them to go after every game and stay competitive is not really flip flopping.

So, first you say that you flip-flop, then you say you're not really flip-flopping?Isn't that a flip-flop :) ?

 

I think that's how my posts usually go.First I state a position, then I look at the other side of the same argument and contradict myself.That's why I usually don't post them;)  

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#38 Monkeypaws

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Posted 10 July 2018 - 03:05 PM

 

Now if we can do something about C and DH were in business.

 

C - play Garver. He isn't a black hole of offense, and not a disaster on defense either.

 

DH - Vargas has been heating up in Rochester. Bring him back. 


#39 jkcarew

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Posted 10 July 2018 - 03:17 PM

 

I hope the FO isn't looking at these two series as anything other than win padding....these two teams have a chance to lose 120 games this year.......They aren't good.

Exactly.BTW...Cleveland's record in their last three series against Chicago, Detroit, and KC?9-0.

Twins record in last 3 series against those opponents?3-6 (a 2nd series against Chicago within that time-frame would make it 5-8).Hopefully, the Twins can go 14-0 in our 10 remaining games against Cleveland.It's worth a try, right? :)

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#40 Mr. Brooks

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Posted 10 July 2018 - 03:39 PM

Lottery tickets sometimes hit. There is no shame in amassing as many tickets as you can.
Eduardo Escobar was once a lottery ticket that we got for trading Liriano as a rental.
What if they'd just said then, ah Liriano won't get you much, maybe some future utility C prospect, might as well not bother trading him?
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