Jump to content

Providing independent coverage of the Minnesota Twins.
Subscribe to Twins Daily Email
Photo

Article: Real Deal: What Would It Take To Get J.T. Realmuto?

alex kirilloff
  • Please log in to reply
252 replies to this topic

#41 olivia11

olivia11

    Cedar Rapids

  • Members
  • 97 posts

Posted 10 July 2018 - 06:58 AM

If the proposed trade is Romero + Kirilloff + Graterol for Realmuto, I'm definitely not making that trade.

 

It's really a decision between the following options: 

 

Option 1: 

-5 years of control of Romero

-top end, trending up prospects in Kirilloff and Graterol in the system and eventually 6 years of control (to join winning window later or be used as future trade pieces when Twins are contending for championship)

-Jason Castro as starting catcher in 2019

-Mitch Garver as backup in 2019 (or if really don't believe in his defense, sign a defensive-first back up)

 

Option 2: 

-Realmuto for 2019 and 2020 (possibility for signing long-term but that is far from a guarantee and would likely be very expensive) 

-Jason Castro as backup catcher in 2019

 

 

I think you can make a solid argument that option 1 benefits the Twins more than option 2 does.

 

I would. Especially considering that cost-controlled young starting pitching (Romero, maybe Graterol too) is arguably the most valuable resource in baseball right now.

  • Oxtung and mazeville like this

#42 Vanimal46

Vanimal46

    Opener Poster

  • Members
  • 10,680 posts
  • LocationAustin, TX

Posted 10 July 2018 - 07:01 AM

If the proposed trade is Romero + Kirilloff + Graterol for Realmuto, I'm definitely not making that trade.

It's really a decision between the following options:

Option 1:
-5 years of control of Romero
-top end, trending up prospects in Kirilloff and Graterol in the system and eventually 6 years of control (to join winning window later or be used as future trade pieces when Twins are contending for championship)
-Jason Castro as starting catcher in 2019
-Mitch Garver as backup in 2019 (or if really don't believe in his defense, sign a defensive-first back up)

Option 2:
-Realmuto for 2019 and 2020 (possibility for signing long-term but that is far from a guarantee and would likely be very expensive)
-Jason Castro as backup catcher in 2019


I think you can make a solid argument that option 1 benefits the Twins more than option 2 does.

I would. Especially considering that cost-controlled young starting pitching (Romero, maybe Graterol too) is arguably the most valuable resource in baseball right now.


Option 1 requires a lot of hope that things work out. And you want to rely on Castro starting again after a torn ACL?

#43 alarp33

alarp33

    Member

  • Members
  • 2,180 posts

Posted 10 July 2018 - 07:03 AM

 

Option 1 requires a lot of hope that things work out. And you want to rely on Castro starting again after a torn ACL?

 

He didn't tear his ACL, are we predicting that is going to happen? 

 

I've written on here multiple times, Castro did not have a major injury, I don't get why people continue this narrative that he is completely cooked.Yes he is aging, yes he's missing most of this year. But his health is not a factor in 2019

Edited by alarp33, 10 July 2018 - 07:03 AM.

"The game has changed since I've entered, it's for bright, energetic negotiators moreso than anything I possess." - Terry Ryan 2007


#44 USAFChief

USAFChief

    Anyone got a smoke?

  • Twins Mods
  • 22,032 posts
  • LocationTucson

Posted 10 July 2018 - 07:05 AM

Prospects. 

 

We didn't need to add bullpen help for the last umpteen years, either, because we had all that can't-miss reliever talent in the minor leagues just waiting to be harvested.

 

An overabundance, actually. There wouldn't even be room on the 25 man roster for all that talent.

 

 

  • Mike Sixel and caninatl04 like this

Cutting my carbs...with a pizza slicer.


#45 USAFChief

USAFChief

    Anyone got a smoke?

  • Twins Mods
  • 22,032 posts
  • LocationTucson

Posted 10 July 2018 - 07:06 AM

 

He didn't tear his ACL, are we predicting that is going to happen? 

 

I've written on here multiple times, Castro did not have a major injury, I don't get why people continue this narrative that he is completely cooked.Yes he is aging, yes he's missing most of this year. But his health is not a factor in 2019

A catcher with knee surgury serious enough to miss almost an entire season, and health isn't a factor in 2019??

  • Jerr likes this

Cutting my carbs...with a pizza slicer.


#46 Vanimal46

Vanimal46

    Opener Poster

  • Members
  • 10,680 posts
  • LocationAustin, TX

Posted 10 July 2018 - 07:07 AM

He didn't tear his ACL, are we predicting that is going to happen?

I've written on here multiple times, Castro did not have a major injury, I don't get why people continue this narrative that he is completely cooked. Yes he is aging, yes he's missing most of this year. But his health is not a factor in 2019


Meniscus. I don't understand your logic. The rehab is taking 5-6 months and he's missing the rest of the season. That's not a major injury?
  • Broker likes this

#47 alarp33

alarp33

    Member

  • Members
  • 2,180 posts

Posted 10 July 2018 - 07:08 AM

 

A catcher with knee surgury serious enough to miss almost an entire season, and health isn't a factor in 2019??

 

He had arthroscopic surgery in May. He will be fully recovered by Sept or Oct. No, his health will not be a factor (in regards to this surgery).People here clearly con't understand the type of injury / surgery he had, and that's fine. But let's not make stuff up like his return is a question next year

"The game has changed since I've entered, it's for bright, energetic negotiators moreso than anything I possess." - Terry Ryan 2007


#48 alarp33

alarp33

    Member

  • Members
  • 2,180 posts

Posted 10 July 2018 - 07:10 AM

 

Meniscus. I don't understand your logic. The rehab is taking 5-6 months and he's missing the rest of the season. That's not a major injury?

 

It will be around 4 months of pretty easy rehab, it's a very minor surgery.He'll be totally cleared by doctors a solid 5-6 months before Spring Training. 

 

No, it's not a major surgery.  

 

- someone who had the same surgery last October (and has had 6 other knee surgeries)

"The game has changed since I've entered, it's for bright, energetic negotiators moreso than anything I possess." - Terry Ryan 2007


#49 USAFChief

USAFChief

    Anyone got a smoke?

  • Twins Mods
  • 22,032 posts
  • LocationTucson

Posted 10 July 2018 - 07:10 AM

 

He had arthroscopic surgery in May. He will be fully recovered by Sept or Oct. No, his health will not be a factor (in regards to this surgery).People here clearly con't understand the type of injury / surgery he had, and that's fine. But let's not make stuff up like his return is a question next year

Oh he'll return.

 

But let's not pretend we can guarantee there will be no effect on a guy who makes his living squatting on that knee for 4 hours a day.

  • Vanimal46 likes this

Cutting my carbs...with a pizza slicer.


#50 alarp33

alarp33

    Member

  • Members
  • 2,180 posts

Posted 10 July 2018 - 07:16 AM

 

Oh he'll return.

 

But let's not pretend we can guarantee there will be no effect on a guy who makes his living squatting on that knee for 4 hours a day.

 

He could get hit by a car tomorrow crossing the street. Of course there's no guarantee to health. But why are people pretending he IS going to have an effect? Catchers have arthroscopic surgery all the time. They come back perfectly fine all the time. 

 

People are confusing him being out for this season as having had a major surgery and that's simply not the case

"The game has changed since I've entered, it's for bright, energetic negotiators moreso than anything I possess." - Terry Ryan 2007


#51 Tibs

Tibs

    Senior Member

  • Members
  • 1,191 posts
  • LocationDenver

Posted 10 July 2018 - 07:31 AM

I'm not a fan of this trade. To start with, the catcher offensive stats would be a lot better if Bobby Wilson hadn't been so terrible. He is clearly not part of the plans after this season. Also, the Twins have too many question marks for this trade to make sense.

 

Who is playing 1B next year? Who is playing 2B?

 

What if Buxton and Kepler don't develop offensively? What about Sano?

 

I think it is safe to assume Romero is in the plans to be in the rotation next year. Who takes his spot? How does the rotation get better?

 

I also don't like the idea of giving up those kinds of prospects for a catcher. People say Romero is one pitch away from needing TJ again. Well, Realmuto is one foul tip off the mask away from never being the same offensively again (see: Joe Mauer). 

  • alarp33, Twins33, Oxtung and 4 others like this
I couldn't be a player because of bad eyesight, so I decided to be an umpire instead.

#52 Andrew Thares

Andrew Thares

    Cedar Rapids

  • Twins Writers
  • 155 posts

Posted 10 July 2018 - 07:38 AM

If the Twins were in a window that they knew was only going to be open for the next couple of years I would be all for this move, but personally I don't think that is the case for the Twins. With the way the organization is shaping up, I think the best chance for the Twins to be serious contenders is during the 2020-2022 window when all of these young prospects start coming up to support the young core that is at the majors now.

  • alarp33 and SF Twins Fan like this

#53 jorgenswest

jorgenswest

    Senior Member

  • Members
  • 3,837 posts

Posted 10 July 2018 - 07:43 AM

If the proposed trade is Romero + Kirilloff + Graterol for Realmuto, I'm definitely not making that trade.
 
It's really a decision between the following options: 
 
Option 1: 
-5 years of control of Romero
-top end, trending up prospects in Kirilloff and Graterol in the system and eventually 6 years of control (to join winning window later or be used as future trade pieces when Twins are contending for championship)
-Jason Castro as starting catcher in 2019
-Mitch Garver as backup in 2019 (or if really don't believe in his defense, sign a defensive-first back up)
 
Option 2: 
-Realmuto for 2019 and 2020 (possibility for signing long-term but that is far from a guarantee and would likely be very expensive) 
-Jason Castro as backup catcher in 2019
 
 
I think you can make a solid argument that option 1 benefits the Twins more than option 2 does.
 
I would. Especially considering that cost-controlled young starting pitching (Romero, maybe Graterol too) is arguably the most valuable resource in baseball right now.


I agree. I don’t want to part with Lewis. However wouldn’t every teams option 1 look better? The Twins would never try to acquire that top tier player in trade.

#54 USAFChief

USAFChief

    Anyone got a smoke?

  • Twins Mods
  • 22,032 posts
  • LocationTucson

Posted 10 July 2018 - 07:54 AM

 

If the Twins were in a window that they knew was only going to be open for the next couple of years I would be all for this move, but personally I don't think that is the case for the Twins. With the way the organization is shaping up, I think the best chance for the Twins to be serious contenders is during the 2020-2022 window when all of these young prospects start coming up to support the young core that is at the majors now.

Not to pick on you or make this personal, but I feel like I could have read this exact post five years ago, speaking about 2016-2018 as "the window." When all that young talent reaches the majors and is dominating.

 

And four years ago about 2017-2019 as "the window."

 

etc etc etc

 

I think the better option is to build your own window, rather than waiting for a window to build itself. Not to mention there's no guarantee you'll have trade opportunites available in 2020, or the assets to acquire such trade opportunities if they do exist.

 

 

  • Carole Keller, Rigby, Vanimal46 and 1 other like this

Cutting my carbs...with a pizza slicer.


#55 alarp33

alarp33

    Member

  • Members
  • 2,180 posts

Posted 10 July 2018 - 07:59 AM

 

 

 

I think the better option is to build your own window, rather than waiting for a window to build itself. Not to mention there's no guarantee you'll have trade opportunites available in 2020, or the assets to acquire such trade opportunities if they do exist.

 

On the surface I don't think there's anything wrong with this statement. But in reality, trading your top assets for a Catcher does not "build a window".It makes a 72 win team a 76 win team. Way more moves need to be done to "build a window"

  • Twins33, Oxtung, SwainZag and 3 others like this

"The game has changed since I've entered, it's for bright, energetic negotiators moreso than anything I possess." - Terry Ryan 2007


#56 Vanimal46

Vanimal46

    Opener Poster

  • Members
  • 10,680 posts
  • LocationAustin, TX

Posted 10 July 2018 - 08:00 AM

Not to pick on you or make this personal, but I feel like I could have read this exact past five years ago, speaking about 2016-2018 as "the window." When all that young talent reaches the majors and is dominating.

And four years ago about 2017-2019 as "the window."

etc etc etc

I think the better option is to build your own window, rather than waiting for a window to build itself. Not to mention there's no guarantee you'll have trade opportunites available in 2020, or the assets to acquire such trade opportunities if they do exist.


That's because you did read those posts in past years.

I'm going to fill you in on a dirty little secret. If you keep pushing out the timeline 3 years from now, no one will notice!

It's also the beauty of prospect reports. Prospects are more mysterious and intriguing if they're 3 years from their 'ETA'
  • USAFChief and beckmt like this

#57 alarp33

alarp33

    Member

  • Members
  • 2,180 posts

Posted 10 July 2018 - 08:04 AM

This is maybe a topic for a new thread. But people seem very hung up on Realmuto. Why has no one brought up trading for DeGrom or Syndergaard right now? I don't think the returns the Mets would get from either of them will be all that different than the return needed for Realmuto.  

 

Doesn't an Ace to go with Berrios, Romero and Gibson go a longer way to building a real contender next season?

  • Thrylos, Twins33, 70charger and 7 others like this

"The game has changed since I've entered, it's for bright, energetic negotiators moreso than anything I possess." - Terry Ryan 2007


#58 USAFChief

USAFChief

    Anyone got a smoke?

  • Twins Mods
  • 22,032 posts
  • LocationTucson

Posted 10 July 2018 - 08:06 AM

 

On the surface I don't think there's anything wrong with this statement. But in reality, trading your top assets for a Catcher does not "build a window".It makes a 72 win team a 76 win team. Way more moves need to be done to "build a window"

If Buxton and Sano, with the current MLB youngsters and high minors help, are not the answer, there is no window.

 

If they are real, the window is now.

 

The perfect storm of misfortune that is 2018 shouldn't cloud the picture of whether or not the Twins should plan on 2019-2020 as being the time to go for it.

 

It's a no-lose situation. Either you added to a good team needing a catcher, or you added a good, tradeable catcher to a team that wasn't going to contend anyway for the foreseeable future and can be dumped at next year's deadline for a similar haul.

  • Carole Keller, markos, Rigby and 2 others like this

Cutting my carbs...with a pizza slicer.


#59 Vanimal46

Vanimal46

    Opener Poster

  • Members
  • 10,680 posts
  • LocationAustin, TX

Posted 10 July 2018 - 08:06 AM

This is maybe a topic for a new thread. But people seem very hung up on Realmuto. Why has no one brought up trading for DeGrom or Syndergaard right now? I don't think the returns the Mets would get from either of them will be all that different than the return needed for Realmuto.

Doesn't an Ace to go with Berrios, Romero and Gibson go a longer way to building a real contender next season?


I would love to acquire either one of those pitchers.

#60 alarp33

alarp33

    Member

  • Members
  • 2,180 posts

Posted 10 July 2018 - 08:09 AM

 

If Buxton and Sano are not the answer, there is no window.

 

If they are real, the window is now.

 

 

So you are confident they are real? You want to trade for Realmuto now it seems. While 1 is in A ball and 1 is in AAA, that is a heck of a gamble to make. 

 

BTW - I don't disagree if they both figure it out, there could be a window next season. But there is no way I am taking the gamble of making a monster trade like this now. If that means missing out on Realmuto, oh well. 

 

For what its worth I'd also probably make Lewis untouchable, which may take you out of the running for a Realmuto anyways

Edited by alarp33, 10 July 2018 - 08:12 AM.

  • SF Twins Fan and Andrew Thares like this

"The game has changed since I've entered, it's for bright, energetic negotiators moreso than anything I possess." - Terry Ryan 2007




Also tagged with one or more of these keywords: alex kirilloff