Jump to content

Providing independent coverage of the Minnesota Twins.
Subscribe to Twins Daily Email
Photo

Article: Prioritizing Trade Candidates for the Deadline

brian dozier fernando rodney lance lynn kyle gibson
  • Please log in to reply
103 replies to this topic

#21 Tomj14

Tomj14

    Chattanooga Lookouts

  • Members
  • 506 posts

Posted 06 July 2018 - 09:57 AM

 

 

The top 3 players in the article should be gone. Dozier goes, up comes Gordon.

 

Are we as fans really ready to see Gordon? He has a worse OPS in AAA then guys we want cut in the majors?

IMO he is a guy us fans are going to love to hate if he isn't really good.

  • Sconnie, gagu and Minny505 like this

#22 nclahammer

nclahammer

    Cedar Rapids

  • Members
  • 51 posts

Posted 06 July 2018 - 10:03 AM

We can't afford to trade good starting pitching, so I say Kyle Gibson is a keeper right along with Eduardo Escobar, who I pencil in as starting at 3B next year with Miguel Sano starting at 1B,

  • LA VIkes Fan, jun, caninatl04 and 1 other like this

#23 djvang

djvang

    Cedar Rapids

  • Members
  • 82 posts

Posted 06 July 2018 - 10:30 AM

I've always thought Mauer would be a fantastic fit for Fenway Park. He hasn't been the same hitter since those fly balls that landed in the first row in LF at the Dome became outs at Target Field. Those balls would be over or off the wall at Fenway.Would he waive his no-trade clause for a chance at a World Series with the Red Sox?

  • Sconnie, Broker and caninatl04 like this

#24 djvang

djvang

    Cedar Rapids

  • Members
  • 82 posts

Posted 06 July 2018 - 10:31 AM

 

 

This greatly undervalues Gibson. He's healthy, and made an adjustment that worked last year. He would net at least one top 75 player and a high variance flyer. That first player would be in the Twins top three prospects.

It also over values Dozier. They couldn't get that for him when he was good, and had years of control left. They'll be lucky to get one guy in their top ten, as many here and nationally predicted would happen when they didn't trade him before. Rightly or wrongly.

I also think Lynn would net a top 200 player, around tenth in the Twins'list.

I wouldn't have said this a year ago but, keep Gibson.

  • Jerr and jun like this

#25 Blake

Blake

    Super Duper Senior Member

  • Members
  • 5,083 posts
  • LocationBakersfield CA

Posted 06 July 2018 - 10:33 AM

I think everyone needs to be on the table when it comes to trade discussions.

 

The team has under-performed and Twins players need to realize that no one is sacred. It may be the only way to wake the players up.

 

Granted, I don't think players should be given away but if a good offer is made, then make the trade.

  • beckmt likes this

#26 SadMinnySportsFan

SadMinnySportsFan

    Elizabethton

  • Members
  • 16 posts

Posted 06 July 2018 - 11:12 AM

I think, considering the Twins have pieces in place to be a contender but just about everything that can go gone wrong has in 2018, that they should hold on to Gibson and Escobar. These guys should be in their future plans and can help a turn around next year. everyone else on the list agree trade 'em.

  • jun, Dman and NewClearHarley like this

#27 Danchat

Danchat

    Pro Bowl Armchair QB

  • Members
  • 3,878 posts

Posted 06 July 2018 - 11:24 AM

I've always thought Mauer would be a fantastic fit for Fenway Park. He hasn't been the same hitter since those fly balls that landed in the first row in LF at the Dome became outs at Target Field. Those balls would be over or off the wall at Fenway. Would he waive his no-trade clause for a chance at a World Series with the Red Sox?

The Red Sox traded for Steve Pearce a week ago and they already have Mitch Moreland. I don’t think they’ll need Mauer.
  • Sconnie likes this

#28 Vanimal46

Vanimal46

    Opener Poster

  • Members
  • 10,306 posts
  • LocationAustin, TX

Posted 06 July 2018 - 11:24 AM

I wouldn't have said this a year ago but, keep Gibson.


I'm right there with you. Problem is are we going to say keep Gibson in June 2019? I don't have any confidence saying that.

It's possible he is experiencing a Charlie Morton-like improvement that's sustainable through his early 30s. But I've been burned time and time again by Gibby.
  • Twins33 likes this

#29 tarheeltwinsfan

tarheeltwinsfan

    Senior Member

  • Members
  • 705 posts

Posted 06 July 2018 - 11:25 AM

The Twins need a young, healthy major league above average defensive, average offensive catcher. For a number of years, year after year, we searched for an above average SS...now we need an above average catcher.

  • gagu likes this

#30 nicksaviking

nicksaviking

    Billy G.O.A.T

  • Twins Mods
  • 12,470 posts

Posted 06 July 2018 - 11:41 AM

When I read this list and the write-ups it reinforces why this has been a really frustrating season. Our players have no value on the open market. The market has no home town bias, no history with these players and thus they tend to be interested in worth - and that is not much. You list is not longer because others like Pressly and Kepler have been so bad they have zero value. Of course we do have a 38 year old relief pitcher.


Most of these guys all have frustratingly low trade value, but this is a bonanza compared to the absolute dearth of tradable assets in Gardenhire's final years when one could only find a Justin Morneau sapped of nearly all utility as a firstbaseman or a clearly lost and flailing Francisco Liriano to move.

We're not finding franchise altering trade pieces to shop, but the fact that there are 7 listed players plus an "others" section shows that the teams Gardenhire was losing with were much more devoid of talent than the one that Molitor is losing with.
  • howieramone2, wsnydes and caninatl04 like this

#31 nicksaviking

nicksaviking

    Billy G.O.A.T

  • Twins Mods
  • 12,470 posts

Posted 06 July 2018 - 11:47 AM

 

This greatly undervalues Gibson. He's healthy, and made an adjustment that worked last year. He would net at least one top 75 player and a high variance flyer. That first player would be in the Twins top three prospects.
 

 

I agree, but I wouldn't be surprised if other teams tried to place his value using his spotty history.

 

If so, I'd hang on to him and look to move him in the offseason after a full year of proving his worth (fingers crossed) or hang on to him if they are ready for a managerial overhaul in 2019 and another stab at contention.

  • Mike Sixel and Twins33 like this

#32 Fritzderkat

Fritzderkat

    Cedar Rapids

  • Members
  • 67 posts
  • LocationPlymouth, MN

Posted 06 July 2018 - 11:49 AM

Agreeing here with SadMinny.

I could see dumping anyone else but Rosario and Hildenberger.

Too bad they have nothing to offer for Realmuto.

As a species we are not highly evolved


#33 Vanimal46

Vanimal46

    Opener Poster

  • Members
  • 10,306 posts
  • LocationAustin, TX

Posted 06 July 2018 - 11:52 AM


Too bad they have nothing to offer for Realmuto.


They have players to offer. 4 prospects on top 100 lists. Lewis being the gem of the organization.

The question remains is it smart to give up the assets necessary to make the trade? Not sure if I can answer that anymore given how badly this season has gone.
  • howieramone2 likes this

#34 joefish

joefish

    Junior Member

  • Members
  • 37 posts

Posted 06 July 2018 - 11:59 AM

Is it possible for a team to have this many expendables, and expect them to be any more successful than what we are doing right now?
  • caninatl04 likes this

#35 caninatl04

caninatl04

    Chattanooga Lookouts

  • Members
  • 520 posts

Posted 06 July 2018 - 12:36 PM

I've always thought Mauer would be a fantastic fit for Fenway Park. He hasn't been the same hitter since those fly balls that landed in the first row in LF at the Dome became outs at Target Field. Those balls would be over or off the wall at Fenway.Would he waive his no-trade clause for a chance at a World Series with the Red Sox?

I’m sure he’d love a chance to win his first playoff series. He can always return next year,

#36 Vanimal46

Vanimal46

    Opener Poster

  • Members
  • 10,306 posts
  • LocationAustin, TX

Posted 06 July 2018 - 12:39 PM

I’m sure he’d love a chance to win his first playoff series. He can always return next year,


If he cared about that, he would have asked for a trade years ago.

Without knowing him personally, it sure seems like all he wants to do is play for his home state's team, and be close to his family.
  • Twins33 and wsnydes like this

#37 caninatl04

caninatl04

    Chattanooga Lookouts

  • Members
  • 520 posts

Posted 06 July 2018 - 12:41 PM

Keep Gibson. Otherwise, could someone name the 2019 opening day rotation? And as I’ve asked before, aside from the Yankees maybe wanting Gibson, does anyone have any suggestions on potential counter parties? Also, by sheer numbers, there will be a lot more selling teams than buyers

#38 Mike Sixel

Mike Sixel

    Now living in Oregon

  • Members
  • 26,712 posts

Posted 06 July 2018 - 12:44 PM

 

Keep Gibson. Otherwise, could someone name the 2019 opening day rotation? And as I’ve asked before, aside from the Yankees maybe wanting Gibson, does anyone have any suggestions on potential counter parties? Also, by sheer numbers, there will be a lot more selling teams than buyers

 

the Brewers, the Cubs, the Angels (not likely now), Seattle (not sure they have the players), Atlanta, Philly.....so, ya, the list of playoff teams that could use him is long, actually.

 

And, that doesn't count anyone that thinks they are a playoff team next year.

 

How do people propose getting better if they won't trade guys under control next year? And by better, I mean MUCH better, over the long haul.

  • Twins33, wsnydes, caninatl04 and 1 other like this

One of the best opening day rosters in years. Now go get 'em.


#39 caninatl04

caninatl04

    Chattanooga Lookouts

  • Members
  • 520 posts

Posted 06 July 2018 - 12:49 PM

By my estimation, the five AL playoff teams are pretty much decided. The sixth team is the A’s who are 8 games out. In the NL, by contrast, there are maybe 10 teams still in it. So, look for the ten AL out of contention teams selling to the 10 in contention NL teams. Any proposed trades?
  • Dman likes this

#40 PDX Twin

PDX Twin

    Chattanooga Lookouts

  • Members
  • 612 posts
  • LocationPortland, Oregon

Posted 06 July 2018 - 01:00 PM

So ... controversial point here:

 

There are some advantages to the American system of trading players rather than buying and selling for cash as is the norm in world football. (Principally, it limits the ability of a rich owner to acquire players without giving any up.) But there are serious disadvantages.

 

Monetary economists argue that the advantage of money transactions over barter is the elimination of a "double coincidence of wants." Under barter (as in MLB), we not only have to find a seller with something we want, but he must want something we have. Only a few teams are interested in a 2B and they may not have the ideal trade pieces that the Twins would want for Dozier, for example.

 

One way in which this impacts the Twins currently is the inability to use multiple small sales to finance one big purchase. For example, suppose that we were able to sell 4 players (Dozier, Lynn, Duke, and Rodney, for example) for $5m each. We could then use that money to fund a $20m purchase (Realmuto?). The numbers are made up, but you probably get the idea.

 

Under the current system, no one wants to pick up 4 useful but not stellar players that we could offer (especially a team like Miami). So although we may have sufficient assets to obtain a star, the transaction technology prevents us from doing so. This means that (as per my earlier post) we are left with trading away each of our "little" pieces for other little pieces like non-elite prospects.

 

All of the proposed moves discussed in the article seem to me unlikely to make the Twins better in 2019 and beyond. We are shuffling off little pieces we don't need for someone else's little pieces they don't need. Under a monetary system, we could sell multiple resources that have higher value to others than to us and pool the proceeds to buy a difference-maker.

  • Mike Sixel and nicksaviking like this

It's great to get out of the cellar ... as long as you bring something with you.




Also tagged with one or more of these keywords: brian dozier, fernando rodney, lance lynn, kyle gibson