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Article: Front Office Flop for the Twins?

minnesota twins derek falvey thad levine
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#21 nicksaviking

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Posted 05 July 2018 - 05:56 PM

I like the improvements from the starting pitchers, specifically the strikeout numbers. Anyone involved with that accomplishment gets kudos from me. I'm not much impressed with anything else. What puzzles me is why they've clearly tried to increase the velocity and strikeouts with the starters but continue to go out of their way to avoid that with the bullpen additions.

Also, I really don't like this Falvine stuff, these are two different people and I don't think they really had more than a casual relationship prior to their hirings. I don't know, and I'm not sure if anyone as a fan knows, what responsibilities each have, but we should. If Levine isn't getting the job done, he should go. In my opinion he should be on a short leash if he's doing most of the traditional GM duties. These aren't the Wonder Twins, one isn't required for the other to be effective.
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#22 operation mindcrime

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Posted 05 July 2018 - 06:00 PM

Why am I unable to like or quote any of these comments? It's very frustrating!
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#23 Mike Sixel

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Posted 05 July 2018 - 06:02 PM

 

Why am I unable to like or quote any of these comments? It's very frustrating!

 

trying to distract you from being frustrated by the actual team, I'd guess. consider it a feature!

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One of the best opening day rosters in years. Now go get 'em.


#24 Sconnie

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Posted 05 July 2018 - 06:13 PM

Why am I unable to like or quote any of these comments? It's very frustrating!

why did the chicken cross the road?

To show the skunk it could be done!

:)
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#25 BJames

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Posted 05 July 2018 - 06:50 PM

Total failure of all three - Front Office, Manager, Players = 90 Losses

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#26 jimmer

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Posted 05 July 2018 - 06:52 PM

 

Total failure of all three - Front Office, Manager, Players = 90 Losses

I'd say player development has to shoulder some blame too.

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#27 alarp33

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Posted 05 July 2018 - 07:19 PM

 

Feels like over half the time I'm scratching my head at their decisions. Think about how many service days have been wasted the last 3 years on Justin Haley, Tyler Kinney, Phil Hughes, Breslow, Belisle, etc.

We've been playing with essentially 23 or 24 players throughout their tenure.

 

I'm as confused as anyone why Belisle is on the active roster right now, but some of these examples? 

 

Phil Hughes spent like 6 weeks in the rotation from april to mid may last year, who were the other options at the time? He then spent like 5 more weeks for the rest of the season on the active roster. He had a bloated contract and was given a chance. They cut bait fairly early on this year - earlier than I expected this cheap ownership to allow. 

 

Haley was on the active roster for like 4 weeks. 19 games for Kinley. Bad pitching staffs (historically bad is what they inherited) are going to have bad pitchers on it. 

 

Also, I don't think we should be penalizing them for the roster 3 years ago considering this is the 2nd season they've led the Twins.

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#28 Vanimal46

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Posted 05 July 2018 - 08:14 PM

I'm as confused as anyone why Belisle is on the active roster right now, but some of these examples?

Phil Hughes spent like 6 weeks in the rotation from april to mid may last year, who were the other options at the time? He then spent like 5 more weeks for the rest of the season on the active roster. He had a bloated contract and was given a chance. They cut bait fairly early on this year - earlier than I expected this cheap ownership to allow.

Haley was on the active roster for like 4 weeks. 19 games for Kinley. Bad pitching staffs (historically bad is what they inherited) are going to have bad pitchers on it.

Also, I don't think we should be penalizing them for the roster 3 years ago considering this is the 2nd season they've led the Twins.

Throw a dart for someone who was a better option than Hughes... He was on the 25 man roster for 2 months in 2016, 2+ months in 2017, and another month in 2018 before cutting the cord.

Haley spent 4 weeks on staff, then another 6 weeks on the DL, and jettisoned off the roster on July 14th. A lot of time for someone not worth a spot on the 40 man.

All of the examples I mentioned are from the Falvine era.

We also didn't touch upon Breslow, who spent 3+ months in the bullpen with poor results.

Overall that's a lot of time they could have used trying out different players. And potentially not losing players that have gone on to pitch on other MLB teams.

Edited by Vanimal46, 05 July 2018 - 08:14 PM.

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#29 alarp33

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Posted 05 July 2018 - 08:16 PM

 

Throw a dart for someone who was a better option than Hughes... He was on the 25 man roster for 2 months in 2016, 

 

Falvey / Levine were not here in 2016. 

 

Also, Hughes was owed $39 million entering 2017 (thanks Terry Ryan). There was 0 chance he was going to be cut prior to the season. 

Edited by alarp33, 05 July 2018 - 08:22 PM.

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#30 Platoon

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Posted 05 July 2018 - 08:23 PM

There is no doubt that the injuries, and the Polanco suspension hurt greatly. But there are other issues which have made changes seem necessary. Some decisions were impactful, and some were more a symbol of the disfunction. The Belisle one being the most recent. Garver. I am not a Garver fan, but nothing is lost by seeing if he cannot become a usable tool behind the plate eventually, at least an offensive oriented one. We have innings and opportunity to evaluate pitchers and position players, and instead we are constantly trotting out dead end vets. As for Molitor I would never have resigned him, his teams don't respect him, you can tell that because they make no effort to improve in the basics, nor are they made to. But I think the hope that Molitor is gone at the end of the year are awfully optimistic. When the owners got your back, and you have two years left on your contract, it will be hard for Falvine to move him. I don't really believe that Molitor and the FO view how MLB rosters should be built, or handled. And that may be the biggest problem this team has, along with the appearance that Molitor has way to much input into roster decisions. (See Belisle). Either that or they are giving him enough rope to hang himself?
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#31 Thrylos

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Posted 05 July 2018 - 08:45 PM

 

Throw a dart for someone who was a better option than Hughes... 

 

That's too easy.Fernando Romero

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#32 alarp33

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Posted 05 July 2018 - 08:51 PM

That's too easy. Fernando Romero


Fernando Romero who hadn’t made a start in AA yet was a better option to start 2017 in the rotation?
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#33 EddieMatthews

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Posted 05 July 2018 - 08:52 PM

This is Total System Failure - The Sequel.  

 

Castro - DL, Mauer - Concussion?, Dozier - Where is his bat?, Polanco - PEDs, Sano - A-ball, Kepler - ???, Buxton - Not is toe, he wasn't hitting before the toe injury.  Rosario -well, not total failure.  Pitching is a crapshoot.  No Santana, Hughes, Duffey.

 

What are we getting from the manager and coaches?  The farm?  The front office?  

 

Did we get an upgrade on the sandwiches or beer this year?  

 

Total System Failure - The Sequel. 


#34 wavedog

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Posted 05 July 2018 - 09:33 PM

I agree on the player development/coaching. Why are many of the players falling below their career averages - what about the horrible base running. We changed several coaches at the major league and minor league level and we seemed to take a step back. How could Sano and Buxton regress with no sign that they get back to what they have already accomplished in the majors.
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#35 Rosterman

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Posted 05 July 2018 - 09:36 PM

First of, they came in at the end of a season, but got to do the draft, but still inherited a largely homegrown department of players personnel. Plus, Pohlad wanted Molitor kept.

 

The main job didn't become a shared presidency of the organization, so he sill has to report to someone who wants to sell advertising, fill the seats with season ticket holders, and do anything possible to make sure the team looks and sounds better than it may be.

 

Some decent drafting. And then a winning season in 2017 and a Manager of the Year. We saw them clean house in development of the imnor leagues, sign lots of good draft picks, play the international bonus money and such.

 

Unfortunately, some longtime guys just moved around in the front office, you can't fire a manager of the year even though 2017 wasn't THAT good, and because it looked like they were a possible contender, you scrap the 4-5 year plan and get the go ahead to spend more than you have ever seen the Twins spend before to sell more tickets and maybe conquer a weak division.

 

Happily they didn't spend on longterm contracts, their low-ball offers to promising guys who had yet to prove themselves were rejected, and somehow a lack of leadership from the dugout and possibly the field staff, combined with injuries and slowed progress by TOP prospects is selling a disaster that is far from what anyone expected with the free agent signings of a starter, a trade for another capable arm, three vet additions to the pen, a strength signing at DH

 

I feel the front office was given five years to turn things around, hopefully sooner, but still...in their own way. So, any pieces that aren't contributing to 2020 and 2021 are moot, in the grand scheme of things, and many of the current players at the major league level still under control and in ALL levels of the minors are the true future of this team. Once they know what they can kinda expect, they can move from there and spend money.

 

But they had to derail a bit for 2018. Keep Molitor. Temporary patch holes with some decent free agent (temporary) signings as well as fill the upper minors with lotsa (failed) minor league free agents.

 

The smoke-and-mirrors needed to sell tickets worked for this season, which should be moderately successful after the money bin of 2017 (the Twins budgeted for a much worse attendance than they got last season, and remember...they controlled the selling of full price tickets when the Twins were hot at season's end and few tickets were bargained on StubHub). Unfortunately (or fortunately) with the way things are going, those fans that want to go to a Twins game will be able to go for $5 in August and September.

 

If there is one big fear, and maybe they are justified in playing with veterans like Belisle and Motter and Wilson, is that until the team dropped out-of-sight, they didn't want to fill the roster with farmhands NOT yet on the roster who might not be able to play out a COMPETITIVE season. If your team isn't competitive, then you throw rookies out there for more than a day callup and have them take lumps, within reason. On the plus side, glad to see them extend their control over slumping Buxton and Sano and hopefully they will both take time to reflect on their talents IN THE MINORS.

 

Again, the new front office was looking at 2020 and 2021 for really making steam. Even the guys who have another season (Odorizzi and Gibson, for example) could be viable trade candidates for future pieces, as the chances of either signing on for longterm after THIS season are probably slim to none.

 

So, because of the disaster of 2018, don't get ANY high hopes for a turnaround in 2019. It will be a rebuilding team with prospects given the chance to do or die. Maybe a longer leash. But they will be there in droves and the payroll will probably be the lowest ever in 2019 dollars for the Twins franchise since.......

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#36 mngopherguy

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Posted 05 July 2018 - 10:10 PM

 

There is no doubt that the injuries, and the Polanco suspension hurt greatly. But there are other issues which have made changes seem necessary. Some decisions were impactful, and some were more a symbol of the disfunction. The Belisle one being the most recent. Garver. I am not a Garver fan, but nothing is lost by seeing if he cannot become a usable tool behind the plate eventually, at least an offensive oriented one. We have innings and opportunity to evaluate pitchers and position players, and instead we are constantly trotting out dead end vets. As for Molitor I would never have resigned him, his teams don't respect him, you can tell that because they make no effort to improve in the basics, nor are they made to. But I think the hope that Molitor is gone at the end of the year are awfully optimistic. When the owners got your back, and you have two years left on your contract, it will be hard for Falvine to move him. I don't really believe that Molitor and the FO view how MLB rosters should be built, or handled. And that may be the biggest problem this team has, along with the appearance that Molitor has way to much input into roster decisions. (See Belisle). Either that or they are giving him enough rope to hang himself?

 

We haven't seen enough of Garver behind the plate?  

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#37 jokin

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Posted 05 July 2018 - 10:12 PM

 

We haven't seen enough of Garver behind the plate?  

 

No.

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"forcing Twins fans to endure more bitter, baseless, and tiresome cheap shots about the Twins FO."


#38 mngopherguy

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Posted 05 July 2018 - 10:13 PM

 

Throw a dart for someone who was a better option than Hughes... He was on the 25 man roster for 2 months in 2016, 2+ months in 2017, and another month in 2018 before cutting the cord.

Haley spent 4 weeks on staff, then another 6 weeks on the DL, and jettisoned off the roster on July 14th. A lot of time for someone not worth a spot on the 40 man.

All of the examples I mentioned are from the Falvine era.

We also didn't touch upon Breslow, who spent 3+ months in the bullpen with poor results.

Overall that's a lot of time they could have used trying out different players. And potentially not losing players that have gone on to pitch on other MLB teams.

 

With the front office picking rule 5 players, and all the guys they've claimed over they time here, shows me they are not that high on the minor league players and are doing anything they can to supplement them.

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#39 mngopherguy

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Posted 05 July 2018 - 10:15 PM

 

No.

 

I have as a starter and the organization seems to agree.The kid stabs at almost every pitch.If we want him on the roster. he's a backup catcher, DH, maybe 1st base.The problem right now is his hitting isn't worth it .

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#40 jokin

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Posted 05 July 2018 - 10:25 PM

I have as a starter and the organization seems to agree. The kid stabs at almost every pitch. If we want him on the roster. he's a backup catcher, DH, maybe 1st base. The problem right now is his hitting isn't worth it .


I agree about his flaws. But it has been evident since Polanco, then Castro went down, the Twins 2 key young player busts, Dozier and Mauer flailing and/or hurt, and that Santana first went down and that now, may never return to previous form... that this was a lost season.

They've been grooming Garver for 6 seasons now, rather than completely give up and pigeonhole his ceiling, why not let him learn as he goes for a few months? The regular ABs might help consistencies in his swing, mature his approach to ML pitching- he has shown glimmers of an all-field contact-emphasis hitting philosophy, and since he's caught most of the Twins young pitchers at some point over the last 5 years, let him take his lumps in a lost season and make a more informed opinion later on rather than just pigeonholing him as a back-up. And in favor of proven less-than-mediocrity, Bobby Wilson? Mind-boggling.

If Wilson has veteran catching tools, at 35, then he should be mentoring Garver behind the scenes, with Garver getting 2/3rds of the playing time, definitely not Wilson.

Edited by jokin, 06 July 2018 - 09:16 AM.

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"forcing Twins fans to endure more bitter, baseless, and tiresome cheap shots about the Twins FO."




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