Jump to content

Providing independent coverage of the Minnesota Twins.
Photo

Article: The Rise and Fall of Miguel Sano

miguel sano
  • Please log in to reply
127 replies to this topic

#41 gocgo

gocgo

    Member

  • Member
  • 1,606 posts

Posted 27 June 2018 - 12:10 PM

 

THere was a lot of blowback about "questioning his character" when people made the observation that Sano was out of shape a few months ago.Can that please stop?YOu don't get out of shape working hard and being a go-getter.I wasn't watching him this winter, but I will bet he lived a little too high on the hog this past winter and who can blame him?He grew up with nothing and now he's enjoying the spoils of a life in the major leagues.At least half of this is on the Twins.

 

Remember when he got suspended for the home run trot back when he was in New Britain?I always thought it was more about other things than him taking his time rounding the bases after a home run.The Twins went out of their way to make a point to him for "not respecting the game" as an indirect way to send a message to him about other areas of his game.Heaven forbid they call him out for his work ethic, or lack of a decent one.You do that and you become someone with as much status as a Trump supporter.

 

What is wrong with saying the kid needs to refocus and work harder?What is wrong with telling the kid that he lost his way?I was in my early 20s once and I needed some people to get in my face in order to keep me on the path.No shame in that.

We kind of go out of our way on this board of avoiding political talk.Please respect that.

  • djvang likes this

Mind your own biscuits and life will be gravy.


#42 Fritzderkat

Fritzderkat

    Cedar Rapids Kernels

  • Member
  • 81 posts
  • LocationPlymouth, MN

Posted 27 June 2018 - 12:23 PM

Dump Sano and leave Buxton in the minors until such time (if ever) he can verify that in tearing it up over an established period of time he has absolutely earned another shot at major league pitching. If he doesn't, dump him, too.

I can remember a time when with Sano, Buxton and (as a sort of after-thought) Eddie Rosario, they were considered the core of what many were calling the best minor league system in baseball--or at least one at the head of the class in potential. Twins fans patiently hung their hats on that promise. Now they're left with this.

  • Jerr likes this

As a species we are not highly evolved


#43 LA VIkes Fan

LA VIkes Fan

    Junior Member

  • Member
  • 1,743 posts

Posted 27 June 2018 - 12:30 PM

 

30 games is absolutely still a small sample size. Also in that 30 day period his K rate and BB rate are nearly perfectly in line with career averages, but his BABIP is around .100 points lower

I disagree, but OK , let's look at the season as a whole. 255 ABs, .220/.308/.400 (.708). Or go back to 2017, 511 ABs - .235/.309/.424 (.734).Or 2016, 396 ABs - .243/.312/.425 (.737).Or his career, 1169 ABS, .234/.309/.417 (.727).I wish/hope Max makes it as much as the next guy but the empirical evidence is that he was a below average and below replacement level hitter in 2016 and he has gotten Worse since then, not better. His defense is above average, which helps, but not a whole lot. He turned 25 in February so there's still a chance he'll become an average or better MLB player but he simply isn't close to that now. 

 

I wouldn't give up on Kepler but the question is where and how do you develop him so he improves. It's not happening at the MLB level. Makes one wonder if a trip to AAA or even AA (wherever the instruction is better) might be in order. Keeping him where he is hasn't worked for the last 2.5 seasons and seems unlikely to work in the future. 

  • Sconnie likes this

#44 Shane Wahl

Shane Wahl

    Senior Member

  • Member
  • 6,042 posts

Posted 27 June 2018 - 12:36 PM

Sorry, but he never should have been demoted. The whole thing with him is stupid.

  • Thrylos likes this

#45 Monkeypaws

Monkeypaws

    Senior Member

  • Member
  • 2,342 posts

Posted 27 June 2018 - 12:41 PM

Well, look at the bright side - neither were given an extension when they were looking like the next big thing.

 

They have it all to work for.

  • Jerr likes this

#46 USAFChief

USAFChief

    Bad puns. That's how eye roll.

  • Moderator
  • 25,359 posts
  • LocationTucson

Posted 27 June 2018 - 01:18 PM

Sorry, but he never should have been demoted. The whole thing with him is stupid.


Just let him flail away?
  • SQUIRREL, luckylager, Jerr and 3 others like this

Cutting my carbs...with a pizza slicer.


#47 Number3

Number3

    Ft Myers Miracle

  • Member
  • 390 posts

Posted 27 June 2018 - 01:18 PM

Miguel Sano is from a country where the average "worker" wage is about $200.00/month. He is given a signing bonus of $3mil+ and has been paid close to 5mil total counting low-mid 6 figure salary. As such he is already set for life in his home country and will always be a star there. So the real question is, what are his priorities and how much does desire does he have to excel in MLB if he actually has to work for it?

 

No more complicated than that.

 

Making the Twins great again lol.

  • djvang likes this

#48 Loosey

Loosey

    Non-Roster Invitee

  • Member
  • 1,456 posts

Posted 27 June 2018 - 01:34 PM

If it weren't for the Indians struggling earlier this year this year could already be "total system failure" part 2.That being said the Indians have won 7 of their last 9 and the Twins are falling rapidly in the standings.So by mid-July if things haven't changed this will be part 2.


#49 SQUIRREL

SQUIRREL

    Rally SQUIRREL!!!!

  • Moderator
  • 24,866 posts

Posted 27 June 2018 - 02:13 PM

 

 

 

What is wrong with saying the kid needs to refocus and work harder?What is wrong with telling the kid that he lost his way?I was in my early 20s once and I needed some people to get in my face in order to keep me on the path.No shame in that.

Nothing at all. But that's not what was being said. What was being said was he needed to stop feeding at the buffet trough and he needed to stop being lazy and he needed to stop just expecting things to happen. Those types of character issues questions are out of bounds, because those are all speculative and disrespectful and, frankly, not helpful in finding solutions. But saying needs to refocus and figure it out and be in better condition ... absolutely. And that's what he's in Fort Myers to do. Maybe there are other issues at hand with his level of discipline, both in diet and workouts, that do feed into what he needs to change (no pun intended with the word 'feed') ... but I think those can be addressed without outright being disrespectful by saying things that I mentioned above without painting the most negative picture of his personal character.

  • Thrylos and Sconnie like this

A rose by any other name would smell as sweet. But a skunkweed will always be a skunkweed and instantly recognizable. 


#50 SQUIRREL

SQUIRREL

    Rally SQUIRREL!!!!

  • Moderator
  • 24,866 posts

Posted 27 June 2018 - 02:13 PM

 

Sorry, but he never should have been demoted. The whole thing with him is stupid.

Again I'll ask ... why do you think this? I'm seriously asking ... why do you think this is stupid?

  • Jerr and Danchat like this

A rose by any other name would smell as sweet. But a skunkweed will always be a skunkweed and instantly recognizable. 


#51 Number3

Number3

    Ft Myers Miracle

  • Member
  • 390 posts

Posted 27 June 2018 - 02:33 PM

You are right; it can't possibly be stupid given the geniuses that run the Minnesota Twins. Only those with a true vision into the future and insight unknown to mere mortals does this move to A Ball where the competition will bring out his true ability appreciate this make sense.

 

Unfortunately, if he hits .500 and 1 home run every 6 ABs, what does it prove? If he flops at A Ball, then what? If/when he comes back up what route does he take, straight back to the Majors or AA, AAA then majors? Then, how long of a leash once he gets back up? "Well, he has to get used to Major League pitching". (Paul Molitor or replacement. Aug. 10, 2018).


#52 Jerr

Jerr

    Senior Member

  • Member
  • 2,779 posts

Posted 27 June 2018 - 02:46 PM

 

The fact that for a period of time Buxton and Sano were the #1 and #3 prospects in all of baseball, and that now #1 just can't hit Big League pitching and #3 just can't figure out how to be a pro is about the most maddening and unbelievable turn of events in what has been a long a mostly frustrating career as a Twins fan.

Especially with all their hype before even in the MLB.

And always remember, life is not measured by the number of breaths we take, but by those moments that take our breath away.

George Carlin

#53 Ncgo4

Ncgo4

    Senior Member

  • Member
  • 537 posts

Posted 27 June 2018 - 02:58 PM

All this talk about “speculation” about Sano’s character being out of line is correct. Let’s stick with facts. He’s a way, way over weight young man. That’s a very bad thing. It affects were, if anywhere, he’ll be able to play in the field. It’s been the situation for several years. He’s now suffered a major injury and has a metal rod in his leg. This exacerbates his weight issue.

What’s Sano going to do about it? We don’t know, but the Twins have gotten him into the best possible situation in which he can get his life under control. Let’s hope he does so, but it will not take too much time to figure ou haw he’d doing.

Bottom line a 325 lb DH’er that smacks 40 dingers a year with 100 rbi’s Isn’t a bad thing. But a 225 lb all star 3rd basemen with a rocket arm is a whole lot better. Both are better than a 375 lb 26 year old former MLB player living in this DR.

Right now I have no idea which he will choose to be.
  • h2oface likes this

#54 TheLeviathan

TheLeviathan

    Twins News Team

  • Member
  • 16,930 posts

Posted 27 June 2018 - 03:02 PM

 

Sano doesn't seem to care about his lack of performance or his weight. He's made enough money to go back to the DR and live like a king for the rest of his life. He seems satisfied with that. But the specter of David Ortiz hangs over him. Out-of-shape, oft-injured, under-performing guy gets dumped and comes back to haunt the team that dumped him. If the jolt of getting sent back to Class A doesn't change him maybe getting released or traded will.

 

Buxton on the other hand seems to care too much. Lack of performance eats him up. If only their attitudes could be merged.

 

You don't know any of this.This is the kind of post about Sano that really bothers me.Buxton too.

 

You know nothing about them as young men, what they think, what they care about, and how they work.Criticizing them as people like that is quite reprehensible IMO.

  • Thrylos, Mike Sixel, diehardtwinsfan and 4 others like this

#55 h2oface

h2oface

    Lifelong since '61

  • Member
  • 4,636 posts
  • LocationTralfamadore

Posted 27 June 2018 - 04:12 PM

 

The fact that for a period of time Buxton and Sano were the #1 and #3 prospects in all of baseball, and that now #1 just can't hit Big League pitching and #3 just can't figure out how to be a pro is about the most maddening and unbelievable turn of events in what has been a long and mostly frustrating career as a Twins fan.

 

#1 can't handle AAA pitching so far this year, either. And #3 can't handle high A yet, either. Oh... but let us be kind...... it is a small sample size....:banghead:

 

Personally, I think they both just need better, more effective coaching at the MLB level. That is the pitching they need to learn to hit.


#56 h2oface

h2oface

    Lifelong since '61

  • Member
  • 4,636 posts
  • LocationTralfamadore

Posted 27 June 2018 - 04:20 PM

 

Nothing at all. But that's not what was being said. What was being said was he needed to stop feeding at the buffet trough and he needed to stop being lazy and he needed to stop just expecting things to happen. Those types of character issues questions are out of bounds, because those are all speculative and disrespectful and, frankly, not helpful in finding solutions. But saying needs to refocus and figure it out and be in better condition ... absolutely. And that's what he's in Fort Myers to do. Maybe there are other issues at hand with his level of discipline, both in diet and workouts, that do feed into what he needs to change (no pun intended with the word 'feed') ... but I think those can be addressed without outright being disrespectful by saying things that I mentioned above without painting the most negative picture of his personal character.

 

Two ways to virtually say the same thing. Respect is a judgement. One that doesn't focus.... is lazy. One way uses imagery, and the other seems to come from a suit and tie. But they both say the same thing.


#57 h2oface

h2oface

    Lifelong since '61

  • Member
  • 4,636 posts
  • LocationTralfamadore

Posted 27 June 2018 - 04:28 PM

 

This forum isn't really the place for political jabs, all over there are high class decent people supporting Trump.As someone who detested him when elected, I'm now a 100% supporter...make that 99% but still. 

 .... but let me (you) take this opportunity to be political? hmmm... especially when it is total pat on the back opinion.

 

Perhaps The Sports Bar forum is the place to discuss this high class?

http://twinsdaily.co...the-sports-bar/


#58 SQUIRREL

SQUIRREL

    Rally SQUIRREL!!!!

  • Moderator
  • 24,866 posts

Posted 27 June 2018 - 04:30 PM

 

Two ways to virtually say the same thing. Respect is a judgement. One that doesn't focus.... is lazy. One way uses imagery, and the other seems to come from a suit and tie. But they both say the same thing.

If they say the same thing, then be respectful in your posting here and don't go the disrespectful route. That was the pushback.

A rose by any other name would smell as sweet. But a skunkweed will always be a skunkweed and instantly recognizable. 


#59 yarnivek1972

yarnivek1972

    Cooperstown

  • Member
  • 6,538 posts

Posted 27 June 2018 - 04:31 PM

I disagree, but OK , let's look at the season as a whole. 255 ABs, .220/.308/.400 (.708). Or go back to 2017, 511 ABs - .235/.309/.424 (.734). Or 2016, 396 ABs - .243/.312/.425 (.737). Or his career, 1169 ABS, .234/.309/.417 (.727). I wish/hope Max makes it as much as the next guy but the empirical evidence is that he was a below average and below replacement level hitter in 2016 and he has gotten Worse since then, not better. His defense is above average, which helps, but not a whole lot. He turned 25 in February so there's still a chance he'll become an average or better MLB player but he simply isn't close to that now.

I wouldn't give up on Kepler but the question is where and how do you develop him so he improves. It's not happening at the MLB level. Makes one wonder if a trip to AAA or even AA (wherever the instruction is better) might be in order. Keeping him where he is hasn't worked for the last 2.5 seasons and seems unlikely to work in the future.


I wish I could explain Kepler. He isn’t striking out at a rate anywhere close to Sano or Buxton. He’s hitting line drives at MLB average rate. His BABIP is horrendously low. This year and career wise. I suspect shifts, but I wish someone with more knowledge and who is better at interpreting data could confirm or offer another explanation. Not hitting into shifts I think would be fixable at the MLB level. He made tremendous strides hitting lhp at the MLB level.
  • LA VIkes Fan likes this

#60 djvang

djvang

    Cedar Rapids Kernels

  • Member
  • 114 posts

Posted 27 June 2018 - 04:39 PM

 

You don't know any of this.This is the kind of post about Sano that really bothers me.Buxton too.

 

You know nothing about them as young men, what they think, what they care about, and how they work.Criticizing them as people like that is quite reprehensible IMO.

That's why I said "seem". I stated it as an opinion based on my observations, not as a fact. If that isn't allowed please let me know.

Edited by djvang, 27 June 2018 - 04:43 PM.




Also tagged with one or more of these keywords: miguel sano