Jump to content

Providing independent coverage of the Minnesota Twins.
Subscribe to Twins Daily Email
Photo

Ervin Santana Update

  • Please log in to reply
41 replies to this topic

#1 Vanimal46

Vanimal46

    Opener Poster

  • Members
  • 10,315 posts
  • LocationAustin, TX

Posted 25 June 2018 - 09:29 AM

Per Berardino, Ervin wasn't able to top 90 MPH with his fastball during his last rehab outing on Friday.

The timeline set in March was silly. Now it's looking more and more like we won't see Erv in a Twins uniform again.

https://www.twinciti...lowing-surgery/
  • nicksaviking likes this

#2 ashburyjohn

ashburyjohn

    Haighters gonna Haight

  • Twins Mods
  • 19,356 posts
  • LocationNatick, MA

Posted 25 June 2018 - 09:51 AM

To do competent roster management, a GM has to know and factor in the most optimistic recovery forecasts for injured players, so that he'll be able to return them to active duty when they become available without disrupting the roster.

 

The problem is that we fans seem to be being fed only these optimistic forecasts for every player taken off the roster. And the forecast doesn't change even when new information presents itself that obviously could have a bearing.

 

I'm not asking for the unknowable. I'm not asking for only worst-case either; obviously absolute worst-case is nearly always "career threatening". I'm asking for realistic ranges, which change as new events occur and new information surfaces.

  • Blake, alarp33, nicksaviking and 2 others like this

A slim chance equals a fat chance, yet a wise man and a wise guy are opposites.


#3 nicksaviking

nicksaviking

    Billy G.O.A.T

  • Twins Mods
  • 12,472 posts

Posted 25 June 2018 - 10:01 AM

 

Per Berardino, Ervin wasn't able to top 90 MPH with his fastball during his last rehab outing on Friday.

The timeline set in March was silly. Now it's looking more and more like we won't see Erv in a Twins uniform again.

https://www.twinciti...lowing-surgery/

 

That's fine by me. Considering how the season is turning out I'd hope that means there will be extra opportunity for Gonsalves, Mejia, May or Littell to sand off some of their rough edges at the MLB level and get prepared to help next year on a contending team. Romero too if the team hasn't already decided to wind him down for the year.


#4 Vanimal46

Vanimal46

    Opener Poster

  • Members
  • 10,315 posts
  • LocationAustin, TX

Posted 25 June 2018 - 10:09 AM

That's fine by me. Considering how the season is turning out I'd hope that means there will be extra opportunity for Gonsalves, Mejia, May or Littell to sand off some of their rough edges at the MLB level and get prepared to help next year on a contending team. Romero too if the team hasn't already decided to wind him down for the year.


Given the team's love and loyalty for veterans don't hold your breath! Erv could get a cup of coffee and start a few games in September...

#5 ashburyjohn

ashburyjohn

    Haighters gonna Haight

  • Twins Mods
  • 19,356 posts
  • LocationNatick, MA

Posted 25 June 2018 - 10:10 AM

Given the team's love and loyalty for veterans don't hold your breath! Erv could get a cup of coffee and start a few games in September...

I like Erv, he's been a gamer, and if the Twins plan to not exercise their 2019 option and cut him loose, I don't have a problem with letting him have a couple of starts to showcase himself for someone else next season.

  • Blake, gunnarthor, nicksaviking and 5 others like this

A slim chance equals a fat chance, yet a wise man and a wise guy are opposites.


#6 Vanimal46

Vanimal46

    Opener Poster

  • Members
  • 10,315 posts
  • LocationAustin, TX

Posted 25 June 2018 - 10:26 AM

To do competent roster management, a GM has to know and factor in the most optimistic recovery forecasts for injured players, so that he'll be able to return them to active duty when they become available without disrupting the roster.

The problem is that we fans seem to be being fed only these optimistic forecasts for every player taken off the roster. And the forecast doesn't change even when new information presents itself that obviously could have a bearing.

I'm not asking for the unknowable. I'm not asking for only worst-case either; obviously absolute worst-case is nearly always "career threatening". I'm asking for realistic ranges, which change as new events occur and new information surfaces.


There were signs and information all the way back in March where the early May timeline looked questionable.

Berardino wrote and I posted an article about Erv not being able to make a fist post surgery in mid-March. Even at that time no one seemed to raise an eyebrow that the time line was extremely optimistic.

The signs were there. The media chose to ignore it and didn't question the early May timeline.

#7 Carole Keller

Carole Keller

    It’s all in the eyes of the beholder.

  • Twins Mods
  • 21,182 posts

Posted 25 June 2018 - 10:50 AM

Given the team's love and loyalty for veterans don't hold your breath! Erv could get a cup of coffee and start a few games in September...


Wait a minute here. You’re faulting then for liking their veterans? I recall a different thread where you were chastising people for wanting to move on from veterans, ie Dozier. If you’re going to be critical at least be consistent and not opportunistic to suit your frustration.
  • Doomtints likes this

“May we teach our children that speaking out without the fear of retribution is our culture’s new north star.” ~Laura Dern
 


#8 spycake

spycake

    Senior Member

  • Members
  • 14,060 posts

Posted 25 June 2018 - 10:51 AM

 

Berardino wrote and I posted an article about Erv not being able to make a fist post surgery in mid-March.

I, for one, believed the front office when they said that was due to Ervin's pacifism, as opposed to any kind of physical limitation.

  • ashburyjohn, Blake, Mike Sixel and 1 other like this

#9 Mike Sixel

Mike Sixel

    Now living in Oregon

  • Members
  • 26,727 posts

Posted 25 June 2018 - 10:58 AM

There were signs and information all the way back in March where the early May timeline looked questionable.

Berardino wrote and I posted an article about Erv not being able to make a fist post surgery in mid-March. Even at that time no one seemed to raise an eyebrow that the time line was extremely optimistic.

The signs were there. The media chose to ignore it and didn't question the early May timeline.


The media covering this team is pretty much useless for getting the truth, if it is inconvenient for the team. I don't even bother anymore they are so in the pocket of ownership and the front office. Imo, of course.
  • Platoon likes this

One of the best opening day rosters in years. Now go get 'em.


#10 gunnarthor

gunnarthor

    Senior Member

  • Members
  • 9,099 posts

Posted 25 June 2018 - 11:02 AM

Bummer for the Twins and Santana. Do we know if this is like early ST, before the pitchers get arm strength back or is this more akin to Phil Hughes lost velocity?


#11 nicksaviking

nicksaviking

    Billy G.O.A.T

  • Twins Mods
  • 12,472 posts

Posted 25 June 2018 - 11:04 AM

 

Given the team's love and loyalty for veterans don't hold your breath! Erv could get a cup of coffee and start a few games in September...

 

That's all true and it's most apparent in their acquisitions of relievers and outfielders and middle infielders of dubious talent qualifications. Maybe I'm wrong, but there tend to be less usable starters available on the waiver wire. If true, then their hand might be forced.


#12 Thrylos

Thrylos

    Twins World Champions in 2019

  • Members
  • 9,615 posts
  • LocationLehigh Valley, PA, USA
  • Twitter: thrylos98

Posted 25 June 2018 - 11:07 AM

 

I like Erv, he's been a gamer, and if the Twins plan to not exercise their 2019 option and cut him loose, I don't have a problem with letting him have a couple of starts to showcase himself for someone else next season.

 

The problem with this is that he will be taking starts away from May and Pineda, both of whom figure in the Twins 2019 plans and need the work badly

Edited by Thrylos, 25 June 2018 - 11:07 AM.

  • laloesch, tarheeltwinsfan, KirbyDome89 and 1 other like this
-----
Blogging Twins since 2007 at The Tenth Inning Stretch
http://tenthinningst...h.blogspot.com/
twitter: @thrylos98

#13 Vanimal46

Vanimal46

    Opener Poster

  • Members
  • 10,315 posts
  • LocationAustin, TX

Posted 25 June 2018 - 11:09 AM

Wait a minute here. You’re faulting then for liking their veterans? I recall a different thread where you were chastising people for wanting to move on from veterans, ie Dozier. If you’re going to be critical at least be consistent and not opportunistic to suit your frustration.


It was a response to Nick's post. Because I like some veterans means I have to like all veterans and support every decision?
  • SwainZag, Sconnie, KirbyDome89 and 1 other like this

#14 ashburyjohn

ashburyjohn

    Haighters gonna Haight

  • Twins Mods
  • 19,356 posts
  • LocationNatick, MA

Posted 25 June 2018 - 11:41 AM

The problem with this is that he will be taking starts away from May and Pineda, both of whom figure in the Twins 2019 plans and need the work badly

A team has to balance a lot of things. If you never want good free agents to consider your team again, feel free to tell a guy you're about to part ways with, "you're dead to us." :)

  • Kelly Vance and Major Leauge Ready like this

A slim chance equals a fat chance, yet a wise man and a wise guy are opposites.


#15 Sconnie

Sconnie

    Touch ‘em all!

  • Members
  • 3,788 posts
  • LocationNW Wisconsin

Posted 25 June 2018 - 11:46 AM

A team has to balance a lot of things. If you never want good free agents to consider your team again, feel free to tell a guy you're about to part ways with, "you're dead to us." :)

none of Santana, May or Pineda are even close to healthy yet. Let’s cross these bridges when we get to them individually....
  • ashburyjohn, USAFChief, Blake and 2 others like this

#16 yarnivek1972

yarnivek1972

    Minnesota Twins

  • Members
  • 4,239 posts

Posted 25 June 2018 - 12:03 PM

none of Santana, May or Pineda are even close to healthy yet. Let’s cross these bridges when we get to them individually....


Isn’t May pitching for Rochester now?
  • Danchat likes this

#17 Thrylos

Thrylos

    Twins World Champions in 2019

  • Members
  • 9,615 posts
  • LocationLehigh Valley, PA, USA
  • Twitter: thrylos98

Posted 25 June 2018 - 12:06 PM

 

Isn’t May pitching for Rochester now?

 

Has been in the DL with shoulder issues. Not a biggie.About to get off the DL and start pitching again.

Edited by Thrylos, 25 June 2018 - 12:06 PM.

-----
Blogging Twins since 2007 at The Tenth Inning Stretch
http://tenthinningst...h.blogspot.com/
twitter: @thrylos98

#18 Number3

Number3

    Cedar Rapids

  • Members
  • 139 posts

Posted 25 June 2018 - 12:44 PM

Being an all star for the Twins is obviously the kiss of death. Look at last year's 3. One in A ball, one traded to the Nats and not doing great and 1 probably finished as a MLB player. 3 years ago Perkins came back from the all star game and basically hasn't been heard from since. And today's trivia question; who is Edwardo Nunez? Answer; Twins' 2016 all star. Please do not allow Escobar or Berrios or Rosario to be on this year's all star team.

  • Mike Sixel likes this

#19 spycake

spycake

    Senior Member

  • Members
  • 14,060 posts

Posted 25 June 2018 - 12:57 PM

 

Being an all star for the Twins is obviously the kiss of death. Look at last year's 3. One in A ball, one traded to the Nats and not doing great and 1 probably finished as a MLB player. 3 years ago Perkins came back from the all star game and basically hasn't been heard from since. And today's trivia question; who is Edwardo Nunez? Answer; Twins' 2016 all star. Please do not allow Escobar or Berrios or Rosario to be on this year's all star team.

Kurt Suzuki seems to have recovered from that curse nicely. :)

 

Dozier was an all-star in 2015, and while he had a poor second half that year, he did pretty well for 2016-2017.


#20 KirbyDome89

KirbyDome89

    Rochester Red Wings

  • Members
  • 1,568 posts

Posted 25 June 2018 - 01:22 PM

 

Wait a minute here. You’re faulting then for liking their veterans? I recall a different thread where you were chastising people for wanting to move on from veterans, ie Dozier. If you’re going to be critical at least be consistent and not opportunistic to suit your frustration.

I thought the fact that Dozier suddenly became expendable during the offseason was pretty ridiculous too. That doesn't mean I, or anybody else who felt the same way, are in favor of Wilson, Hale, Belisle, Petit, ect spending time on the active roster. There's a very clear distinction between those two positions....

  • Mike Sixel likes this